Dart Developer Survey - Help us plan for 2016

[Seth Ladd]

tldr: we love your feedback! Please lend us 2 minutes of your time and fill out this brief survey.

Dartisans new and old, we want to hear from you! Never used Dart? You can fill this out, too! (and it's even shorter for you :)

We know everyone is very busy, and we really appreciate your time.

On behalf of the Dart team, Thanks!

[Don Olmstead]

Just a nit but the "I spend too much time working around bugs/issues with Dart for the web." variant is a bit weird. All the other questions are phrased so Strongly Agree is good while that one wants a Strongly Disagree. Maybe it should be rephrased in the future?

--
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[Bob Nystrom]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Don Olmstead <don.j.o...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe it should be rephrased in the future?

"I don't spend enough time working around bugs/issues with Dart for the web."

:)

- bob

[Günter Zöchbauer]

LOL

[Kasper Peulen]

The tiny boxes didn't really allow long text, so I put here a short summary of my feedback for Dart.

One thing I love about Dart compared to javascript, is that there are not too many options. Especially in places where you don't want too many options, like how to import a library. No choice, using jquery or not, everyone just seem to use dart:html. 

Also Dart is quite opinionated in areas where things are more a matter of taste. Like the dart style guide. Or actively recommending Webstorm as editor. I like that as well. I think especially if you don't have an opinion yet about that, you can just look at what Dart recommends. And if you already have a strong opinion, you are free to use something else (some other style preferences, or use an other editor).

For javascript, there are like 20 different opinions, 20 different tastes for every tiny thing. One likes to use jquery, one doesn't like it. The other likes to style code like this, the other likes that. One like bower, the other likes to use just npm. And there is no really clear "winner", no clear "standard". As there is no javascript team that says, let's just all use npm as package manager from now on (instead of bower).

So for me, Dart feels like some kind of safe land, isolated from the horror of javascript. You want to manipulate the dom, use dart:html. You want to write a command line app ? Use args library. But... here comes my negative feedback. At this moment, there is no clear direction what kind of web framework to use with Dart. Or if you don't use such kind of framework/library, how to structure your app. In the past it seemed to be polymer. If you google for how to write a web app in dart, you get many old references to polymer. But in april, the dart team announced that angular 2 will be the recommended framework. But basicly that means that from april to now, there is no direction from the dart team how to write your web app. And I don't know when angular 2 will come out, but I think this will be the same situation for some months then.

I have some friends that are interested in building webapps/websites, but with no prior knowledge, and don't really want to spend months figuring everything out. But to be honest, I don't recommend them dart yet, because of this reason. And this is coming from a dart fanboy! What I tell them that that javascript is quite some horror, but that polymer 1 makes everything quite a little bit nicer, and it is easy to make something quite good looking with polymer 1. And that for Dart you better wait until end 2015/begin 2016.

--

Kasper

[Jan Mostert]

I quite like it that there is no framework being forced down your throat and that you have multiple options in case you do want to use a framework.
I currently build my own "framework" using nothing but dart:html, gives me exactly what I need without the extra overhead.

[Kévin Platel]

I agree with Kasper Peulen, actually i feel like "It's looks like something really awesome will happen shortly, but now i don't know exactly what to do" between angular1 and angular2 or polymer 0.16 (0.5 js version) and the coming 0.17 (1.0 js version ?) it's look like a transition period, the same thing for sky and dart on mobile, the sky framework will be web compatible ? would it be possible to create a web binding ?

I feel confident for the future of Dart, be now it's pretty hard to convince someone to go on Dart for the web for more than a simple website without the real support of the big web framework.

Kévin

[Jack Murphy]

I responded with comments similar to Kaspers. 

Here's are some additional notes: 

Places For Improvement: 

• Branding: After the Chrome VM strategy shift there's a lot of bad info floating around the web.  Dart really needs some advocacy out of Google. For me, the Dart brand is the hardest part on selling it for internal use. 

People now associate Dart with the "no chrome vm" language. When trying to sell it, you start at a deficit. This is coupled with the Angular team using TypeScript instead if Dart. 

(I think people in the community understand that the transpiled output doesn't yield the readable code required for a project like angular - but that was never widely emphasized. I dont think the web at large understand the nuances in that decision. Personally i would love to see an eventual Angular 2 fork with an implementation using the Dart Dev Compiler ) 

 

• Dartium: Simply needs an update to ensure a great debugging experience.  

