minimum supported version of Python 3

[Mike Frysinger]

iiuc, all Chrome infra supports at least Python 3.5 (with work on going to add 3.6). can we formalize this in the style guide by saying 3.[0-4] is not supported?

ideally I'd like to require 3.6, but I think it'll take some time for the build bots to catch up.

for reference, here's distro details:

- Debian stretch (released June 2017) has Python 3.5

- Debian buster (just released) has Python 3.7

- Ubuntu xenial (lts released April 2016) has Python 3.5

- Ubuntu bionic (lts released April 2018) has Python 3.6

- CrOS has Python 3.4, but I have CLs to get it to Python 3.6 this quarter

-mike

[Takuto Ikuta]

Sadly for me, we still keep development support on Trusty and Trusty has 3.4 by default.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/amd64/python3

So I think we cannot drop python 3.4 support unless we drop (development?) support on Trusty.

By the way, I want to know what condition is needed to drop Trusty support (at least for development) in chrome.

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[Dirk Pranke]

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 9:36 PM Takuto Ikuta <tik...@chromium.org> wrote:

Sadly for me, we still keep development support on Trusty and Trusty has 3.4 by default.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/amd64/python3

I think it is more likely that we will have a single version of python that we standardize on and distribute, rather than trying to work around the version that may or may not be present on the operating system. Mac (<= 10.14) and Windows don't have python3 installed by default at all.

 

So I think we cannot drop python 3.4 support unless we drop (development?) support on Trusty.

By the way, I want to know what condition is needed to drop Trusty support (at least for development) in chrome.

I think we can drop dev support for trusty at pretty much any point, as long as there's a good reason for it, and as long as we can continue to ship on Trusty. But IMO we should never drop support for older 

versions of operating systems lightly.

-- Dirk

[Mike Frysinger]

we aren't dropping support for old OS's, but for specific versions of Python.  people are free to install that newer version of Python and keep building if they want.  incidentally, the default Python version on Ubuntu Trusty is too old ;).

that said, isn't the Chromium policy to not support OS versions that are no longer supported by the vendor itself ?  Ubuntu Trusty is EOL and Ubuntu itself isn't supporting it anymore.

-mike

[Dirk Pranke]

We often will continue support for an OS longer than the vendor itself does, although we won't do it indefinitely (it depends on how big the user base is and how much of a maintenance cost it is to support it).

E.g., I think Apple isn't supporting anything earlier than 10.12, but we still support 10.10. I think we supported XP for quite a while after MS stopped, too.

-- Dirk

[Takuto Ikuta]

But I also heard we dropped support for Vista before its end of support from Microsoft.

Anyway, I don't have strong reason to drop Trusty support yet because it is not clear to me that running Trusty causes large maintenance cost.

I will be asking to drop Trusty support then if I found large maintenance cost around Trusty.

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[Mike Frysinger]

there's a difference between dropping support for a platform as a development platform vs just a runtime target isn't there?

-mike

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[Dirk Pranke]

Yes, as I said somewhere upthread :).

-- Dirk

[Mike Frysinger]

so everyone is in agreement that we can drop support for building in trusty?

-mike

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[Jason Clinton]

Okay, sounds like we can drop Python 3.4, then, since I didn't see anyone say that the 3.4 platforms were development platforms. Or did I misunderstand?

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[Dirk Pranke]

I am fine with requiring a newish Python (3.7+, possibly 3.6+, I'm not sure if there's a need to require 3.7). I am okay with someone needing to manually install a newer Python version if they want to keep using some other distro (e.g., Trusty).

If there are other reasons we'd want to drop Trusty dev support, that might be a different discussion.

-- Dirk

[Takuto Ikuta]

Even if you drop support for python3.4, make sure to keep following builder green.

https://ci.chromium.org/p/chromium/builders/ci/linux-trusty-rel

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[Dirk Pranke]

Depending on what we do, we could either install a newer python on that machine, or switch that configuration to be test-only (the latter being what we do when we drop support for building on an OS version).

-- Dirk

[Mike Frysinger]

i would love to require Python 3.6, but i think we've got too many loose ends at the moment.  so i'll start with Python 3.5 and see what shakes out :).

if depot_tools was able to provide standalone versions of Python 3.6 for all platforms (Windows/macOS/Linux/etc...) all the time for depot_tools & src.git, that'd be great.

