Hi Dirk,
Thank you for your questions. Let me clarify.
Regarding your first question, there are a few reasons for moving away from Ninja:
Maintenance Cost: Currently, we have limited testing for Ninja and Reclient builds on our CI builders. While we are still addressing and fixing any issues that arise, our goal is to discontinue support for Ninja after the upcoming deadline.
Build Improvements: We're planning to improve our build processes by integrating GN and Siso more closely. This includes features like mtime-less builds and more efficient build graph serialization. It's difficult to predict how challenging it will be to maintain compatibility with Ninja as we implement these improvements, and it's possible that Ninja builds may eventually stop working. So, we encourage switching to Ninja soon. If you encounter any workflow issues with Siso, please provide feedback.
Regarding your question about Siso's support for other RBE backends, Siso is designed to send Remote Execution API (REAPI) requests to a custom API address. I am currently in contact with various remote build service providers to confirm full compatibility with Siso's REAPI support.
Thank you,Junji
--On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 12:36 AM Dirk Pranke <dpr...@chromium.org> wrote:
Hi Junji,
Presumably GN is still generating .ninja files that work with Ninja, so what are the implications of this for people that aren't using remote execution to build? Are we going to be making changes that aren't compatible with Ninja?
Or is this more of a support thing, in that you only want to support one build tool?
Also, does Siso support building with other RBE backends?
-- Dirk
On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 2:00 AM 'Junji Watanabe' via build <bu...@chromium.org> wrote:
--Hi everyone,
This PSA is for all external Chromium developers regarding an upcoming change to the Chromium build system.
What's changing?
Chromium's build system is switching from Ninja 🥷 to Siso 🌿. This migration has already been completed for developers and CI/CQ within Google, and we are now extending it to our external contributors.
Siso is developed by the Chrome Build Infra Team at Google as a drop-in replacement for Ninja to support remote execution natively.
What do you need to do?
Just keep building Chromium with autoninja. autoninja will automatically use Siso after you run gn clean the next time.
How to opt out?
If you encounter problems with Siso, you can switch back by setting use_siso=false in your args.gn.
About Ninja/Reclient/GN
GN will stay the same as before.
Reclient will be removed from Chromium at the end of September.
Ninja will be unsupported after the end of September.
Please prepare to switch to Siso before the deadline.
Questions or Issues?
If you have any questions or run into any problems with this change, please don't hesitate to reach out to us:
Slack: #build
Chromium Issue Tracker: File a Siso bug.
Email: bu...@chromium.org
Thanks,
Junji - on behalf of the Chrome Build Infra Team
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(bcc chromium-dev@)Let me fork the thread since I got responses from different people.Chromium for Linux distros:Siso also should be fetched via DEPS, as well.Electron:I got a message from Electron, and am discussing it with them.CEF:Looking at the repo, there are GN config files, Bazel files, CMake files. So, it's not clear how they build the Chromium part.Does anyone know who I should notify the PSA?Node:I'm also not familiar with how the official Node releases are built. Although there are GN configs, they don't seem to be used for Node official builds.I guess they still use GYP presumably with Make? Note that V8 has migrated to Siso already.
Thank you,Junji
On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 6:32 PM 'Junji Watanabe' via build <bu...@chromium.org> wrote:(bcc chromium-dev@)Let me fork the thread since I got responses from different people.Chromium for Linux distros:Siso also should be fetched via DEPS, as well.Electron:I got a message from Electron, and am discussing it with them.CEF:Looking at the repo, there are GN config files, Bazel files, CMake files. So, it's not clear how they build the Chromium part.Does anyone know who I should notify the PSA?Node:I'm also not familiar with how the official Node releases are built. Although there are GN configs, they don't seem to be used for Node official builds.I guess they still use GYP presumably with Make? Note that V8 has migrated to Siso already.