Positives: 

• Angular 2 Dart is looking great. 

• There are a handful of really solid MVC server frameworks. 

• Team is super responsive on github/stackoverflow.

• WebStorm integration is getting better and better.

• The language itself is still a pleasure to work with

• async await makes me happy every time i use it

[Frank Pepermans]

Very much agreed on the branding, it is currently near impossible to sell Dart as a solution for new projects. I often get stuck in these infinite loop questions when trying to pitch it:

- Dart is confused with Typescript
- Google will abandon Dart, dropping chrome VM
- No easy escape path to drop Dart halfway through development should it die
- JS and Dart interop concerns
- Angular and Typescript is seen as another sign of Dart being dead
- Why Dart over any other language that I know that compiles to JS

[Eduardo Teixeira Dias]

I got really burned last year with AngularDart.

I sold to customers the advantages of investing early in dart:

  - AngularDart in particular and the future integrarion with polymer and paper elements.

My argument was "When Dart VM support in chrome became a reality you will be well positioned". The solutions were EComemerce B2B "we were in position to install chrome in all the customers". The other case was development of an internal ERP.

We were hammering with pré 1.0 AngularDart versions and then some insane person at google just cancelled AngularDart. 

  - No good integration with polymer.

  - No Paper Elements

  - No AngularMaterial

  - No roadmap, no nothing

Just a vague new promise "Angular2"

Dart is an excellent language but the PR mismanagement is appalling. And the Angular past decisions are bad signs for dart developers.

I continue playing with angular2 "Dart" and with Dart on the server Redstone.

But I'm not selling it for any one, at least for now...

Let's see how Angular2 + AngularMaterial will look like from a Dart developer point of view.

Please Google stop the insane "U" turns with Dart strategy.

Saudações,

Eduardo Teixeira Dias

------------------------------------------

Tendencies Consultoria Ltda.

Tel: 11 3828-1281

Cel: 11 9 9246-4192

[Joel Trottier-Hébert]

This x1000000. Thanks Eduardo for wording exactly what I think.

I continue playing with angular2 "Dart" and with Dart on the server Redstone.

But I'm not selling it for any one, at least for now...

I can't wait to be selling it again though.

---

Joel

[Daniel Joyce]

The death of the Chrome Dev Editor has stopped development of Dart wrappers for the chrome APIs. They are buggy, and well you all know my complaints.

I am now porting my 3D printer slicer/controller to TypeScript. If I need Async/Await to bump up responsiveness I will roll in support with Traceur or other library. 

Dart is nice, but I am now 'wary' of it surviving. Its also unfamiliar enough that getting our front end dev up to speed vs TypeScript or vanilla es6 is a definite drag outside of other possible productivity benefits. We wrote the app as two backend engineers forced to do so out of immediate need, but the interop story being very rough is a pain point especially for a dev coming in and wanting to use a javascript lib to workaround android webview issues, and no such lib exists in dart.

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 10:29:22 AM UTC-4, Eduardo Teixeira Dias wrote:

I got really burned last year with AngularDart.

I sold to customers the advantages of investing early in dart:

  - AngularDart in particular and the future integrarion with polymer and paper elements.

My argument was "When Dart VM support in chrome became a reality you will be well positioned". The solutions were EComemerce B2B "we were in position to install chrome in all the customers". The other case was development of an internal ERP.

We were hammering with pré 1.0 AngularDart versions and then some insane person at google just cancelled AngularDart. 

  - No good integration with polymer.

  - No Paper Elements

  - No AngularMaterial

  - No roadmap, no nothing

Just a vague new promise "Angular2"

Dart is an excellent language but the PR mismanagement is appalling. And the Angular past decisions are bad signs for dart developers.

I continue playing with angular2 "Dart" and with Dart on the server Redstone.

But I'm not selling it for any one, at least for now...

--

Daniel Joyce

The meek shall inherit the Earth, for the brave will be among the stars.

