Transfer patient PFI

[Nikolas Matthes]

In the Adult Sepsis COVID-19 Data Dictionary D 2.0 two data elements Transfer Facility Identifier Receiving and Transfer Facility Identifier Sending require the submission of the receiving or sending hospital PFI. Feedback has been received that not all hospitals will always have this information in an EHR-extractable form. Can you please provide feedback whether this will be an issue for your facility or not.

Best regards,

The Sepsis Team

[Katherine Haun]

yes this seems to be an issue for us as well

[Gottardo, Kim]

This would be a problem for all of our facilities as well. This is something that is NOT stored in our system.

 

Kim Gottardo

Report Analyst

Enterprise Reporting Team

T-631-465-4137

Email: Kim.Go...@chsli.org

 

From: ny-sepsis-...@cloud.ipro.org [mailto:ny-sepsis-...@cloud.ipro.org] On Behalf Of Katherine Haun
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 3:26 PM
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Cc: Nikolas Matthes <nikolas...@cloud.ipro.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [ny-sepsis-ehr] Re: Transfer patient PFI

 

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[L Bartle]

This is looking to be an impact for UPMC Chautauqua as well

[Gregory Briddick, Jr.]

Ok. So let me get this straight.  Multiple hospitals (hospital systems) do not collect the originating hospital (on transfer in) or destination hospital (for transfer out)?  This seems very problematic from a liability standpoint. 

The EHRs that I have worked with (Meditech, Cerner, and Epic) have all had fields where this information is stored. The question is whether or not this is structured or unstructured data. Even though Epic has this collected within the system, we have to make a crosswalk for the PFI list. 

This just seems very concerning that institutions do not collect this data. 

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From: ny-sepsis-...@cloud.ipro.org <ny-sepsis-...@cloud.ipro.org> on behalf of L Bartle <bartl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:41:23 AM
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Cc: Gottardo, Kim <Kim.Go...@chsli.org>; Nikolas Matthes <nikolas...@cloud.ipro.org>; khau...@gmail.com <khau...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [ny-sepsis-ehr] Re: Transfer patient PFI

 

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[Gottardo, Kim]

Just to be clear, we do collect this data but it is not the PFI id number that is being asked to provide.

 

Kim Gottardo

Report Analyst

Enterprise Reporting Team

T-631-465-4137

Email: Kim.Go...@chsli.org

 

From: Gregory Briddick, Jr. [mailto:gbri...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:46 AM
To: L Bartle <bartl...@gmail.com>; ny-sepsis-ehr-discuss <ny-sepsis-...@cloud.ipro.org>
Cc: Gottardo, Kim <Kim.Go...@chsli.org>; Nikolas Matthes <nikolas...@cloud.ipro.org>; khau...@gmail.com <khau...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [ny-sepsis-ehr] Re: Transfer patient PFI

 

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[Katherine Haun]

To clarify for the Garnet Health System we might have the facility we are transferring out stored in the system but not as a numeric number (TIN or CCN etc)  it would be in character form (title of facility or abbreviation).  Also this would be a workflow process to review for our facility as most of the time this data is placed in notes and not specifically specified in a discreet field upon DC/ transfer.   

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[Gregory Briddick, Jr.]

That makes a lot more sense. If it is in a CHAR (or derivative) field, we can write a field search for the hospitals based on text. That’s wouldn’t be exceptionally difficult. If the data is in a discharge/admission note, that would be problematic. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2021, at 08:58, Katherine Haun <khau...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Jaz-Michael King]

I was wondering if it was simply a lack of PFI, which it appears is the issue - and correctly so, hospitals may need to transfer to non-PFI institutions (out of state NJ CT PA... or veteran's health,  for example). When we first built the data dictionary, we relied heavily on SPARCS data elements on the premise it was already being collected by someone, somewhere for discharge data purposes.

So, to move to the clinical data set...

I am relatively certain that when entering the transfer in/out facility, users begin typing or searching from a character/name list, but I'd be surprised to find out there's not a unique identifier behind that in the underlying system.

We can choose to receive non-standard names (many issues arise with naming) but I'd be curious if folks could confirm if that name is tied to a CCN or NPI or even a local system database ID we could explore for re-use.

IPRO folks: we can potentially use Pellucid.Entities tables to map names to numbers if needed - https://pellucid.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PEL/pages/8028200/entity+hospitals

But of course, if we can avoid varchar names, let's do our utmost to get rigourous data.

[Todd Scrime]

Is an issue for Albany Med Albany campus. We will have some, but not all instances. We are working on a better way to collect. We have a better handle on hospital transferring TO us rather than FROM us to somewhere else. It is not a simple matter of not having the NYS hospital codes. We have those to map into our process.

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 2:47:06 PM UTC-5 Nikolas Matthes wrote:

[Gregory Briddick, Jr.]

My guess is that the number of transfer out from Albany Med is likely small (except for maybe internal transfers from Albany med primary to tertiary facilities).  When we looked at this at our tertiary hospital, it only occurred a small number of times within the 6 months.  Is this fairly common with Albany?  or is this something that may be outside the 80/20 rule?  The other question is whether the facility you're sending the patient will report the data.  if the other facility is reporting data, it may be enough with just having the notification of discharge to another acute hospital, even without the hospital that is accepting the patient, as long as the receiving hospital is able to identify the sending hospitals consistently. 

Thoughts?

[Todd]

It is of course more rare at Albany Med. Doesn’t make it any less work to put something in place to capture it. 

On Jul 7, 2021, at 3:41 PM, Gregory Briddick, Jr. <gbri...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Gregory Briddick, Jr.]

I'm sorry.  I wasn't meaning to decrease the value of the work, I was simply thinking of whether this is something could be overlooked if it is a very small number of cases.  I believe both of the transfer sending variables are not mandatory.  We would hope that if these are a small number of cases, that the receiving facility would be able to capture this data and allow for pairing.