I believe Node has some sort of mutant system that reads V8's GN files and converts them back into a GYP-like format, and then they use their own implementation of the GYP-like format. Way back when Chromium and V8 were using regular GYP, Node was as well, but IIRC it wasn't practical for them to move off of GYP onto GN and so they implemented their own thing.-- DirkThank you,Junji
On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 6:53 PM Raphael Kubo da Costa <ku...@igalia.com> wrote:
On Jun 18, 2025, at 21:36, 'Junji Watanabe' via chromium-packagers <chromium-...@chromium.org> wrote:
(bcc chromium-dev@)Let me fork the thread since I got responses from different people.Chromium for Linux distros:Siso also should be fetched via DEPS, as well.Electron:I got a message from Electron, and am discussing it with them.CEF:Looking at the repo, there are GN config files, Bazel files, CMake files. So, it's not clear how they build the Chromium part.Does anyone know who I should notify the PSA?
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On Jun 18, 2025, at 21:36, 'Junji Watanabe' via chromium-packagers <chromium-...@chromium.org> wrote:(bcc chromium-dev@)Let me fork the thread since I got responses from different people.Chromium for Linux distros:Siso also should be fetched via DEPS, as well.Electron:I got a message from Electron, and am discussing it with them.CEF:Looking at the repo, there are GN config files, Bazel files, CMake files. So, it's not clear how they build the Chromium part.Does anyone know who I should notify the PSA?We (CEF builders) can download Chromium in the “usual way” (e.g. bootstrap with depot_tools, run “gclient sync” to download src) or by downloading source tarballs. In both cases platform/architecture-specific binaries are downloaded with “gclient sync” (based on DEPS) and builds are performed using autoninja. We support build acceleration with [s]ccache currently and were looking at adding reclient support recently (paused now, waiting on the siso migration).
Distros usually download the tarballs we publish via https://ci.chromium.org/ui/p/infra/builders/cron/publish_tarball, but generally speaking pulling pre-built binaries to use as part of the build is either frowned upon or simply not allowed (and I believe this applies to other parties besides distros).
We bundle GN's sources into the tarball for this reason, and distros (and possibly others) use Ninja as provided by the distribution rather than pulling a binary via DEPS (hence my question about releases, pinned versions and whether one would be expected to build Siso, which would then require a Go toolchain before even beginning to build Chromium).
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Hi Junji,
I noticed that Siso does not support the classic `-j` option, based on a quick test. In offline mode, how can we control the number of local jobs?
The default value of `-1` for `-remote_jobs` appears to utilize all available CPU cores. Is there a way to throttle or limit the number of jobs for a local build?
Best,
--
ChangSeok
On 6/18/25 6:31 PM, 'Junji Watanabe' via Chromium-dev wrote:
> (bcc chromium-dev@)
>
> Let me fork the thread since I got responses from different people.
>
> Chromium for Linux distros:
> How do they build Chromium now? They are supposed to use the GN <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:DEPS;l=1029-1058;drc=a68f8f542db332f01e199ca9fea006826f6d230b>/Ninja <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:DEPS;l=2559-2568;drc=a68f8f542db332f01e199ca9fea006826f6d230b> binaries fetched via DEPS.
> Siso also should be fetched via DEPS <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:DEPS;l=2569-2578;drc=a68f8f542db332f01e199ca9fea006826f6d230b>, as well.
>
> Electron:
> I got a message from Electron, and am discussing it with them.
>
> CEF:
> Looking at the repo <https://github.com/chromiumembedded/cef>, there are GN config files, Bazel files, CMake files. So, it's not clear how they build the Chromium part.
> Does anyone know who I should notify the PSA?
>
> Node:
> I'm also not familiar with how the official Node releases are built. Although there are GN configs <https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/main/BUILD.gn#L7>, they don't seem to be used for Node official builds.
> I guess they still use GYP presumably with Make <https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/main/BUILDING.md#unix-and-macos>? Note that V8 has migrated to Siso already.
