neighborhood concerns (Puebla Vista Estates), re: new barbed wire fencing along canal off N. Lemay Ave.
stephen r. thompson
Nathan has outlined a number of legitimate concerns at the bottom of this thread, and Bolin has started to take steps to organize other HOA's impacted, who also appear to be opposed. Property owners are starting to call this 'the Prison Fence' . We believe this could potentially negatively impact our ability to enjoy our properties for generations to come, as well as negatively impact property values. Many of us here in this neighborhood have young children who attend Tavelli Elementary school, and this unsightly fence would potentially also now be dominating the otherwise open space views we currently enjoy when walking or biking our kids to school.
To: Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com>
Cc: Andy <apatto...@gmail.com>; Minnow Sarah Caston <sarahs...@gmail.com>; Bobbejb <bob...@comcast.net>; Joy Gribble <joygr...@hotmail.com>; Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com>; Kathy Hayes <kathyhay...@gmail.com>; Blake Townsend <bl...@hotmail.com>; Jim Eurich <jeur...@comcast.net>; Jamie Machin <ja...@splashpoolservices.com>; Allen and Jody Masters <corns...@comcast.net>; Alyssa Patton <stri...@gmail.com>; Amanda K <akonc...@protonmail.com>; Ashlin Barker <flip...@yahoo.com>; Chandra Machin <chandr...@yahoo.com>; Chandra Machin <pueblav...@gmail.com>; Dawson-Anika Linde <daws...@gmail.com>; Debbi Thompson <debbi...@hotmail.com>; Jim Dixon <jim.w...@comcast.net>; Ken Barker <kbar...@comcast.net>; Lindsey <lindsey...@hotmail.com>; Megan Mueller <megan.p...@gmail.com>; Stephen Thompson <atom...@hotmail.com>; Tom Gribble <tomeg...@yahoo.com>; Tom and Kim Jordan <kmj...@aol.com>; Travis Morrison <morriso...@gmail.com>; sam caston <s...@castonengineering.com>; Jim Dixon <jim.w...@icloud.com>
Subject: Re: canal fencing- forever known as "Prison Fence"
- Larimer and Weld Irrigation Company - (970) 454-3377
- City of Fort Collins Engineering - 970-221-6605 (fence code info)
Mayor Jeni Arndt
City Mailing Address: P.O. Box 580, Fort Collins, CO, 80522
Work/Office: 970-416-2154
Cell: 970-413-3146
E-mail: jar...@fcgov.com
All City Council Members and City Manager email:
John Kefalas Larimer County Commissioner - District 1
On Aug 11, 2023, at 10:59 AM, Andy <apatto...@gmail.com> wrote:
We also absolutely 1000% hate the fence! Thanks Bo, we'll reach out to those contacts today too.
-Andy & Alyssa Patton, Lorraine Drive
On Aug 11, 2023, at 9:56 AM, Minnow Sarah Caston <sarahs...@gmail.com> wrote:
Agreed - we hate the idea of the San Questin canal, on so many levels. There is a natural area on the south side of the canal they would be blocking access to, if this goes up. Also, seems it would defeat the purpose when kids would be walking in the streets to school, instead of the canal trail.Minnow
//
On Aug 10, 2023, at 8:36 PM, Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Bo for leading the charge and connecting with the other HOAs! And I think the more opposition they hear tomorrow, the better. Contacting city/county leaders is also a great idea.
With the amount of fencing material stacked up in our neighborhood, I am also worried they may be planning on doing our side as well (which would be a complete waste of money ... people walk on the road and not in the weeds!). The canal company rep told me that wasn't the case, but I'm not sure she knew everything or was being totally forthcoming. She did say they were aware of the "vandalism" of the fencing to the west of our neighborhood (i.e., where things have been opened up near the Barkers to allow pedestrian access to Pheasant Ridge). Maybe they are going to work on that tomorrow? That's a best case scenario ...
Best,Nathan
For the record, Jim and I are dead set against the fence and will join in the effort to bombard the city/county with calls.