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Frank" == Frank Pepermans <fr...@igindo.com> writes:

Frank> - Dart is confused with Typescript
Frank> - Google will abandon Dart, dropping chrome VM
Frank> - No easy escape path to drop Dart halfway through development should it die
Frank> - JS and Dart interop concerns
Frank> - Angular and Typescript is seen as another sign of Dart being dead
Frank> - Why Dart over any other language that I know that compiles to
Frank> JS

I address a lot of these points in my "brief introduction to dart" from
a couple of months ago at FISL:

http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/a-brief-introduction-to-dart

Video linked from there. Maybe Seth can add this to the Dart media
page.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer...@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
Still trying to think of something clever for the fourth line of this .sig

[Don Olmstead]

I don't think it helps that there really aren't any more developer advocates for Dart running around to clear up any confusion. It seems pretty obvious there's a huge commitment internally if ads is using Dart but outside of the Dev Summit I don't really see any advocacy.

There's a Polymer summit coming up and I would bet there's no Polymer.dart presence like there wasn't with the code lab events they were doing across the country. Don't follow Angular so not sure what their level of commitment is to showing the Dart side.

Also to be honest web devs are very hostile towards Dart. I did a talk at a web dev conference on Dart and the conference let attendees rate the bubble talks and mine was pretty damn low. Managed to get it in despite that and had some really interested parties at the talk but it barely got through.

I do feel things will get much better when the dev_compiler drops as the all or nothing proposition of Dart was pretty off putting. At work I can sneak Dart in for little workflow things and demos but nothing production. If the output of dev_compiler works well that might be something I could change.

[Don Olmstead]

Oh also @Bob

"I don't spend enough time working around bugs/issues with Dart for the web."

That gives me flashbacks to pre M1. These kids don't know how easy they have it now with their async/await. Editors that are stable so you can get work done cause the analyzer doesn't start choking after a few thousands of lines of code. Debuggers that work.

Need to go do some Golang programming where you just printf all the things like when I first learned to program and didn't know what the hell a debugger was and why I'd want it ;)

[Rat Jo]

We got promise that the Dart team would put effort into generating easier to debug Js and support for js for server (nodejs), but we are still waiting and there is no sign of anything coming.

As for Google dropping Dart. I consider it as being something already done, but Dart for me is mature enough to use. I just try to not rely on pub.dartlang.com because I expect it to die any day. If Google do drop it, the language will still work, but pub.dartlang.com will be killed.

I did agree with the fact that Dart will not be integrated in Chrome, but since that news, this forum just like the language has been almost deserted.

Forever, the drop for the support of Dartium have been way to fast... Compiled Js is still a pain to debug.

[Günter Zöchbauer]

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 6:55:54 AM UTC+2, Rat Jo wrote:

We got promise that the Dart team would put effort into generating easier to debug Js and support for js for server (nodejs), but we are still waiting and there is no sign of anything coming.

As for Google dropping Dart. I consider it as being something already done, but Dart for me is mature enough to use. I just try to not rely on pub.dartlang.com because I expect it to die any day. If Google do drop it, the language will still work, but pub.dartlang.com will be killed.

I did agree with the fact that Dart will not be integrated in Chrome, but since that news, this forum just like the language has been almost deserted.

The Slack Dart channel is quite active https://dartlang-slack.herokuapp.com/ (250+ users).

Summer time was always somewhat quiet here. Much more activity here lately :)

 

Forever, the drop for the support of Dartium have been way to fast... Compiled Js is still a pain to debug.

Dartium still feels supported to me and a new Dartium roll is work in progress from what I saw in discussions in the GitHub repo.

[Cristian Garcia]

Every language is born with a dream/promise, a characteristic that will give you an advantage over any other language, this could be a capability of the VM/runtime, special syntax, and libraries. This dream is what drives users to get involved and commit to the language. Please take everything I say as a user psychology analysis and not about engineering.
 
Here is what I feel about Dart:
1. It failed on its initial promise of replacing JS when the Dart VM didn't make it into Chrome, and now its depending on the more experimental mobile development to generate enthusiasms. The easier to debug JS and new JS interop are being worked on but not a word is said.
2. It never got a "killer" framework on either client or server side. Neither Angular or Polymer have taken of in about more than a year of existence and always feel like second class citizens of their JS counterpart (Angular 2 might change this). Rails popularized Ruby, Dart doesn't have a full featured server framework (and I say this as part of the Redstone team).
3. At my job I am investigating Elixir with Phoenix, the language and the framework are written by the core team who are web developers that want to replace their current Ruby apps, they not only develop the language, they also produce all the tools they need for actual development (template system, web framework, database integration, middle ware, etc). It feels like a really integrated experience even though its a really young language. The same story occurs with C# and ASP, they have a really integrated experience. Dart has more engineers than Elixir working but less REALLY IMPORTANT libraries? Say a template system or an ORM? E.g. I currently use Mustache for Dart which is not exactly an advanced template language, not really happy about that.

