I've long thought that Google needs an OS focused on modern mobile hardware with an emphasis on security/ocap and performance which unifies Android and Chrome OS, apps and web, devices from phones to tablets/2in1's to ultrabooks with a Material Design ui.
Could an actual Googler clarify things. Open means more than chucking things into github.
K.
@kc: Dart App running in container under Fuchsia inside Android planted into ChromeOS embedded in Linux?
– bob
@kc: Dart App running in container under Fuchsia inside Android planted into ChromeOS embedded in Linux?It certainly makes total sense, but I'm afraid it leaves too many questions unanswered. Where is golang in this picture? Where is WebAssembly? Will golang be implemented in WebAssembly? Or WebAssembly implemented in golang? And how about rust? System will never work unless it's written in rust (it will immediately crash on NPE or buffer overflow). I don't even mention AI bots! On what level of hierarchy do we have AI bots? There's much more room for speculation than your (simplistic) post assumes.
I would hope that will be a cloud based web OS where we do not need to update apps once installed just like the web. It should be made with Dart front-end and Go at the backed of the OS is a solid idea.Platform eventually needs language to make apps. Dart is the obvious choice for that. Google has made little progress in things like that such as Android instant apps; but we can hope something bigger.
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K.
K.
interesting. But why Dart (as a platform) is playing here?
IMHO Dart is the unifying language in Google's strategy
Don't know about Dart 2.0 but they have already Go for that - concurrent, fast and fun systems programming language. Why would they chose dart?
Modular is an experimental application platform.
It provides a post-API programming model. Rather than basing all service calls on pre-negotiated contracts between known modules, the system enables modules to call by meaning, specifying goals and semantic data types along side traditional typed function inputs and outputs, and letting the system work out how those semantic goals are satisfied and what services are employed.
It can't be.Dart is far from offering the performance needed for games, codecs, big-data/scientific apps, etc ...We can't even efficiently run 64-bits cryptography.And a Dart app will always consume at least twice as much battery as an equivalent app written in a systems language.I don't know how AoT code performs but we're missing important features at the language level to unify anything, unless Dart 2.0 brings native arithmetic, structs, allocation control, etc
I’d rather we focused harder on making writing high-quality apps easier. A scripting language, or something spiritually close, that took the best parts of Swift, but was much smaller and simpler, more supple, that ran on the Objective-C runtime — dynamic dispatch and all — would have been ideal. I could fly in that language.
void main() {
print (new Point(0, 0).distanceTo(new Point(10, 10));
}
Some speculation...Google has two operating systems - Android and Chrome OS.Both are Linux based with the Linux security/permissions architecture - process/files.Android has a further security/permissions architecture embedded in the in the Dalvik/ART runtime.Chrome OS is based on the Web security model.Google has created a unified design language - Material Design.Android and Chrome OS/Web were retrofitted with the Material Design ui language.Flutter is designed from the ground up with Material Design in mind.Flutter went with the Dart VM - and can be packaged as an apk on Android (and also iOS .ipa).On Chromebooks things get a bit too inception-esque. Flutter/Dart running in an Android apk/runtime on ChromeOS.Fuchsia OS is thus a replacement for Chrome OS - where the UI is Material Design - and Flutter/DartVM are first class 'native'.The Fuchsia security/permission architecture is object capability (ocap) - to get beyond the Linux/Android/Web models.The Fuchsia kernel is LK based and wrapped in an ocap layer - Magenta.Fuchsia will initially target mobile devices bigger than phones - tablets/2in1's/Ultrabooks - Pixel C and Chromebooks. (*)Flutter apps can thus target Android, iOS and Fuchsia.(*) Everything is mobile.
mckillop 7 hours ago [-]
Purple - A system with high performance graphics, low-latency input, and a beautiful UI.
Pink - An incredibly modular system for developers and users.
I would say they're trying to make an OS out of Chrome's underlying architecture, bringing it closer to the metal by removing/optimizing some kernel boundaries.That would be a performance boost for Chrome itself.Eventually, they may implement some services usually found in the Linux Kernel (such as Network or Native_viewport) in user-space as regular mojo services.Maybe LK/Magenta is a micro-kernel, and everything runs in user-space as services, even filesystems, drivers, etc ... improving security.The presence of a dart_content_handler may indicate first-class support for Dart apps (faster instantiation and closer to metal?), otherwise they would just run the DartVM as a regular application, I suppose. I don't know much about Flutter's internals, so maybe it's just Flutter's Dart handler ported to Fuchsia.Everything here is possibly wrong, but I don't think it will matter anytime soon. Not until Fuchsia can run pretty much anything on the app store.They're not creating another ecosystem, not when they already have Android's and Chrome's and when they're trying to merge those.(My speculative 2 cts for the article)
This repository contains System UI bits for the Fuchsia operating system.
A wild armadillo appears.
Intriguing:I've long thought that Google needs an OS focused on modern mobile hardware with an emphasis on security/ocap and performance which unifies Android and Chrome OS, apps and web, devices from phones to tablets/2in1's to ultrabooks with a Material Design ui.Is this what Fuchsia is? An experiment?If Dart is a first class player on this platform then all to the good.K.
this must be interesting. https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/sysui . Updated 10 minutes ago. lol
On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 7:05:07 PM UTC+5:30, kc wrote:Intriguing:I've long thought that Google needs an OS focused on modern mobile hardware with an emphasis on security/ocap and performance which unifies Android and Chrome OS, apps and web, devices from phones to tablets/2in1's to ultrabooks with a Material Design ui.Is this what Fuchsia is? An experiment?If Dart is a first class player on this platform then all to the good.K.
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But its google, so your just have to get used to the way things work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxoVRTwlNgAlso i believe google dont want to drop their pants for commercial / competitive reasons.Letting MS, Apple know what the game plan is ruins all the fun & potential to capture market share.
* We are not planning to add monads in Dart 2.0.
You mean besides Future. ;)
On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 4:59:00 PM UTC+1, Bob wrote:On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Joe Blue <joeb...@gmail.com> wrote:But its google, so your just have to get used to the way things work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxoVRTwlNgAlso i believe google dont want to drop their pants for commercial / competitive reasons.Letting MS, Apple know what the game plan is ruins all the fun & potential to capture market share.
I can't speak for the rest of Google, but I don't believe the latter influences what we say about the roadmap for the language itself.If we were to say, "In Dart 2.0, we're adding monads," (*) I don't think all of a sudden the TypeScript and Swift folks would go, "Quick! We need to get monads in before they do!"
Re roadmap- I wasn't talking specifically about Dart 2.0. Rather about how Android/Chrome/Flutter (and Dart) are part of the future re a unification story both for users and devs.
Sensible developers will not take a bet on Dart or Flutter unless there is some clear guidance on where things are going.Also a problem for Flutter/Dart is the requirement for a Mac (pricey) or Linux (tricky). Google ideally should offer an OS on which dev can be done in a structured but fun/lightweight manner. Andromeda or Fuchsia?
--K.
On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 11:32:02 AM UTC+1, krupal shah wrote:Is Andromeda a separate initiative from Fuchsia?Dev's who may want to invest time in Dart/Flutter need a roadmap from someone senior at Google.On Oct 4th will Hiroshi Lockheimer mention Dart/Flutter as part of Googles client side strategy. A demo of Flutter Gallery on Android, iOS and preview Andromeda? With Fuchsia mentioned as longer term thing.