Kathy Hayes
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 10, 2023, at 7:13 PM, Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com> wrote:
I don’t think anyone is for it! But I guess I should ask- is anyone for this? Not that we have a vote at all, but just so if we’re talking to the city I can tell them all of us, or not. If you were “on the fence”, see images from a friend across Lemay, below.And that neighborhood north of Lindenmeier is also fired up, they did get notices and have been trying to contact the ditch company for 2 months with zero response. They have suggested we all contact the below. The more they hear from, the better, so please everyone dial away. He said this was dropped off earlier this week, so the city council meeting has already happened I believe.
//
From: Jim Eurich <jeur...@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2023 5:37:49 PM
To: Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com>
Cc: Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com>; Sparrow Evans <sparro...@yahoo.com>; Jamie Machin <ja...@splashpoolservices.com>; Allen and Jody Masters <corns...@comcast.net>; Alyssa Patton <stri...@gmail.com>; Amanda K <akonc...@protonmail.com>; Andy Patton <apatto...@gmail.com>; Ashlin Barker <flip...@yahoo.com>; Barbara Bennett <bob...@comcast.net>; Blake Townsend <bl...@hotmail.com>; Chandra Machin <chandr...@yahoo.com>; Chandra Machin <pueblav...@gmail.com>; Dawson-Anika Linde <daws...@gmail.com>; Debbi Thompson <debbi...@hotmail.com>; Jim Dixon <jim.w...@comcast.net>; Joy Gribble <joygr...@hotmail.com>; Kathy Hayes <kathyhay...@gmail.com>; Ken Barker <kbar...@comcast.net>; Lindsey <lindsey...@hotmail.com>; Megan Mueller <megan.p...@gmail.com>; Minnow Caston <sarahs...@gmail.com>; Stephen Thompson <atom...@hotmail.com>; Tom Gribble <tomeg...@yahoo.com>; Tom and Kim Jordan <kmj...@aol.com>; Travis Morrison <morriso...@gmail.com>; sam caston <s...@castonengineering.com>
Subject: Re: canal fencing- forever known as "Prison Fence"I agree with all your points and issues. I find the “insurance excuse “ a little suspect. I never saw any notice and I’m in the camp of being against it. One small point we are not in the Fort Collins city limits so Larimer County standards would apply if the irrigation company even has to follow them. I have had the same experience in working with them over the years, often times they can do as they please without much recourse.
Sent from my iPhone 14
On Aug 10, 2023, at 4:54 PM, Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com> wrote:
Thanks Nathan for looking into the city and ditch company! That’s unsettling to hear Jim, I was hoping they’d stop at Lemay but figured that’s the plan. I know the ditch company has a lot of authority in the city/county, so I’m not sure what power we have. But I have reached out to them and the city as well, and I’ve contacted the hoas and neighbors I could find along our area of the ditch. Lindenmeier Lake is ready to act on this, and dubbed it the Prison Fence. They said they did not receive notices, and I’ve asked their neighborhood to send contacts. And I’m waiting for the Adriel Hills hoa to reply. I’ll keep heading east to Timberline, but if anyone knows somebody living directly adjacent to the ditch please forward this to them to see if they got a letter from the ditch company.
I’d like to band together a list of residents opposing this fence, and send that to the city and county. If the ditch company did send notices, there may not be a lot of options. I’m assuming nobody here got a notice? Material and height might be our only recourse, although I’ve run into the ditch company on commercial projects and they often don’t have to follow all the rules. But a 4’ wood fence would be more acceptable, at least better than the galvanized chain link. Why now, since 1879 without a fence, and now it has to be fenced in because of insurance…
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: Jim Eurich
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2023 2:16 PM
To: Nathan Mueller
Cc: Sparrow Evans; Jamie Machin; Allen and Jody Masters; Alyssa Patton; Amanda K; Andy Patton; Ashlin Barker; Barbara Bennett; Blake Townsend; Chandra Machin; Chandra Machin; Dawson-Anika Linde; Debbi Thompson; Jim Dixon; Joy Gribble; Kathy Hayes; Ken Barker; Lindsey; Megan Mueller; Minnow Caston; Stephen Thompson; Tom Gribble; Tom and Kim Jordan; Travis Morrison; sam caston; Bo Evans
Subject: Re: canal fencing
They moved their gear to Lowell & Lorraine intersection. Looks like they are staging to put fence West of Lemay. If so we could loose accessibility to the storm water drainage pipe.