Please, don't take this the wrong way. I love Dart as a language, love Redstone's architecture and my MVC plugin, with it I abandoned Dart as a replacement for JS and currently render pure html on the server, not having to compile feels a lot nicer than fighting dart2js bugs. Sadly I do not see myself using Dart in 2 years unless I could develop mobile apps with it or had to build a huge web app/game (which I don't do for a living).

[Yissachar Radcliffe]

I've given up trying to sell Dart to other developers. Dart has such a negative perception that the conversation degenerates quickly.

For my own projects I still use Dart since it makes me most productive. I wish the web framework situation would be sorted out though. Really I would be more comfortable if Dart had its own 100% pure Dart framework instead of trying to track popular JS frameworks. There would be a greater feeling of ownership, as well as more freedom to innovate, and less reliance on other projects development milestones.

[ravi teja]

@Yissachar I was wondering about the same thing. Was discussing about it here: https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!msg/web/LPJpEvh5cgU/-z88Mn5ZAQAJ

It is surprising how compatibility with JS frameworks is given more preference than leveraging strengths of Dart. IMO biggest paradox of Dart is: If you try to create a language that is better than an existing bad language but make it worse by trying to stay compatible with the bad language, how would you end up with a better language?

On 3 September 2015 at 16:58, Yissachar Radcliffe <ydrad...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've given up trying to sell Dart to other developers. Dart has such a negative perception that the conversation degenerates quickly.

For my own projects I still use Dart since it makes me most productive. I wish the web framework situation would be sorted out though. Really I would be more comfortable if Dart had its own 100% pure Dart framework instead of trying to track popular JS frameworks. There would be a greater feeling of ownership, as well as more freedom to innovate, and less reliance on other projects development milestones.

[Lex Berezhny]

What are you guys looking to get from a framework?

Can't you just use plain 'dart:html', specifically custom elements?

That's going to be super light weight and very flexible.

​

 - lex

[ravi teja]

@lex was that sarcastic? Because it sounds like, why dont we go back to 2000 BC and live in caves happily ever after :P.

--

[Lex Berezhny]

Actually, I'm not being sarcastic at all. I've built a pretty sophisticated document proposal builder using just dart:html with custom elements. I ended up with very clean, structured code.

If I remember correctly, that was the whole point of Polymer initially: to bring custom elements to all browsers. And now that most browsers support custom elements just fine (and I dart:html gives you the necessary portability to make your stuff work well on all of them).

Polymer is like a 'proprietary' version of dart:html custom elements. Why not just use the real thing? Granted, you won't get the pre-made material design elements out of the box but there are plenty of pure CSS frameworks that will give you material design ontop of your pure dart:html custom elements.

 - lex

[Varga, Dániel]

+1 for @ravi's response ;)

[Joel Trottier-Hébert]

@Lex mind showing us some code? I'd be interested in seeing that.

[Lex Berezhny]

Yeah, this subject has already been discussed a while ago, here is the old thread:

https://groups.google.com/a/dartlang.org/forum/#!searchin/misc/polymer$20structure$20without$20polymer/misc/-z_8sVp_uPY/zuHwyT0PD54J

[tatumizer-v0.2]

want to see no-framework framework?
http://facebook.github.io/react/

Note the title "A JavaScript library for building user interfaces"

React is a big deal, it really simplifies thinking about UI programming. Same concept can be ported to dart, of course.
 

[Петър Събев]

I'm sorry to see so many negative comments about Dart. So I've decided to share my thoughts and expirience. I'm developing intensively in Dart for the last two years and have a project with ~ 600 000 loc's right now (server and client - both with Dart). For me Dart gives exactly what prommised - better tool for building and managing large scale enterprise applications. The main advantage with Dart shines when your project gets bigger. If you want to build something trivial - Dart is not the best choice, but if you want to build a big enterprise level application and want to feel confident about it's architecture, maintainability and scalability I'm sure you would not go wrong with Dart. 

