Dart complaints

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Mark Diener

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Apr 19, 2022, 6:53:15 AMApr 19
to Dart Misc
Is there any plans on the runtime team to address any of the isolate complaints by the author of this medium article:

https://medium.com/codex/i-hate-dart-isolates-dd7ca044d374

Be great to get some feedback if there are any plans...

Michael Thomsen

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Apr 19, 2022, 6:55:18 AMApr 19
to Dart Misc, markdi...@gmail.com
Can you elaborate on what your concerns are? What is your use case, and how do the current isolates (including the new send-and-exit support) not meet your needs? Full shared-memory multitasking can be very, very complicated...

Guyren Howe

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Apr 19, 2022, 2:32:43 PMApr 19
to mi...@dartlang.org
Dart isolates use the Actor model.

Correct parallel code with shared state is bordering on impossible to write correctly at scale. This model (far from unique to Dart, by the way; Elixir is the most well-known example, but it was recently added to Ruby, which already has threads) is widely regarded as the best solution.

Dart’s implementation is pretty nice, with automatic serialization and deserialization of values, under-the-hood use of shared state (I think that’s what 2.15 does to make it faster) and the like.

I suggest you read up on the advantages of the Actor model.

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Michael Thomsen

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Apr 20, 2022, 3:25:45 AMApr 20
to Mark Diener, Dart Misc
We're constantly working on improving all things Dart, including Isolates :-)

Yes, our concurrency docs could use a bit more detail.

For a high-level on update on isolate-and-send -- which launched in Dart 2.15 last December -- see:

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 9:59 PM Mark Diener <markdi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Michael:

Hello Michael.  My question was limited to only making query of the team if they were happy with the current state of isolates and their associated architectural decisions ore not.  I started pecking for references to save-and-exit and came across a Git ISSUE: https://github.com/dart-lang/sdk/issues/46754

Where do we read about Isolate Groups? (The docs are pretty thin with any useful description.)

I can extract fragmented GIT issue snippets and try to get a full understanding, such as the comments in issue: https://github.com/dart-lang/sdk/issues/46623

So you guys are actually working on improving isolates which MAY address the issuer of the complaints.

When do the lightweight isolates arrive in production?  (Send-and-exit for example)

Best, 

Mark




Mark Diener

Mark Diener

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Apr 20, 2022, 8:18:46 AMApr 20
to Michael Thomsen, Dart Misc
Hello Michael:

Hello Michael.  My question was limited to only making query of the team if they were happy with the current state of isolates and their associated architectural decisions ore not.  I started pecking for references to save-and-exit and came across a Git ISSUE: https://github.com/dart-lang/sdk/issues/46754

Where do we read about Isolate Groups? (The docs are pretty thin with any useful description.)

I can extract fragmented GIT issue snippets and try to get a full understanding, such as the comments in issue: https://github.com/dart-lang/sdk/issues/46623

So you guys are actually working on improving isolates which MAY address the issuer of the complaints.

When do the lightweight isolates arrive in production?  (Send-and-exit for example)

Best, 

Mark




Mark Diener


On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 4:55 AM Michael Thomsen <m...@google.com> wrote:
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