Sent from my iPhone 14, please excuse all speliing and gramathical errors....big fingers small keypad.
On Aug 10, 2023, at 1:14 PM, Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com> wrote:
Whoops, sorry Bo! (and thanks Sparrow)
Jamie – I agree with your concerns. The canal company rep said they were only putting in fencing at several major road crossings (North College, Lemay, and Timberline). So far they are not planning on taking the fencing farther along the canal to the west of Lemay as they have done on the east side near the Lindenmeier neighborhood. She also didn't say anything about fencing off just the pipe area, so I don't think that's part of the current project (thankfully for Blake's views!). But I agree, it's not going to do a whole lot to just add fences at the major roads. There are plenty of areas towards King Soopers where the canal can be easily accessed, including right along Willox/Redwood. It would be self-defeating from a liability standpoint if the fencing pushed some of that transient population to try and cross the pipe!
Best,
Nathan
On Aug 10, 2023, at 2:50 PM, Sparrow Evans <sparro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you for looking into this and sharing the info with the neighborhood! It’s so sad and so ugly!
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 10, 2023, at 1:54 PM, Jamie Machin <ja...@splashpoolservices.com> wrote:
Thank you very much for looking into this Nathan. Did they mention anything about fencing off the pipe. People, especially transients, will still have no problem accessing the canal at several places between us and King Soopers. With a new fence near Lemay all it is going to do is fully funnel those people into our neighborhood over the pipe making a much greater probability for issues such as the break at the Castons house a couple days ago. Seems like this project is extremely poorly planned.
On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 11:21 AM Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi neighbors,
This seems like a very minor thing compared to the break-in the other day (so sorry that happened Sam and Minnow, ugh!!!!), but I wanted to pass along a couple of updates about the ugly fence going up along the canal.
I'm not usually much of a rabble rouser, but I'm frustrated that the canal company didn't think to notify us. It's right next to the entrance to our neighborhood (and very visible from our road) and very unsightly/imposing for a residential area. It doesn't seem great for our property values. I called the canal company, the fence company, and the city. Here's what I learned:
- The fence portion is 6 ft high, but there are poles extending beyond 6 feet to run a single strand of barbed wire. They also plan on replacing the gates to match the fence.
- The canal company only notified property owners whose land is immediately adjacent to the project.
- City code calls for fences of no more than 4 feet in most locations, 6 feet in some. Anything over 6 feet requires a permit. According to the contractor, they did not pull a permit, even though the fence (with the barbed wire) is over 6 feet. The canal company rep seemed to realize they may have made a mistake and said something about their legal team looking into it.
- I am waiting for a call back from a city inspector.
- The motivation for the fence is liability (injury, I guess?). They don't want people walking on the road just because they "think it is pretty" and supposedly were instructed by their insurance company to do something. The representative from the canal company seemed to think the fence needs to be this intimidating to serve the purpose otherwise people would go around or over it.
My concerns are:
- If they were truly worried about liability, should they be putting a barbed wire fence in a residential area next to an elementary school?
- They could accomplish their goal with something more appropriate to our residential setting and less offensive-looking.
- The fence should adhere to code/permit requirements.
- They should be neighborly and notify/discuss these things with us.
If you are similarly annoyed, I'd recommend calling the canal company and/or the city as soon as possible:
- Larimer and Weld Irrigation Company - (970) 454-3377
- City of Fort Collins Engineering - 970-221-6605 (fence code info)
Best,
Nathan Mueller
Rupa Venkatesh
Hi Stephen:
On behalf of City of Fort Collins Mayor, Council and City Manager Kelly DiMartino, thank you for reaching out with your concerns about fencing along the Larimer and Weld Ditch Road.
