Intent to Experiment: CSS Initial Letters

[Yoshifumi Inoue]

Contact emails

yo...@chromium.org, ko...@chromium.org

Explainer

None

Specification

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/#initial-letter-styling

Design docs

https://bit.ly/3KzJ27G

Summary

Initial letters are large, decorative letters have been used to start new sections of text since before the invention of printing. In fact, their use predates lowercase letters entirely. Blink will support CSS property "initial-letter".

Blink component

Blink>Layout>Inline

TAG review

Not applicable

TAG review status

Not applicable

Risks

Interoperability and Compatibility

Chrome supports full syntax of `initial-letter`: 1 `initial-letter:` number 2 `initial-letter:` number integer 3.`initial-letter:` number `drop` 4.`initial-letter:` number `raise` However Safari supports: 1. `-webkit-initial-letter:` integer 2. `-webkit-initial-letter:` integer integer So, web authors need to use Safari compatible syntax.

Gecko: In development (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1223880) No active development since 2017.

WebKit: Shipped/Shipping (https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229090) Needs to use the prefix version `-webkit-initial-letter`. Supports only an integer size. No `drop` and `raise` keyword support.

Web developers: No signals

Other signals: It’s implemented only in Safari, but the usage is high. 

•  * 40.2% usage ratio according to CSS2021 Usage Overview.
•  * 23.9% have used it according to CSS2021 Typography features.

WebView application risks

Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?

No.

Goals for experimentation

The goal for the experiment is to seek feedback about this feature and observe no crash and no performance regression.

Reason this experiment is being extended

N/A

Ongoing technical constraints

N/A

Debuggability

As other CSS properties.

Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?

Yes,

Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests?

Yes,

DevTrial instructions

https://output.jsbin.com/basukanebo/1

Flag name

CSSInitialLetter

Requires code in //chrome?

False

Tracking bug

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1276900

Estimated milestones

No milestones specified

Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status

https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167442033115136

Links to previous Intent discussions

Intent to prototype: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABJ-EHNMC29gEMkgopMJFW6LfWCCuxXmC0F%2BRPpOuM%3Dznbo5LQ%40mail.gmail.com

This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status.

[Yoav Weiss]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 8:49 AM Yoshifumi Inoue <yo...@chromium.org> wrote:

Contact emails

yo...@chromium.org, ko...@chromium.org

Explainer

None

Specification

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/#initial-letter-styling

Design docs

https://bit.ly/3KzJ27G

Summary

Initial letters are large, decorative letters have been used to start new sections of text since before the invention of printing. In fact, their use predates lowercase letters entirely. Blink will support CSS property "initial-letter".

Blink component

Blink>Layout>Inline

TAG review

Not applicable

Why is it N/A?

 

TAG review status

Not applicable

Risks

Interoperability and Compatibility

Chrome supports full syntax of `initial-letter`: 1 `initial-letter:` number 2 `initial-letter:` number integer 3.`initial-letter:` number `drop` 4.`initial-letter:` number `raise` However Safari supports: 1. `-webkit-initial-letter:` integer 2. `-webkit-initial-letter:` integer integer So, web authors need to use Safari compatible syntax.

Gecko: In development (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1223880) No active development since 2017.

WebKit: Shipped/Shipping (https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229090) Needs to use the prefix version `-webkit-initial-letter`. Supports only an integer size. No `drop` and `raise` keyword support.

Can you ask for positions regarding the unprefixed version and additions from the proprietary Safari syntax?

 

Web developers: No signals

Is it possible to get such signals? Do you have partners lined up to use the OT?

What's the timeline in which you want the experiment to run?

 

Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status

https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167442033115136

Links to previous Intent discussions

Intent to prototype: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABJ-EHNMC29gEMkgopMJFW6LfWCCuxXmC0F%2BRPpOuM%3Dznbo5LQ%40mail.gmail.com

This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status.

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[Emilio Cobos Álvarez]

On 11/21/22 08:49, Yoshifumi Inoue wrote:
> /Gecko/: In development
> (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1223880
> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1223880>) No active
> development since 2017.

