Mailing List Capacity Limits

[Chip Childers]

All,

We are beginning to bump up on some of the hard limits of the Google Group platform, and will have to begin the process of migration to a new mailing list tool. Some of you may be seeing dropped messages and / or getting return receipts informing you of group quota's being exceeded. This is the result of hitting the limits.

I just asked the foundation IT team to begin the planning process for this move, so I don't have any details about how / what / when yet. I'll update when I know more.

-chip

Chip Childers | Technology Chief of Staff | Cloud Foundry Foundation

[Chip Childers]

An update on this. We are likely to initiate a move from Google Groups over to mailman for the development and user lists. I'll update as the schedule is solidified.

In addition to that move, I want to rename "vcap-dev" to "dev". Any objections to that change?

Chip Childers | Technology Chief of Staff | Cloud Foundry Foundation

[Matthew Sykes]

Since this has ben cross-posted, it looks like this change may impact more than just the 'vcap-dev' list. Is your goal to merge them all into one list?

Personally, I like the separation of bosh and cloud foundry and hope a similar structure is preserved.

Assuming the separation remains, are we looking at something like bosh-dev and dev (at) mailman.cloudfoundry.org?

Thanks. 

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Matthew Sykes
matthe...@gmail.com

[Wayne E. Seguin]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Chip Childers <cchi...@cloudfoundry.org> wrote:

An update on this. We are likely to initiate a move from Google Groups over to mailman for the development and user lists. I'll update as the schedule is solidified.

In addition to that move, I want to rename "vcap-dev" to "dev". Any objections to that change?

Wouldn't cf-dev make more sense / be more consistent with bosh-dev ?

[Chip Childers]

Based on feedback from the community, we will be doing the following:

vcap-dev@ will be renamed to dev@ < This is the default dev list for when there is not a project specific list

bosh-dev@ and bosh-users@ will be transitioned to bosh@

lattice@ will move to the new setup as well

I've asked for a specific migration plan from the team, which I expect shortly. This will let me give you timing and user experience specifics in my next email on the subject.

-chip

Chip Childers | Technology Chief of Staff | Cloud Foundry Foundation

[Dmitriy Kalinin]

dev@ will make it pretty hard to google.

[Chip Childers]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Dmitriy Kalinin <dkal...@pivotal.io> wrote:

dev@ will make it pretty hard to google.

Can you explain what you mean a little more please?

It would be d...@lists.cloudfoundry.org

[Dmitriy Kalinin]

Currently finding something on 'vcap-dev' is possible by just googling and usually including vcap-dev. If we switch to a very non-unique name like 'dev', assuming that contents of the mailing list will be indexed by google, it is not clear what unique keyword people would use to limit their searches.

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[Chip Childers]

Understood!

Happy to entertain alternative suggestions here, but I'd note that "CF" is the name for the overall collective of software we work on here.

One other point (and perhaps this addresses the concern) is that dev@ would actually be an alias to a more canonical address of cff-dev@ (mailman will be using cff to namespace everything). Would that solve the issue?

-chip

Chip Childers | Technology Chief of Staff | Cloud Foundry Foundation

[Wayne E. Seguin]

How about simply:

    cloudfoundry@

    bosh@

No real need to distinguish -dev/-users IMHO.

[Chip Childers]

Perhaps general@ instead of cloudfoundry@? I want us to collectively understand that Cloud Foundry is the whole collection of software. We might have specific lists for projects like bosh and lattice, but everything is Cloud Foundry.

Chip Childers | Technology Chief of Staff | Cloud Foundry Foundation

[Wayne E. Seguin]

discu...@cff.org ?

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[Cornelia Davis]

cf-ers@ and cf-bosh@ and cf-lattice@ ?

Sent from my iPhone

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[James Bayer]

as a long time member of these lists i have strong opinions, but they are just one person's opinion. i find the "cff" as part of each lists name suggesting awkward and redundant to the namespacing.

i'd prefer something like this:

us...@cloudfoundry.org (most of what vcap-dev is)

d...@cloudfoundry.org (specific questions for people developing runtime / diego PMC stuff)

bosh-...@cloudfoundry.org (existing bosh-users)

bosh...@cloudfoundry.org (existing bosh-dev)

lattic...@cloudfoundry.org (what is currently lattice@)

latti...@cloudfoundry.org (new list for those wanted to develop lattice)

to be more explicit for the main runtime, we could do:

runti...@cloudfoundry.org

runtim...@cloudfoundry.org

i think it's always easy to search a particular list with the google "site:https://groups.google.com/a/cloudfoundry.org/forum/#!forum/vcap-dev" approach, so i don't like keeping a more obscure label in the lists for searchability myself. 

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Thank you,

James Bayer

[Christopher Ferris]

how about cf-* where * is whatever subset of the overall discussion?

cf-dev

cf-users

cf-operators

cf-bosh

cf-random

Sent from my iPhone

[Christopher Ferris]

what she said

Sent from my iPhone

[Tom Sherrod]

I vote for what James Bayer said.

[James Bayer]

i did hear a bit more from the cloud foundry foundation / linux foundation team that would be hosting the mailman lists. we do need to namespace them with a prefix each separate list due to their hosting configuration. chip please correct me if i got any of this wrong.

my preference is cf vs cff. examples:

cf-u...@cloudfoundry.org (most of what vcap-dev is)

cf-...@cloudfoundry.org (specific questions for people developing runtime / diego PMC stuff)

cf-bos...@cloudfoundry.org (existing bosh-users)

cf-bo...@cloudfoundry.org (existing bosh-dev)

cf-latti...@cloudfoundry.org (what is currently lattice@)

cf-latt...@cloudfoundry.org (new list for those wanted to develop lattice)

to be more explicit for the main runtime, we could do:

cf-runt...@cloudfoundry.org

cf-runti...@cloudfoundry.org

Thank you,

James Bayer

[Wayne E. Seguin]

Ahh, this makes a lot of sense, I also prefer cf- prefix. Let's do this thing!!!

[Chip Childers]

"cf-" as the namespace sounds perfect, and thanks for all the input everyone.

I've gotten feedback from Dmitriy requesting that we consolidate bosh-dev@ and bosh-users@ to help ensure that the community has a bit more cohesion between devs and users. I tend to agree with that across the board, until the lists reach a point where the volume is too high (none of our lists are really that high traffic in reality).

So... given all of the feedback, here's where we're going to go:

vcap...@cloudfoundry.org will become cf-...@lists.cloudfoundry.org

bosh...@cloudfoundry.org and bosh-...@cloudfoundry.org will become cf-...@lists.cloudfoundry.org

lat...@cloudfoundry.org will become cf-la...@lists.cloudfoundry.org

We can adjust over time as well... I'll update everyone again in a day or two with timing and what you will see / experience.

Chip Childers | Technology Chief of Staff | Cloud Foundry Foundation

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:43 AM, James Bayer <jba...@pivotal.io> wrote:

[Dr Nic Williams]

Thanks Chip.

Dr Nic Williams

Stark & Wayne LLC - consultancy for Cloud Foundry users

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