>
> Thank you,
> Junji
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 6:53 PM Raphael Kubo da Costa <ku...@igalia.com <mailto:ku...@igalia.com>> wrote:
>
> __
> +chromium-packagers
>
> Hey Junji,
>
> Given the "Ninja builds may eventually stop working" bit, can you clarify how this impacts downstreams like Linux distros that build Chromium from the published tarballs, or embedders like Electron, CEF, perhaps even Node due to V8?
>
> Specifically, I'm wondering:
> * Will there be releases like Ninja does?
> * If not, I'm guessing everyone will be expected to fetch and build their own Siso copy?
> * Are Siso versions supposed to be pinned to specific Chromium releases like GN?
>
> On 6/17/25 11:17, 'Junji Watanabe' via Chromium-dev wrote:
>> Hi Dirk,
>>
>> Thank you for your questions. Let me clarify.
>>
>> Regarding your first question, there are a few reasons for moving away from Ninja:
>>
>> Maintenance Cost: Currently, we have limited testing for Ninja and Reclient builds on our CI builders. While we are still addressing and fixing any issues that arise, our goal is to discontinue support for Ninja after the upcoming deadline.
>>
>> Build Improvements: We're planning to improve our build processes by integrating GN and Siso more closely. This includes features like mtime-less builds and more efficient build graph serialization. It's difficult to predict how challenging it will be to maintain compatibility with Ninja as we implement these improvements, and it's possible that Ninja builds may eventually stop working. So, we encourage switching to Ninja soon. If you encounter any workflow issues with Siso, please provide feedback <https://chromium.googlesource.com/infra/infra/+/refs/heads/main/go/src/infra/build/siso/#contacts>.
>>
>> Regarding your question about Siso's support for other RBE backends, Siso is designed to send Remote Execution API <https://github.com/bazelbuild/remote-apis/blob/main/build/bazel/remote/execution/v2/remote_execution.proto> (REAPI) requests to a custom API address. I am currently in contact with various remote build service providers to confirm full compatibility with Siso's REAPI support.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Junji
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 12:36 AM Dirk Pranke <dpr...@chromium.org <mailto:dpr...@chromium.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Junji,
>>
>> Presumably GN is still generating .ninja files that work with Ninja, so what are the implications of this for people that aren't using remote execution to build? Are we going to be making changes that aren't compatible with Ninja?
>>
>> Or is this more of a support thing, in that you only want to support one build tool?
>>
>> Also, does Siso support building with other RBE backends?
>>
>> -- Dirk
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 2:00 AM 'Junji Watanabe' via build <bu...@chromium.org <mailto:bu...@chromium.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>> This PSA is for all external Chromium developers regarding an upcoming change to the Chromium build system.
>>
>>
>> What's changing?
>>
>>
>> Chromium's build system is switching from Ninja 🥷 to Siso 🌿. This migration has already been completed for developers and CI/CQ within Google, and we are now extending it to our external contributors.
>>
>>
>> Siso <https://chromium.googlesource.com/infra/infra/+/refs/heads/main/go/src/infra/build/siso/>is developed by the Chrome Build Infra Team at Google as a drop-in replacement for Ninja to support remote execution natively.
>>
>>
>> What do you need to do?
>>
>>
>> Just keep building Chromium with autoninja. autoninjawill automatically use Siso after you run gn cleanthe next time.
>>
>>
>> How to opt out?
>>
>>
>> If you encounter problems with Siso, you can switch back by setting use_siso=falsein your args.gn <http://args.gn>.
>>
>>
>> About Ninja/Reclient/GN
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> GN will stay the same as before.
>>
>> *
>>
>> Reclient will be removed from Chromiumat the end of September.
>>
>> *
>>
>> Ninja will be unsupported after the end of September.
>>
>>
>> Please prepare to switch to Siso before the deadline.
>>
>>
>> Questions or Issues?
