[a11y] Simplify list marker navigation around ignored content [chromium/src : main]

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Jacques Newman (Gerrit)

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Sep 4, 2025, 9:14:29 PM (2 days ago) Sep 4
to Lucas Radaelli, Kevin Ellis, chromium...@chromium.org, (Julie)Jeongeun Kim, Kevin Babbitt, Chromium LUCI CQ, abigailbk...@google.com, blink-rev...@chromium.org, blink-...@chromium.org, dtseng...@chromium.org, francisjp...@google.com, josiah...@chromium.org, kyungjunle...@google.com, lucasrada...@google.com, nektar...@chromium.org, yuzo+...@chromium.org
Attention needed from Kevin Ellis and Lucas Radaelli

Jacques Newman voted and added 2 comments

Votes added by Jacques Newman

Code-Review+1

2 comments

Patchset-level comments
File-level comment, Patchset 2 (Latest):
Jacques Newman . resolved

I love changes that are negative in lines of code 😊

Change mostly lgtm with one concern, as mentioned in the comment, I really am a little on the fence on how we move forward here, but want to make sure we do so carefully.

File third_party/blink/renderer/modules/accessibility/ax_object.cc
Line 6531, Patchset 2 (Latest): << "We don't support finding unignored siblings for ignored "
"objects because it is not clear whether to search for the "
"sibling in the unignored tree or in the whole tree: "
Jacques Newman . unresolved

For this and the other methods:

I've gone back and forth on my preference a few times, but this message still resonates with me, and we are explicitly breaking it here by allowing the method to be called by an ignored object that is not included in the tree.

Option 1)
Update the error message to be explicit that this is something we actually support, or maybe remove it altogether if this is a behavior we do want to allow. I am little hesitant here but I understand the desire to have this functionality.

Option 2)
I keep thinking what you really want here is something like "AsUnignoredNextSiblingSlow" that is meant to be called on an ignored node to get the closest next sibling, but I don't like the redundant logic that brings with it.

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Gerrit-Change-Number: 6913018
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Gerrit-Owner: Lucas Radaelli <lucasr...@google.com>
Gerrit-Reviewer: Jacques Newman <jane...@microsoft.com>
Gerrit-Reviewer: Kevin Ellis <kev...@chromium.org>
Gerrit-Reviewer: Lucas Radaelli <lucasr...@google.com>
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Lucas Radaelli (Gerrit)

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Sep 5, 2025, 1:49:55 PM (2 days ago) Sep 5
to Jacques Newman, Kevin Ellis, chromium...@chromium.org, (Julie)Jeongeun Kim, Kevin Babbitt, Chromium LUCI CQ, abigailbk...@google.com, blink-rev...@chromium.org, blink-...@chromium.org, dtseng...@chromium.org, francisjp...@google.com, josiah...@chromium.org, kyungjunle...@google.com, lucasrada...@google.com, nektar...@chromium.org, yuzo+...@chromium.org
Attention needed from Jacques Newman and Kevin Ellis

Lucas Radaelli added 1 comment

File third_party/blink/renderer/modules/accessibility/ax_object.cc
Line 6531, Patchset 2 (Latest): << "We don't support finding unignored siblings for ignored "
"objects because it is not clear whether to search for the "
"sibling in the unignored tree or in the whole tree: "
Jacques Newman . unresolved

For this and the other methods:

I've gone back and forth on my preference a few times, but this message still resonates with me, and we are explicitly breaking it here by allowing the method to be called by an ignored object that is not included in the tree.

Option 1)
Update the error message to be explicit that this is something we actually support, or maybe remove it altogether if this is a behavior we do want to allow. I am little hesitant here but I understand the desire to have this functionality.

Option 2)
I keep thinking what you really want here is something like "AsUnignoredNextSiblingSlow" that is meant to be called on an ignored node to get the closest next sibling, but I don't like the redundant logic that brings with it.

Lucas Radaelli

I disagree that we are calling the method on an ignored object. What is happening there is that we are allowing this method to be called on Ignored (but included!), in tree, which is different.

I agree this method is not clear if it should work at all for ture, ignored objects, but ignored but included objects are different, they exist to make the tree stitching correct, but we don't serialize most of its attributes because they would be redundant. This is the case of the text object that is a child of the list marker, which is the only ignored but included in tree node would call this method.