Earlier this year, representatives of the ditch company indicated their intention to City staff to fence out the ditch road, citing concerns about a growing problem with encampments along the ditch road, along with concerns about additional trespass on the ditch road and public interaction with the ditch. City staff responded to these plans, conveying how much the community enjoys and relies on recreational access to the ditch within the City-owned natural area. In late June 2023, representatives from the Larimer and Weld Irrigation Company notified the Water Resources Division of the City Utility of their intent to begin constructing this fence.
For properties within City limits alongside the ditch, we have since determined that a building permit is required for construction of the fence since it is over 6 feet. Since a permit has not been applied for by the Larimer and Weld Irrigation Company, we posted a stop work order yesterday morning (August 10) on posts that were set for the fence installation just west of Lindenmeier Road which is within City limits. Additional permits may also be required for work to continue.
Please note, the stop work order only applies to the installation of any fence along Larimer and Weld Canal, over 6’ in height, that is located within city limits. This includes but is not limited to Redwing Marsh Natural Area. The City has notified the County, shared the City’s concerns and planned actions. In addition, ditch companies are private entities that are not under the regulation of the city, county, or state. If you have additional questions about this project, you may want to reach out directly to the Larimer and Weld Irrigation Company at (970) 454-3377.
We appreciate you bringing this matter to our attention.
Rupa
Rupa Venkatesh
Assistant City Manager
City of Fort Collins, CO
970.221.6684 office
561.289.6176 cell
stephen r. thompson
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 12:56 PM
To: stephen r. thompson <atom...@hotmail.com>; jkef...@larimer.org <jkef...@larimer.org>; Jeni Arndt <jar...@fcgov.com>; City Leaders <CityL...@fcgov.com>
Cc: Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com>; debbi morgan <debbi...@hotmail.com>; Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com>; CAO Senior Staff <CAOSeni...@fcgov.com>; Mike Calhoon <MCAL...@fcgov.com>; Katie Donahue <kdon...@fcgov.com>; Tawnya Ernst <ter...@fcgov.com>; Julia Feder <jfe...@fcgov.com>
Subject: RE: neighborhood concerns (Puebla Vista Estates), re: new barbed wire fencing along canal off N. Lemay Ave.
Rupa Venkatesh
Hi Stephen:
I apologize but I am unable to provide you any answers to your questions regarding County codes and regulations. I am copying Lesli Ellis, Community Planning, Infrastructure, and Resources Director for the County who may be able to address it.
Thanks again,
Rupa
Rupa Venkatesh
Assistant City Manager
City of Fort Collins, CO
970.221.6684 office
561.289.6176 cell
From: stephen r. thompson <atom...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 4:34 PM
To: Rupa Venkatesh <rvenk...@fcgov.com>; jkef...@larimer.org; Jeni Arndt <jar...@fcgov.com>; City Leaders <CityL...@fcgov.com>
Cc: Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com>; debbi morgan <debbi...@hotmail.com>; Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com>; CAO Senior Staff <CAOSeni...@fcgov.com>; Mike Calhoon <MCAL...@fcgov.com>; Katie Donahue <kdon...@fcgov.com>; Tawnya Ernst
<ter...@fcgov.com>; Julia Feder <jfe...@fcgov.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: neighborhood concerns (Puebla Vista Estates), re: new barbed wire fencing along canal off N. Lemay Ave.
Hello Ms. Venkatesh and community leaders,
Thank you so much for the timely and detailed response here regarding our HOA and neighborhood concerns about the new industrial- style metal barbed wire fence which we lament is being installed adjacent to our neighborhood. Your message provided additional history and context which was helpful, and we have shared this information with the full Puebla Vista Estates HOA (which includes about ~17 homeowners between Lowell Lane which runs up the canal off N. Lemay to the west, and Marlene Dr., and Lorraine Dr. which are both cul-de-sac no outlet small roads off Lowell).
