Intent to Remove: -webkit-perspective-origin-[x,y]

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Anders Hartvoll Ruud

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Oct 27, 2022, 5:11:53 AM10/27/22
to blink-dev

Contact emails

and...@chromium.org


Explainer

None


Specification

N/A


Summary

Removes the non-standard -webkit-perspective-origin-[x,y] CSS properties. Note however that the -webkit-perspective-origin property (an alias of perspective-origin) is not affected.


The regular (parsing-based) use-counters are at about 0.5% of page loads.

https://chromestatus.com/metrics/css/timeline/popularity/310

https://chromestatus.com/metrics/css/timeline/popularity/311


However, a typical pattern is to specify the same values both for a prefixed version of the property and an unprefixed version in order to cover as many UAs as possible. For those cases removing support for the prefixed properties likely has no effect. In order to measure this, a use-counter was added to find whether or not the prefixed properties actually make a difference to the relevant computed values. This use-counter sits at ~0.0002% of page loads.


Blink component

Blink>CSS


Motivation

The -webkit-perspective-origin-[x,y] properties overlap in a non-trivial way with another standard property (perspective-origin). This situation is not supposed to exist, and therefore the interaction -webkit-perspective-origin-[x,y] and perspective-origin is not defined by any spec.



Initial public proposal

N/A


TAG review

N/A


TAG review status

Not applicable


Risks



Interoperability and Compatibility



Gecko: No signal


WebKit: No signal


Web developers: No signals


Other signals:


WebView application risks

Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?



Debuggability

N/A



Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests?

No


Flag name

N/A


Requires code in //chrome?

False


Estimated milestones

109



Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status

https://chromestatus.com/feature/5141814818897920


This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status.


Manuel Rego Casasnovas

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Oct 27, 2022, 5:27:27 AM10/27/22
to blin...@chromium.org

On 27/10/2022 11:11, Anders Hartvoll Ruud wrote:
> Gecko: No signal
>
>
> WebKit: No signal

What's the status in other browsers?

Cheers,
Rego

Anders Hartvoll Ruud

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Oct 27, 2022, 5:42:11 AM10/27/22
to Manuel Rego Casasnovas, blin...@chromium.org
  • Gecko does not support it. No support for those properties with the -moz prefix either.
  • WebKit does not support it (anymore).
Cheers,
   Rego

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Mike Taylor

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Oct 27, 2022, 8:04:32 PM10/27/22
to Anders Hartvoll Ruud, blin...@chromium.org, Manuel Rego Casasnovas
On 10/27/22 5:41 AM, Anders Hartvoll Ruud wrote:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 11:27 AM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
What's the status in other browsers?
  • WebKit does not support it (anymore).

Could you point to a commit or a bug? I've only been able to find https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=240271, which suggests that the prefixed variants do exist (and devtools will autocomplete them in the latest Safari Tech Preview 156).

That said, I'm unaware of content that relies on these two properties (cf. https://compat.spec.whatwg.org/#propdef--webkit-perspective-origin).

thanks,
Mike


Anders Hartvoll Ruud

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Oct 28, 2022, 3:34:20 AM10/28/22
to Mike Taylor, blin...@chromium.org, Manuel Rego Casasnovas
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 2:04 AM Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org> wrote:
On 10/27/22 5:41 AM, Anders Hartvoll Ruud wrote:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 11:27 AM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
What's the status in other browsers?
  • WebKit does not support it (anymore).

Could you point to a commit or a bug? I've only been able to find https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=240271, which suggests that the prefixed variants do exist (and devtools will autocomplete them in the latest Safari Tech Preview 156).

I went to double-check, and found that it is still supported. My first test was invalid, my mistake.

Manuel Rego Casasnovas

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Oct 28, 2022, 4:36:56 AM10/28/22
to Anders Hartvoll Ruud, Mike Taylor, blin...@chromium.org

Do we know how bad is the breakage in some of the pages that are hitting
the new use counter?