We should not compare Dart as a client (javascript) replacement or a tool for server side development (node.js), we should look at Dart as a complete platform for building scalable web applications.

What we have with Dart as a base is:

- great engineered language

- great development expirience

- pub and packages

- client and server side development (linux, windows, ios, soon on mobile)

- small (hope to get bigger soon) but nice community.

Dart offers the best foundation for building fully fledged web applications compared to alternatives.

About the missing of robust frameworks. I really don't see the hype around these frameworks. Why would I put such a dependency on my project? For me Dart plays the role of a framework. Using small and tightly focused libraries is the better choice for scaling and we have pub for that - use more and small dependencies for being less dependant!!! So speaking of libraries - maybe the is the main disadvantage for now - the relatively small number of libraries, but this is not a Dart failure, it just needs more time.

Scalable, productive app developmentScalable, productive app development

Scalable, productive app development

Scalable, productive app development

[Lex Berezhny]

The dart docs link in that thread is not working since it was all the way from February.

Here is the updated link to registerElement, this one function essentially replaces Polymer :-) (I am exaggerating a bit since Polymer also offers material design and a bunch of other stuff, but if you get down to basics then Polymer is essentially an "embrace and extend" version of document.registerElement()).

https://api.dartlang.org/1.12.0/dart-html/HtmlDocument/registerElement.html

[Günter Zöchbauer]

+1

The main interest in frameworks for me is fancy reusable components. This is what I expect from Polymer and Angular. I'm not a web designer and building my own components is a bad assignment of resources.

Otherwise nice summary about Dart :)

[Kasper Peulen]

I would love to see tutorials how to best manage and organise your dart web app without using a web framework !

Kasper

[Bob Nystrom]

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Don Olmstead <don.j.o...@gmail.com> wrote:

That gives me flashbacks to pre M1. These kids don't know how easy they have it now with their async/await. Editors that are stable so you can get work done cause the analyzer doesn't start choking after a few thousands of lines of code. Debuggers that work.

You should have seen things before we publicly launched. :D

- bob

[Bob Nystrom]

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Rat Jo <jora...@gmail.com> wrote:

We got promise that the Dart team would put effort into generating easier to debug Js and support for js for server (nodejs), but we are still waiting and there is no sign of anything coming.

Consistent effort is happening towards this, but it isn't very visible. It's highly dependent on DDC so there's a big stack of tech that has to be made (effectively an entirely new compiler to JS, static analysis rules, etc.) that has to work before you can do anything useful with it. It's one of those kinds of projects where for 99% of the time 0% of it works and then at the very end it surfaces and it's there.

 

As for Google dropping Dart. I consider it as being something already done, but Dart for me is mature enough to use.

Strangely enough, the Dart team is larger now than it has ever been. We obviously have lots of real problems with external adoption, but internally we are watching the amount of Dart code Googlers are writing grow very quickly.

The challenge for us now is to make Dart relevant and useful to outside users while still keeping those internal customers happy.

 

I just try to not rely on pub.dartlang.com because I expect it to die any day. If Google do drop it, the language will still work, but pub.dartlang.com will be killed.

pub.dartlang.org costs virtually nothing, so there's no reason we would take it down. Also, our internal customers rely heavily on a number of third party packages, so the existence of pub.dartlang.org is absolutely required by the people who pay Dart's bills. It's not going anywhere.

Cheers!

- bob

[Matthew Butler]

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 3:26:23 PM UTC-3, Bob wrote:

...

 

As for Google dropping Dart. I consider it as being something already done, but Dart for me is mature enough to use.

Strangely enough, the Dart team is larger now than it has ever been. We obviously have lots of real problems with external adoption, but internally we are watching the amount of Dart code Googlers are writing grow very quickly.

This is fun to hear :) 

The challenge for us now is to make Dart relevant and useful to outside users while still keeping those internal customers happy.

The DevRel dynamic seems to have changed since Dart was launch[ed/ing]. Intially Seth was very vocal in the community and spreading the gospel etc. Then jj was doing some good stuff before he departed to Twitter. But since that time, it feels that much of the DevRel stuff has been a lot quieter. I'm not sure if they're concentrating more on internal customers, or specifics with other large customers (eg WebStorm). But the quantity of information seems to be quieting.