-mike

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[Dirk Pranke]

+smut ...

I think that's the end goal (+/- the specific version, which likely will be 3.7+), but I'm not sure if we'll get there in Q3 or not.

-- Dirk

[smut]

Accidentally replied instead of reply-all. See response below.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:06 PM smut <sm...@chromium.org> wrote:

3.8. depot_tools won't provide Linux or Mac versions because it doesn't do that currently for 2.7. It will probably provide a Windows version of 3.8 though.

[Andrew Grieve]

Curious if anything more was taken shape about what the minimum python3 version is for bots?

We'd like to convert SuperSize, which runs on official builders & perf builders, to python3:

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1054018

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[Takuto Ikuta]

+infra-dev +Robbie Iannucci 

Currently chromium bots get python 3.8 from CIPD, and have 3.4 or later in the system.

I'm not sure which version we decided to guarantee the minimum python3, but I think it is practically fine to assume we can use python 3.8 now on bots.

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[Robert Iannucci]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:52 PM Takuto Ikuta <tik...@chromium.org> wrote:

+infra-dev +Robbie Iannucci 

Currently chromium bots get python 3.8 from CIPD, and have 3.4 or later in the system.

The system python should not, under any circumstances, be used by the tasks. The only python version we expose to tasks is 3.8.

[Robert Iannucci]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 2:26 PM Robert Iannucci <iann...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:52 PM Takuto Ikuta <tik...@chromium.org> wrote:

+infra-dev +Robbie Iannucci 

Currently chromium bots get python 3.8 from CIPD, and have 3.4 or later in the system.

The system python should not, under any circumstances, be used by the tasks. The only python version we expose to tasks is 3.8.

... python3 version ...

[Andrew Grieve]

Great! Is there anything scripts need to do in order to use the CIPD version of python3?

Our recipe uses "self.m.step()" to run a bash wrapper around the python script: https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/tools/binary_size/supersize

Will changing the wrapper to "python3" be sufficient to pick up the CIPD-provided version of python3?

[Takuto Ikuta]

2020年2月20日(木) 12:12 'Andrew Grieve' via python <pyt...@chromium.org>:

Great! Is there anything scripts need to do in order to use the CIPD version of python3?

Our recipe uses "self.m.step()" to run a bash wrapper around the python script: https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/tools/binary_size/supersize

Will changing the wrapper to "python3" be sufficient to pick up the CIPD-provided version of python3?

I think so.

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[Robert Iannucci]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:18 PM Takuto Ikuta <tik...@chromium.org> wrote:

2020年2月20日(木) 12:12 'Andrew Grieve' via python <pyt...@chromium.org>:

Great! Is there anything scripts need to do in order to use the CIPD version of python3?

Our recipe uses "self.m.step()" to run a bash wrapper around the python script: https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/tools/binary_size/supersize

Will changing the wrapper to "python3" be sufficient to pick up the CIPD-provided version of python3?

I think so.

Yep, this should be sufficient.

However, be aware that I'm still rolling out the changes I announced in https://groups.google.com/a/google.com/g/luci-announce/c/e5jjLMia71o. The TL:DR is that if you want your stuff to use vpython, please use "vpython3", and if you want it to only use stdlib python on the bots, use "python3". Currently "python3" is secretly vpython3 on the bots, but this will go away soon (see PSA)

[Andrew Grieve]

Thanks!

I don't think this script has any third-party deps, so likely vpython doesn't matter?

Is there a way to use this same version of python3 from local developer builds?

[Robert Iannucci]

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 1:27 PM 'Andrew Grieve' via python <pyt...@chromium.org> wrote:

Thanks!

I don't think this script has any third-party deps, so likely vpython doesn't matter?

Then it probably doesn't matter, use "python3".

 

Is there a way to use this same version of python3 from local developer builds?

That's a trickier proposition. I know that chromite has a built-in version assertion (i.e. it requires python 3.6 or greater). That's probably the best way to do it for now.

There is, technically, a way to get this _exact_ version of python for developer machines, but I don't think we want to expose that as a supported API yet.

 

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