We are admittedly pleased to know about the stop-work order issued by the City due to the lack of a permit. I do understand that this applies only to areas of the canal that are within City limits. There is still concern from our HOA that this stop-work order will be temporary and possibly short-lived, and also may not apply to certain areas adjacent to or within sight of our neighborhood that may fall just outside of City limits.
As of this morning, the contractor (High Pointe fencing) has parked and stored a large amount of fencing material and equipment by the canal in our neighborhood at the end of Lorraine Drive where it meets Lowell, which could potentially be a hazard for any of the many young children that live here as we head into the final weekend of summer break before school starts next week.
I have attached a PDF copy of a letter that one of our HOA members and property owners Kathy Hayes drafted this morning, which articulates and organizes many of our concerns and may have been sent directly to some of you as community leaders directly. In addition, I'd like to bring the points below forward which were offered by another one of our neighbors in the HOA, Jim Eurich, which outline questions / concerns regarding accommodations / easements required on properties prior to building a fence, as well as County land use draft criteria required for new fencing which appear intended toward preserving natural landscaping and aesthetics with new builds.
//
1. [One needs] to own or have some type of accommodation (easement) on a property before you can build a fence. In the past on previous projects my company had to work with the ditch company on several issues and they aren’t great to try to work with. Through some of those trials and tribulations I learned that the ditch company, in some locations doesn’t really own the land the ditch runs through. In some locations they only have an easement and in other cases they don’t. I looked at the County GIS map (please see screen shot below). On the west side of Lemay they do own the land (see highlighted section). The interesting thing, the property boundary on the section of Lowell that runs north south is in the middle of the ditch.
John Kefalas
- The County does not have authority to approve/deny, permit or stop a fence of this type either on private properties or the ditch easement.
- County staff have tried to reach Kimberly Nelson at Larimer and Weld Irrigation Company and have not yet had an opportunity to discuss their reasons or plans and determine if there is an opportunity to facilitate a meeting or work collaboratively.
- The City of Fort Collins also is attempting to engage with the irrigation company.
- The County is doing more research to understand the type of easement here. If the ditch passes through a prescriptive easement, the property owners or HOA may consider working with legal representation to understand if LWIC should be getting permission from owners to build a fence.
 | John Kefalas County Commissioner, District 1 |
Commissioners' Office 200 W Oak St | 2nd Floor PO Box 1190, Fort Collins, CO 80522-1190 Cell: (720) 254-7598 |
Julia Feder
Thank you for your message. I will be out of the office beginning Wednesday, August 9, returning on Tuesday, August 15. I will be offline and without access to email during this time.
If you need immediate assistance during this time, please contact the Natural Areas administrative staff at -
p: 970.416.2815
Otherwise, I will respond to your message as soon as possible when I return.
Best,
Julia Feder
Environmental Planning Manager
City of Fort Collins, Natural Areas Department
stephen r. thompson
Stephen Thompson
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2023 9:32 PM
To: Rupa Venkatesh <rvenk...@fcgov.com>
Cc: stephen r. thompson <atom...@hotmail.com>; jkef...@larimer.org <jkef...@larimer.org>; Jeni Arndt <jar...@fcgov.com>; City Leaders <CityL...@fcgov.com>; Lesli Ellis <ell...@larimer.org>; Bolin Evans <bolin...@msn.com>; debbi morgan <debbi...@hotmail.com>; Nathan Mueller <nathan....@gmail.com>; CAO Senior Staff <CAOSeni...@fcgov.com>; Mike Calhoon <MCAL...@fcgov.com>; Katie Donahue <kdon...@fcgov.com>; Tawnya Ernst <ter...@fcgov.com>; Julia Feder <jfe...@fcgov.com>
Subject: Re: neighborhood concerns (Puebla Vista Estates), re: new barbed wire fencing along canal off N. Lemay Ave.
Lesli Ellis
Lesli K. Ellis, AICP CEP Director | |
Community Planning, Infrastructure, and Resources |
200 W Oak St, Fort Collins, CO 80521 Phone: (970) 498-5741 |