That said the team as a whole is still very active in the community which I've always found to be one of the most appealing things about Dart. The easy accessibility to the dev team who not just use but implement many of the great things we use (and break).

 ...

Cheers!

- bob

Matt 

[Bob Nystrom]

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Matthew Butler <butler....@gmail.com> wrote:

The DevRel dynamic seems to have changed since Dart was launch[ed/ing]. Intially Seth was very vocal in the community and spreading the gospel etc. Then jj was doing some good stuff before he departed to Twitter. But since that time, it feels that much of the DevRel stuff has been a lot quieter. I'm not sure if they're concentrating more on internal customers, or specifics with other large customers (eg WebStorm). But the quantity of information seems to be quieting.

A big part of it is that, yes, more of us are focused on keeping our internal customers happy. With things like Angular2 and Sky, there is a lot of work to be done in Dart to ensure that the developers and users of those projects aren't blocked on us. A big chunk of the team is working on that. The nice thing is that kind of work also benefits the external Dart community (beyond the fact that Sky and Angular2 are themselves open source).

I also think part of it is that we have real technical work that needs to be done before we need to go out and start cheerleading for it. Drumming up more attention for Dart wouldn't help us much given that DDC, JS interop, Angular2, etc. are all still incomplete and in-progress. Once those mature, you can expect to see a lot more PR.

Cheers!

- bob

[Cristian Garcia]

Dart is a little strange/alien for non-google users because of the following aspect

There is no interest on google to build a "super" server + web framework which does x and y easier than other frameworks like z and w. I see no reason why there couldnt be a Rails/ASP/Django/Express for Dart that on top of making REST, MVC (with Dart templates) and realtime a breeze, it also auto compiles your Dart code after a files changes, takes code reusability to higher levels, has native support for JSON, has nice json configuration, scales using Isolates, has an ORM with migrations, etc. The thing is Google internally probably needs non of this, but for us who don't work on a huge web company, these commodities are what make you ship the next product quickly. Its no wonder Dart is hard to sell to outside.

[Jan Mostert]

What is the status of Polymer Dart, is it in a place where it is almost usable or is it still undergoing a lot of major changes from month to month? The pre 0.5 release was changing so fast (as expected from a pre 1.0 release) that I eventually abandoned it for Bootstrap's CSS minus the JS and Dart for the moving parts plus my own url manager and event system.
It actually feels great not being locked into a framework and Dart has so far been solid with clear migration paths in the cases where there were breaking chamges.
As somebody who haven't used Angular, I'm curious, what problems does the framework solve which is much more tedious / difficult to solve with straight dart:html?
On the server side, I'm sure there are a lot of missing libraries that will emerge over time, it would be unfair to expect everything in Dart overnight that Java had time to brew for 20 years.

[Roel Kersten]

I think it is great Dart has made this far! Key for future succes will be: dont go for optimal js interoperability but rely on js generation (new vm?), focus on mobile and developing usefull apis (nfc, wearables, blockchain, etc). most important; be clear about short and long term roadmap.

Op 1 sep. 2015 20:20 schreef "'Seth Ladd' via Dart Misc" <mi...@dartlang.org>:

tldr: we love your feedback! Please lend us 2 minutes of your time and fill out this brief survey.

Dartisans new and old, we want to hear from you! Never used Dart? You can fill this out, too! (and it's even shorter for you :)

We know everyone is very busy, and we really appreciate your time.

On behalf of the Dart team, Thanks!

[Daniel Joyce]

Interop with JavaScript needs to improve. For my personal project and due to chrome api wrapper bugs I have jumped to typescript. So far it's type system is both stricter than dart and more flexible. It catches more type errors and generating typed wrappers to existing js libs is simpler. Even scalajs makes it easier to wrap JavaScript. The current dart tooling is painful in comparison. From the syntax needed to call js to the amount of boilerplate for a wrapper.

--

Daniel Joyce

The meek shall inherit the Earth, for the brave will be among the stars.

[Anders Holmgren]

It would be great to see Dart take off in a big way inside google. Hopefully people from those teams join the community, contributing to the conversation and to packages on pub.

I would also love to see Polymer Dart take the lion share of internal polymer apps once it gets to 1.0.