On 28/10/2022 09:33, Anders Hartvoll Ruud wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 2:04 AM Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org
> <mailto:mike...@chromium.org>> wrote:
>
> On 10/27/22 5:41 AM, Anders Hartvoll Ruud wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 11:27 AM Manuel Rego Casasnovas
>> <re...@igalia.com <mailto:re...@igalia.com>> wrote:
>>
>> What's the status in other browsers?
>>
>> * WebKit does not support it (anymore).
>>
> Could you point to a commit or a bug? I've only been able to find
> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=240271
> <https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=240271>, which suggests
> that the prefixed variants do exist (and devtools will autocomplete
> them in the latest Safari Tech Preview 156).
>
> I went to double-check, and found that /it is/ still supported. My first
> test was invalid, my mistake.

Could we file a bug or a signals request to see what's the plan from
Apple regarding these?

Cheers,
Rego

>
> That said, I'm unaware of content that relies on these two
> properties (cf.
> https://compat.spec.whatwg.org/#propdef--webkit-perspective-origin
> <https://compat.spec.whatwg.org/#propdef--webkit-perspective-origin>).
>
> thanks,
> Mike
>
>
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Rick Byers

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Oct 28, 2022, 11:31:13 AM10/28/22
to Manuel Rego Casasnovas, Anders Hartvoll Ruud, Mike Taylor, blin...@chromium.org
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:36 AM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:

Do we know how bad is the breakage in some of the pages that are hitting
the new use counter?

Yeah 0.0002% is in the grey zone of being low enough to not be a problem. My hunch, given the lack of support in Firefox, is that they're going to somehow not actually result in any visual change or maybe result in some minor cosmetic issues. In which case I think aligning with Firefox would be good and we should ship this. Anders, can you spot check say 10 origins from the HTTPArchive list and let us know what you find in terms of breakage? If all 10 are unimpacted or have only very minor visual impact, then that drops this down to the "usually insignificant" level of potential breakage.

Note that I checked WebView-specific UseCounters for this and they're 1/10th of the Android ones, so the risk for WebView is already very low.

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Mike Taylor

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Oct 28, 2022, 11:46:31 AM10/28/22
to Rick Byers, Manuel Rego Casasnovas, Anders Hartvoll Ruud, blin...@chromium.org
On 10/28/22 11:30 AM, Rick Byers wrote:
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 4:36 AM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:

Do we know how bad is the breakage in some of the pages that are hitting
the new use counter?

Yeah 0.0002% is in the grey zone of being low enough to not be a problem. My hunch, given the lack of support in Firefox, is that they're going to somehow not actually result in any visual change or maybe result in some minor cosmetic issues. In which case I think aligning with Firefox would be good and we should ship this. Anders, can you spot check say 10 origins from the HTTPArchive list and let us know what you find in terms of breakage? If all 10 are unimpacted or have only very minor visual impact, then that drops this down to the "usually insignificant" level of potential breakage.

Yep, the fact that Gecko never felt a compat need to implement is promising. +1 to doing a random sample to get a sense of impact severity.

Chris Harrelson

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Oct 28, 2022, 3:23:50 PM10/28/22
to Mike Taylor, Rick Byers, Manuel Rego Casasnovas, Anders Hartvoll Ruud, blin...@chromium.org
LGTM1; please let us know if the spot check turns up any badly broken sites.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/94fb36b7-4bae-a647-453c-39983ca6976e%40chromium.org.

Mike Taylor

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Oct 28, 2022, 3:30:07 PM10/28/22
to Chris Harrelson, Rick Byers, Manuel Rego Casasnovas, Anders Hartvoll Ruud, blin...@chromium.org
LGTM2

Rick Byers

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Oct 28, 2022, 3:35:06 PM10/28/22
to Mike Taylor, Chris Harrelson, Manuel Rego Casasnovas, Anders Hartvoll Ruud, blin...@chromium.org
LGTM3 assuming a quick check of 10 sites on the list doesn't show any significant breakage
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