While it is my understanding that we're not opposed to this feature, I
don't think this quite qualifies as an official position. Would be worth
to file an issue in
<https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/new>

Thanks,

-- Emilio

[Yoshifumi Inoue]

Thanks for the reply!

First of all, this thread is changed to "Intent to Ship: CSS Initial Letters".

Because WebKit already shipped with a prefixed version.

I would like answer questions here:

Q: TAG review: Why it N/A

Because WebKit already shipped with a prefixed version.

Q: Web Developers: No signals: Is it possible to get such signals? Do you have partners lined up to use the OT?

Here is Web Developers demand, I was put into the wrong box in the tool.

It’s implemented only in Safari, but the usage is high. 

•  * 40.2% usage ratio according to CSS2021 Usage Overview.
•  * 23.9% have used it according to CSS2021 Typography features.

@Yoav, Could you tell me what "OT" stands for?

Q: What's the timeline in which you want the experiment to run?

We would like to ship in canary, once I get LGTM.

This is intent to ship instead of experiment, because WebKit shipped.

Q. Gecko's position

I file the request:

https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/711

I also found the meta bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1273019

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[Yoav Weiss]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 9:19 AM Yoshifumi Inoue <yo...@chromium.org> wrote:

Thanks for the reply!

First of all, this thread is changed to "Intent to Ship: CSS Initial Letters".

Because WebKit already shipped with a prefixed version.

I would like answer questions here:

Q: TAG review: Why it N/A

Because WebKit already shipped with a prefixed version.

Q: Web Developers: No signals: Is it possible to get such signals? Do you have partners lined up to use the OT?

Here is Web Developers demand, I was put into the wrong box in the tool.

It’s implemented only in Safari, but the usage is high. 

•  * 40.2% usage ratio according to CSS2021 Usage Overview.
•  * 23.9% have used it according to CSS2021 Typography features.

@Yoav, Could you tell me what "OT" stands for?

Origin Trial. Apologies for the abbreviation!

 

Q: What's the timeline in which you want the experiment to run?

We would like to ship in canary, once I get LGTM.

This is intent to ship instead of experiment, because WebKit shipped.

Oh, ok!

 

Q. Gecko's position

I file the request:

https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/711

Can you also file for a position on the WebKit repo and ask them explicitly about their opinions on shipping the unprefixed version, including its new functionality?

I also found the meta bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1273019

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:22 AM Emilio Cobos Álvarez <emi...@mozilla.com> wrote:

On 11/21/22 08:49, Yoshifumi Inoue wrote:
> /Gecko/: In development
> (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1223880
> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1223880>) No active
> development since 2017.

While it is my understanding that we're not opposed to this feature, I
don't think this quite qualifies as an official position. Would be worth
to file an issue in
<https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/new>

Thanks,

  -- Emilio

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[Yoshifumi Inoue]

>Can you also file for a position on the WebKit repo and ask them explicitly about their opinions on shipping the unprefixed version, including its new functionality?

I field.

https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/94

WebKit Bugzilla has:

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229090 Unprefix -webkit-initial-letter

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=246676 Add support for the values raise | drop on initial-letter property

I resent "Intent to Ship" email. Please move to there for future discussion.

Sorry for confusion. m(_ _)m

And thanks for your patient!

2022年11月22日火曜日 17:31:37 UTC+9 Yoav Weiss:

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[Florian Rivoal]

Sorry for the very late feedback.

On 22Nov 2022, at 17:19, Yoshifumi Inoue <yo...@chromium.org> wrote:

Here is Web Developers demand, I was put into the wrong box in the tool.

It’s implemented only in Safari, but the usage is high. 

•  * 40.2% usage ratio according to CSS2021 Usage Overview.
•  * 23.9% have used it according to CSS2021 Typography features.

I think it is a great feature, and I am very happy to see progress on it, but it’s possible that these numbers are overstating developer demand due to a misunderstanding.

Percentages this high seem more likely to refer to the ::first-letter pseudo which has existed since css1, not the initial-letter property which is relatively new. Their names are close, and the features interact, so it wouldn’t be surprising that people answering a survey, and paying limited attention, would have thought they were being asked about the more famous of the two.

—Florian