Dart for the entire web

[Jacob Goodson]

So what does this mean exactly?  Dropping the Dart vm will speed up development in other areas?   I admit, this is disappointing to me but I did kinda expect it

[Dan Grove]

This actually opens up a bunch of opportunities for us. Integrating with Chrome was a very large effort, and by focusing on compiling to JavaScript, we'll be able to invest that energy into areas like mobile & server, in addition to the improvements to Dart->JavaScript compilation that we talked about in the post. 

Dan

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Jacob Goodson <submissio...@gmx.com> wrote:

So what does this mean exactly?  Dropping the Dart vm will speed up development in other areas?   I admit, this is disappointing to me but I did kinda expect it

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[Justin Fagnani]

In particular, the Dart team can now focus JS interop for compiled code only, rather than for compiled code and VM-VM interop. This is a win-win-win: it will make development of the interop system easier, simplify interop for users, and cross-language calls are faster in the compiled case.

[Jim Trainor]

+1 for the announced strategy.

Thank-you Dart team! 

Question: Presumably Dartium remains in the picture because it an essential Dart development tool?

[Kevin Moore]

Question: Presumably Dartium remains in the picture because it an essential Dart development tool?

Absolutely. We are committed to fast dev turn-around with great debugging.

[Cristian Garcia]

ᐧ

I guess I few (like me) are a little sad inside. However, its a good (political) move, at least it might take of some of the tension with the industry that Dart created for wanting to replace JS.

With features like the eventloop (yes, I think async is better), async/await, enums, generics, dynamic, annotations, its terse sintax, being flexible when needed and formal as a good practice, Dart might become really popular for programming servers. I've been comparing my server code with code in other frameworks and I am pretty happy (I user Redstone).

I am curious as to exactly HOW the teams at Google use Dart? Do they use it on the server? Do they use GAE? Do they use Angular or Polymer? Given that Google its both producer and consumer of Dart, it might be nice to know some specific use cases.

[Thomas Schranz]

Really happy about this new direction. Will make it easier for me to explain Dart (& how to use it).

Looking fwd to dart2js improvements and incremental compilation (omnomnom).

Congratulations to the whole team for letting the cat out of the bag. Can't wait for the 1.9 release, feels great so far \o/

[Yegor]

I am curious as to exactly HOW the teams at Google use Dart? Do they use it on the server? Do they use GAE? Do they use Angular or Polymer? Given that Google its both producer and consumer of Dart, it might be nice to know some specific use cases.

While we can't talk about all Google projects publicly, a bunch is listed here.

[Kevin Moore]

We'll have a bunch more details at our summit. Both internal and external users.

If you didn't get a ticket, the whole thing will be streamed live.

https://www.dartlang.org/events/2015/summit/

Angular and Polymer are the big tools that internal folks are using. Most of the work is browser focused.

--

[Benjamin Strauß]

To be honest i am also a bit disappointed. Does this announcement only affect the integration into chrome? Will dartium and the standalone vm still get the same amount of attention as today? What happens with new standards like PointerEvents or features like MetaClasses? Will they be added to dartium?

[Rat Jo]

Seriously, what you guys was expecting with supporting dart inside chrome? Your application will not work with ie, safari, firefix,... which by the way is still the biggest user base for most website.

[Jacob Goodson]

To be fair, they are the ones that gave us that expectation.  It is not like we envisaged it from the happy land of leprechauns.  Regardless, I am probably going to move on from dart now and use a language that is exciting.  I was here for the performance in the first place.

[kc]

Looks like the Dart team are building a compiler with an ES6 backend generating readable code output.

https://github.com/dart-lang/dev_compiler/blob/master/README.md

This could be seen as giving Google the ability to walk away eventually.

K.

[Günter Zöchbauer]

I have the impression some people are quite desperate for signs that Google will drop Dart.
The Dart team has started to work and made lot of progress on a lot of cool stuff the last months. You will have a hard time trying to interpret this all as sign against Dart ;-)

[kc]

Desperate for a joined-up technical and strategic vision from Google. Especially on the client.

Because MS are busy rebuilding the death star.

[Jim Trainor]

>> Because MS are busy rebuilding the death star.

Please decode?!

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:34 AM, kc <kevin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Desperate for a joined-up technical and strategic vision from Google. Especially on the client.

Because MS are busy rebuilding the death star.

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[Rat Jo]

death star = spartan.

I use Dart that because it give me an easier language in which to program and at the same time, it allow me to access the best of js library out there without having to rewrite them. I want Dart to make my life easier with large scale app just like small app. Also, I want Dart to take care of all the difference between language. I was a little bit disappointed when they decided to drop ie9, but I do understand that ie has always been a pain to work with. I will prefer that it provide a flag with which would specify which browser you want it for, and it will generate the code accordingly. I want that if I decide to use this or that function, Dart will generate the appropriate code to work on all platform.

As for speed, if I really need it, I will go with PNaCl or just go with an native app.

[kc]

Death Star? Windows 10 - including Spartan which negates Chromes advantages.

It's an end to end platform. Whereas Google is divided between android and chrome os, with two subpar languages from 1995. Dart should have unified these platforms with a more modern language, which could compile to JS also.

K.

[George Moschovitis]

Death Star? Windows 10 - including Spartan which negates Chromes advantages.

It's an end to end platform. Whereas Google is divided between android and chrome os, with two subpar languages from 1995. Dart should have unified these platforms with a more modern language, which could compile to JS also.

+10

[Filipe Morgado]

+10

[Jim Trainor]

re unifying... aren't they doing that?  Dart compiles to JS for browsers, which cover's ChromeOS applications and all modern browsers. That's going to improve we're told.  There is Dart support in the works for mobile.   Not complete solutions at this point ("end to end") but there is a direction in there.

An end to end MS solution of little interest, anyways, to those seeking cross platform solutions. For which html5 still appears to be a top choice.  Although if the talk of a Dart "service" layer in fletch comes to fruition that would be an attractive step in the right direction insofar as cross-platform is concerned.

All that aside, the platforms don't need to be end-to-end to be successful. Case in point: iOS vs OSX. 

[kc]

Meanwhile on Endor ... Sky Mojo and Wtffen take shape.

What are they?

K.

[kc]

Fletch looks interesting but it's very late.

The announcement re Darts future came from Lars/Kasper - not Sundar/Hiroshi. So do Dart have a budget to see Fletch through?

K.

[Jim Trainor]

Dart is rather far down the food chain for VP's to be announcing intentions via press releases.  The weight of a well crafted PR message from the project founders is more than adequate IMO.

I know at this point that Dart has potential for me to form a code base that can be used as a foundation for client side code in browsers, iOS, and Android.  That's a big win if it comes to fruition - at least for me - because I've already cast my own body of Dart code as a "service" layer under a more traditional, and very thin, layer of Javascript GUI (I'm not interest in Polymer just yet - maybe at some point - but the service layer will still be there).  I expected to move my own Dart code into Android and iOS in the form of javascript running in a browser. If I can run it in a Dart VM as a service layer glued to a native GUI then I even better. It has a lot of potential for making my life easier and the quality of my code higher.

K.