>>
>>
>> If you have any questions or run into any problems with this change, please don't hesitate to reach out to us:
>>
>> *
>>
>> Slack: #build <https://chromium.slack.com/archives/C08SJ9DH4BZ>
>>
>> *
>>
>> Chromium Issue Tracker: File a Siso bug <https://issues.chromium.org/issues/new?component=1724382&template=2146965>.
>>
>> *
>>
>> Email: bu...@chromium.org <mailto:bu...@chromium.org>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Junji - on behalf of the Chrome Build Infra Team
>>
>>
>>
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On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 9:15 AM Fumitoshi Ukai (鵜飼文敏) <uk...@google.com> wrote:On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 9:06 AM Fumitoshi Ukai (鵜飼文敏) <uk...@google.com> wrote:I think you could use `--offline --reapi_insecure` to mitigate at the momentah, it doesn't work....`--project= --reapi_insecure` work?or use siso latest (i.e. add `"siso_version": "latest"` in "custom_vars" section in .gclient, and run `gclient runhooks`)Please use siso latest at the moment.?On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 3:17 AM Walter Rader <walt...@gmail.com> wrote:> Hi, I am encountering an error that requires me to login when using siso. Is this expected?It's not documented in the build instructions - at least for Mac (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/mac_build_instructions.md ).Further, following the instructions to run `siso login` and following its instructions results in failure./!\
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WalterOn Thursday, July 3, 2025 at 8:00:23 AM UTC-7 Levi Zim wrote:Hi, I am encountering an error that requires me to login when using siso. Is this expected?
0.00s Error: need to run `siso login`: failed to get token : exec: "gcloud": executable file not found in $PATH
On Monday, June 23, 2025 at 11:34:50 PM UTC+8 Tor Arne Vestbø wrote:Cool stuff! A few questions:1. Are there prebuilt binaries somewhere (CIPD) or should we build from source?2. It seems a `build/config/siso/main.star` is needed to `siso ninja`. What is the minimal main.star that makes `siso ninja` a drop in replacement for `ninja` in an existing (CMake-based) project (that's not Chromium)?3. reclient has `RBE_remote_headers=x-buildbuddy-api-key=mykey`, does siso respect that or is there another way to do header-based auth?Cheers,Tor Arne
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> Hi, I am encountering an error that requires me to login when using siso. Is this expected?It's not documented in the build instructions - at least for Mac (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/mac_build_instructions.md ).Further, following the instructions to run `siso login` and following its instructions results in failure./!\
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Walter
On Thursday, July 3, 2025 at 8:00:23 AM UTC-7 Levi Zim wrote:
Hi, I am encountering an error that requires me to login when using siso. Is this expected?
0.00s Error: need to run `siso login`: failed to get token : exec: "gcloud": executable file not found in $PATH
On Monday, June 23, 2025 at 11:34:50 PM UTC+8 Tor Arne Vestbø wrote:
Cool stuff! A few questions:1. Are there prebuilt binaries somewhere (CIPD) or should we build from source?2. It seems a `build/config/siso/main.star` is needed to `siso ninja`. What is the minimal main.star that makes `siso ninja` a drop in replacement for `ninja` in an existing (CMake-based) project (that's not Chromium)?3. reclient has `RBE_remote_headers=x-buildbuddy-api-key=mykey`, does siso respect that or is there another way to do header-based auth?Cheers,Tor Arne
On Thursday, June 19, 2025 at 9:53:03 AM UTC+2 Raphael Kubo da Costa wrote:
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I think you could use `--offline --reapi_insecure` to mitigate at the moment
or use siso latest (i.e. add `"siso_version": "latest"` in "custom_vars" section in .gclient, and run `gclient runhooks`)
?
On Fri, Jul 4, 2025 at 9:06 AM Fumitoshi Ukai (鵜飼文敏) <uk...@google.com> wrote:I think you could use `--offline --reapi_insecure` to mitigate at the momentah, it doesn't work....