Without Dart Editor, how do you update the SDK + Dartium?

[Jos Hirth]

Is this something I have to do manually now?

I'd be fine with a command line tool. I just don't want to write it myself.

[Lex Berezhny]

Given that we are still "with" Dart Editor I think it's impossible to answer your question.

I'm sure by the time "without" Dart Editor rolls around you will have the answer to your question :-)

But Dart plugin for Eclipse has the same update feature as Dart Editor, so at least there nothing will change.

On May 1, 2015 4:41 PM, "Jos Hirth" <google...@kaioa.com> wrote:

Is this something I have to do manually now?

I'd be fine with a command line tool. I just don't want to write it myself.

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[Don Olmstead]

WebStorm has the support to update, see https://plus.google.com/+SethLadd/posts/KgJDkjyQ2ku

[Jan Mostert]

On OSX I just use Brew to install updated SDKs via command line, on Linux after setting up links to the packages, a simple apt-get update and apt-get upgrade will upgrade me to the latest version of the SDK.

IntelliJ auto-updates your Dart SDK, so that should be a solution for Windows.

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Jan Vladimir Mostert
janvladimirmostert.com

[Jos Hirth]

Dartium isn't part of the SDK though. Is that just poor wording?

I also do not know how I make it check for updates. I saw that message once, but I don't know how to make it appear again. I didn't act upon it because I'm not interested in just updating the SDK.

Well, given that there is no way to disable IntelliJ's autosaving, I'll have to use something else anyways. It's a shame, really. I wasted more than a day setting it up (with colors, fonts, and everything) and finding a workaround for that stupid character encoding issue on Windows. As y'all can probably imagine, I'm mildly pissed.

Either way, there should be a convenient update method which works for everyone. No matter which editor/IDE they use.

[Kasper Peulen]

What is the problem with auto saving?

Op 2 mei 2015 01:11 schreef "Jos Hirth" <google...@kaioa.com>:

[Jos Hirth]

The problem is that it's different. I change a document, it gets marked as such, and I hit Ctrl+S if I want to keep this change. I've done this a million times in dozens of programs. I don't have to think about it. It's automatic.

Imagine one application would swap the 'F' and 'J' keys. It's kinda like that.

Or imagine you're using some 3D level editor and some 3D modelling software and one of them doesn't let you change the camera controls to the scheme you're used to. You want to look up, but you look down. You want to pan the camera, but you spin the model.

This is annoying. I don't want to use an application where something basic, which I use a hundred times a day in other applications, works differently.

All browsers use the same set of basic shortcuts for this very reason. If Chrome wouldn't use the same shortcuts as Firefox, I wouldn't use it for anything. I'm fine with either because all of the frequently used actions are performed exactly the same way.

IntelliJ's behavior is very innovative and whatever, but I don't want that. I don't want it to be a unique precious snowflake. I want it to be the exact opposite. I want it to look and behave like everything else.

[Jan Mostert]

If you're used to eclipse, you can tell IntelliJ to use eclipse shortcuts, autosaving can be turned off:

​

​

[Jos Hirth]

Have you tried it? It still saves when you switch projects or exit the application. You really can't disable it.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15604889/how-to-turn-off-automatic-saving-on-web-storm

Official JetBrains support dude says: "Save will also occur automatically on certain actions (running a configuration, IDE quit, project close, etc)."

[Jan Mostert]

To me that sounds like a fantastic feature! Why would you want to lose code when exiting the IDE, switch projects, etc?
MS Office, Open Office, all the text editors I use, control panels etc all auto save.

Auto save is the norm these days, not the exception, the only reason older applications didn't have it was due to slow disk write speed and we had fast write speed for more than 10 years already.

[Jos Hirth]

No, all other applications ask if you want to save your changes.

Komodo, Atom, Netbeans, Eclipse, Dart Editor, Photoshop, SCiTE, Brackets, Inkscape, Blender, Radiant, Visual Studio, etc. On exit, they all ask if you want save your changes if there were any.

Just because there was some change does not mean that I want to save it. Quite often, I don't.

I don't want to have to remember that I have to undo the changes in these 3 files or whatever before I close the application. I don't want to review the change history of each open file. Instead, I'd rather review the 1-2 files I didn't save yet.

By the way, I'm really not interested in saving 5 minutes per year. If I have to change how I do things, the payoff must be a lot bigger than that.