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Gerrit-Change-Number: 6913018
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Gerrit-Owner: Lucas Radaelli <lucasr...@google.com>
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Jacques Newman (Gerrit)

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Sep 5, 2025, 1:59:44 PM (2 days ago) Sep 5
to Lucas Radaelli, Kevin Ellis, chromium...@chromium.org, (Julie)Jeongeun Kim, Kevin Babbitt, Chromium LUCI CQ, abigailbk...@google.com, blink-rev...@chromium.org, blink-...@chromium.org, dtseng...@chromium.org, francisjp...@google.com, josiah...@chromium.org, kyungjunle...@google.com, lucasrada...@google.com, nektar...@chromium.org, yuzo+...@chromium.org
Attention needed from Kevin Ellis and Lucas Radaelli

Jacques Newman added 1 comment

File third_party/blink/renderer/modules/accessibility/ax_object.cc
Line 6531, Patchset 2 (Latest): << "We don't support finding unignored siblings for ignored "
"objects because it is not clear whether to search for the "
"sibling in the unignored tree or in the whole tree: "
Jacques Newman . unresolved

For this and the other methods:

I've gone back and forth on my preference a few times, but this message still resonates with me, and we are explicitly breaking it here by allowing the method to be called by an ignored object that is not included in the tree.

Option 1)
Update the error message to be explicit that this is something we actually support, or maybe remove it altogether if this is a behavior we do want to allow. I am little hesitant here but I understand the desire to have this functionality.

Option 2)
I keep thinking what you really want here is something like "AsUnignoredNextSiblingSlow" that is meant to be called on an ignored node to get the closest next sibling, but I don't like the redundant logic that brings with it.

Lucas Radaelli

I disagree that we are calling the method on an ignored object. What is happening there is that we are allowing this method to be called on Ignored (but included!), in tree, which is different.

I agree this method is not clear if it should work at all for ture, ignored objects, but ignored but included objects are different, they exist to make the tree stitching correct, but we don't serialize most of its attributes because they would be redundant. This is the case of the text object that is a child of the list marker, which is the only ignored but included in tree node would call this method.

Jacques Newman

Even if this ignored object is included in the tree, it doesn't mean that it isn't ignored, so I don't think we can say that we aren't calling this on an ignored object.

I would be OK with rewriting the DUMP_WILL_BE_NOTREACHED message to replace "ignored" with "included" so it matches the new behavior.

Open in Gerrit

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  • Kevin Ellis
  • Lucas Radaelli
Submit Requirements:
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Gerrit-Change-Number: 6913018
Gerrit-PatchSet: 2
Gerrit-Owner: Lucas Radaelli <lucasr...@google.com>
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Gerrit-Reviewer: Kevin Ellis <kev...@chromium.org>
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Lucas Radaelli (Gerrit)

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Sep 5, 2025, 6:48:54 PM (2 days ago) Sep 5
to Jacques Newman, Kevin Ellis, chromium...@chromium.org, (Julie)Jeongeun Kim, Kevin Babbitt, Chromium LUCI CQ, abigailbk...@google.com, blink-rev...@chromium.org, blink-...@chromium.org, dtseng...@chromium.org, francisjp...@google.com, josiah...@chromium.org, kyungjunle...@google.com, lucasrada...@google.com, nektar...@chromium.org, yuzo+...@chromium.org
Attention needed from Kevin Ellis

Lucas Radaelli added 1 comment

File third_party/blink/renderer/modules/accessibility/ax_object.cc
Line 6531, Patchset 2 (Latest): << "We don't support finding unignored siblings for ignored "
"objects because it is not clear whether to search for the "
"sibling in the unignored tree or in the whole tree: "
Jacques Newman . resolved

For this and the other methods:

I've gone back and forth on my preference a few times, but this message still resonates with me, and we are explicitly breaking it here by allowing the method to be called by an ignored object that is not included in the tree.

Option 1)
Update the error message to be explicit that this is something we actually support, or maybe remove it altogether if this is a behavior we do want to allow. I am little hesitant here but I understand the desire to have this functionality.

Option 2)
I keep thinking what you really want here is something like "AsUnignoredNextSiblingSlow" that is meant to be called on an ignored node to get the closest next sibling, but I don't like the redundant logic that brings with it.

Lucas Radaelli

I disagree that we are calling the method on an ignored object. What is happening there is that we are allowing this method to be called on Ignored (but included!), in tree, which is different.

I agree this method is not clear if it should work at all for ture, ignored objects, but ignored but included objects are different, they exist to make the tree stitching correct, but we don't serialize most of its attributes because they would be redundant. This is the case of the text object that is a child of the list marker, which is the only ignored but included in tree node would call this method.

Jacques Newman

Even if this ignored object is included in the tree, it doesn't mean that it isn't ignored, so I don't think we can say that we aren't calling this on an ignored object.

I would be OK with rewriting the DUMP_WILL_BE_NOTREACHED message to replace "ignored" with "included" so it matches the new behavior.

Lucas Radaelli

Done

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Gerrit-Change-Number: 6913018
Gerrit-PatchSet: 2
Gerrit-Owner: Lucas Radaelli <lucasr...@google.com>
Gerrit-Reviewer: Jacques Newman <jane...@microsoft.com>
Gerrit-Reviewer: Kevin Ellis <kev...@chromium.org>
Gerrit-Reviewer: Lucas Radaelli <lucasr...@google.com>
Gerrit-CC: (Julie)Jeongeun Kim <je_jul...@chromium.org>
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