Post: Docker and Cloud Foundry

[Phil Whelan]

Hi,

I have written a post covering all the places whether there is integration between Cloud Foundry and Docker, or potential of. Currently, this includes Decker, Stackato and Diego. If I’ve missed anything or there are any inaccuracies, I would really appreciate feedback.

Here’s the post…

http://www.activestate.com/blog/2014/04/docker-and-cloud-foundry

Thanks,

Phil

[James Bayer]

phil,

thanks for sharing the post. a few comments/corrections from some CF engs that looked at the docker post:

> Similar to Docker, or Stackato's original LXC implementation, Warden is based on LXC and cgroups.

Warden/Garden/Linux backend does not use the LXC codebase

Warden/Garden/Linux backend/LXC do all use the same kernel syscall (clone)

> Docker is currently only used to generate the LXC template that Garden then uses.

Again, LXC is not used at all in Garden. We use Docker to build a .tar containing the rootfs that we give to Warden/Garden.

> The Linux backend is provided by Garden (formerly Warden). It should be possible to have another, albeit redundant, Linux backend, such as Docker.

This is almost on point but it's important to note that Warden != Warden Linux backend. Warden is already designed as a modular containerization frontend; it would sooner be the case that Docker would be a Warden backend, not replace it. Or, with the recent architectural changes to Docker that brings it closer to Warden, we may consider swapping it out for their "Linux backend".

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Thank you,

James Bayer

[Glyn Normington]

Apart from making the corrections James and team point out below, I think the article would be more authoritative if it also briefly discussed the function which is provided by warden but missing from Docker. For example, does Docker have published plans to support bandwidth and disk usage limits? If not, the article could propose such improvements as a way of making it a better fit for use with Cloud Foundry. 

[Phil Whelan]

Thanks James. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify those inaccuracies about Warden. I’ve updated the post accordingly.

On Apr 10, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Glyn Normington <gnorm...@gopivotal.com> wrote:

Apart from making the corrections James and team point out below, I think the article would be more authoritative if it also briefly discussed the function which is provided by warden but missing from Docker. For example, does Docker have published plans to support bandwidth and disk usage limits? If not, the article could propose such improvements as a way of making it a better fit for use with Cloud Foundry. 

Thanks Glyn. I was trying to avoid any Warden vs Docker debate in this post and make it specifically CF+Docker touch points. In Stackato we currently provide any such missing features of Docker at our container management layer. Hopefully we can move these into Docker at some point.

Cheers,

Phil

-- 

Phil Whelan
Technology Evangelist

ph...@activestate.com

Stackato by ActiveState

Learn about private PaaS: http://www.activestate.com/stackato

[Glyn Normington]

On Thursday, April 10, 2014 11:30:59 PM UTC+1, Phil Whelan wrote:

Thanks James. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify those inaccuracies about Warden. I’ve updated the post accordingly.

On Apr 10, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Glyn Normington <gnorm...@gopivotal.com> wrote:

Apart from making the corrections James and team point out below, I think the article would be more authoritative if it also briefly discussed the function which is provided by warden but missing from Docker. For example, does Docker have published plans to support bandwidth and disk usage limits? If not, the article could propose such improvements as a way of making it a better fit for use with Cloud Foundry. 

Thanks Glyn. I was trying to avoid any Warden vs Docker debate in this post and make it specifically CF+Docker touch points. In Stackato we currently provide any such missing features of Docker at our container management layer. Hopefully we can move these into Docker at some point.

Fair enough. I'd really like to get these items on Docker's books. Would you please consider raising the corresponding feature requests? The benefits of doing this would be: (1) it would be clear to everyone what extra Stackato needs of Docker, (2) it would be a useful reference point in comparing warden and Docker, (3) others could collaborate in implementing the features, and (4) we could all track the items to completion. Of course, if you think those features give Stackato a (temporary) competitive advantage over other CF/Docker composites, you are free to pass. :-)

[Phil Whelan]

Hi Glyn,

On Apr 11, 2014, at 12:25 AM, Glyn Normington <gnorm...@gopivotal.com> wrote:

On Apr 10, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Glyn Normington <gnorm...@gopivotal.com> wrote:

Apart from making the corrections James and team point out below, I think the article would be more authoritative if it also briefly discussed the function which is provided by warden but missing from Docker. For example, does Docker have published plans to support bandwidth and disk usage limits? If not, the article could propose such improvements as a way of making it a better fit for use with Cloud Foundry. 

Thanks Glyn. I was trying to avoid any Warden vs Docker debate in this post and make it specifically CF+Docker touch points. In Stackato we currently provide any such missing features of Docker at our container management layer. Hopefully we can move these into Docker at some point.

Fair enough. I'd really like to get these items on Docker's books. Would you please consider raising the corresponding feature requests? The benefits of doing this would be: (1) it would be clear to everyone what extra Stackato needs of Docker, (2) it would be a useful reference point in comparing warden and Docker, (3) others could collaborate in implementing the features, and (4) we could all track the items to completion.

I’ll see what I can do :)

Of course, if you think those features give Stackato a (temporary) competitive advantage over other CF/Docker composites, you are free to pass. :-)

I don’t see a competitive advantage here, since as you point out Warden has these particular features as resident. More a case of we had this already implemented in our layer above Docker (we call Fence) and cost us nothing to keep them there when we switched provisioning containers with Docker.

Cheers,

Phil