[Kasper Peulen]

> No, all other applications ask if you want to save your changes.

I think that many people use "commit" in IntelliJ, the way they would use "save" in something like, Microsoft Word. I think that IntelliJ may have made this choice as they have such a nice git intergration. 

> Just because there was some change does not mean that I want to save it. Quite often, I don't.

If you would change the word "save" to "commit", then I understand what you mean. 

> I don't want to review the change history of each open file. Instead, I'd rather review the 1-2 files I didn't save yet.

I always review my files to my latest commit, instead of reviewing it to the latest time I saved it. In fact, if you press commit (cmd-K) in IntelliJ, you get a nice dialog where you can review the changes you have made since the latest commit. I think if you change the way you use "save" to "commit", in the end you will have much more control than you would have ever had with just using save. 

If you don't push anything online, you can also very easily reset a branch to some older commit. The user interface that IntelliJ has for git is really amazing, I think it is worth investigating. If you really want to make this consistent with how you do this in other editors, you may want to change the ctr-s shortcut to "commit".

[Cristian Garcia]

Jos,

Just 'git stash' if you dont want to "save" changes. The local save doesnt mean much if you have version control.

[Jan Mostert]

Local History is another option.

IntelliJ is not going to implement an option to turn off autosave unless they are given a use-case that will convince them that it's needed, see this thread: https://devnet.jetbrains.com/docs/DOC-191

[Jan Mostert]

Also see this thread, if you only want to save one file at a time, you can use power-save: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-98513#

[Jos Hirth]

Guys, I don't care if y'all like IntelliJ's/WebStorm's auto-saving behavior.

I don't like it and since I can't disable it and since JetBrains has no interest in changing that, I have to use something else.

I shouldn't have brought it up. I was just too annoyed after having wasted that much time with setting it up. I really didn't expect that it would behave that way and that JetBrains would force this behavior on every user.

Sorry about wasting everyone's time.

So, can we please go back to the topic?

If I use Eclipse, Atom, or whatever, how do I update the SDK and Dartium?

[Jan Mostert]

Which is are you using?
On OSX it's brew update, and brew upgrade if you have set it up with brew.
Debian based Linux, if you've set it up in the apt sources, you can do apt-get update, and apt-get upgrade

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[Jan Mostert]

I meant which OS are you using, autocorrect got me there.

For OSX:

https://www.dartlang.org/downloads/mac.html

For Debian-based Linux:
https://www.dartlang.org/downloads/linux.html

[Jan Mostert]

Also, while we're on the topic, I noticed in one of the talks that you can run your dart code without using Dartium, so I tried it on normal Chrome and Firefox doing the normal pub serve and opening on localhost:8080. 

Initially it takes a couple of seconds to compile to JS, but after the first compile, every time I refresh, I get the latest code almost instantly.

If we're getting automatic incremental compilation to JS, do we still need the Dartium browser?

[Bob Nystrom]

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Jan Mostert <jan.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

Initially it takes a couple of seconds to compile to JS, but after the first compile, every time I refresh, I get the latest code almost instantly.

Right! That's because dart2js goes a lot faster once the Dart VM has had time to warm up and optimize the hot code paths inside dart2js itself.

 

If we're getting automatic incremental compilation to JS, do we still need the Dartium browser?

There's no incremental compilation going on here. It's still compiling your entire program from scratch. It's just that dart2js itself is running faster.

I too find it's surprisingly quick for some programs. But you'll find that once you program gets big enough, even a fully warmed up dart2js is still too slow for a fast iteration loop. The dev_compiler aims to give you a very quick turnaround for any program size since it can compile only the libraries that actually changed.

Cheers!

- bob

[Jos Hirth]

On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 8:26:36 AM UTC+2, Jan Vladimir Mostert wrote:

Which is are you using?

I'm on Windows. So, I can't just use apt-get or whatever. Windows doesn't have a package manager. Windows 10 will have one called "OneGet" though.

[Davy Mitchell]

The Chocolatey package manager for Windows is worth a look.

https://chocolatey.org/packages/dart-sdk

I have picked up maintaining the Dart packages- unfortunately they have a delay in moderation (2 weeks).

1.9.3 is in the queue.

Looking for a way round this though via a standalone POSH script.

Cheers,

Davy

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