Intent to Ship: Deprecate getters of Intl Locale Info

[Chromestatus]

Contact emails

ft...@google.com

Explainer

None

Specification

https://tc39.es/proposal-intl-locale-info

Design docs

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BSpa-LKE69LL1g5CHZ3G06XEfffauwS24atfSUQiIDY/edit

Summary

Intl Locale Info API is a Stage 3 ECMAScript TC39 proposal to enhance the Intl.Locale object by exposing Locale information, such as week data (first day in a week, weekend start day, weekend end day, minimun day in the first week), and text direction hour cycle used in the locale. https://github.com/tc39/proposal-intl-locale-info We ship our implementation in m99 (https://chromestatus.com/feature/5566859262820352 ) . But later on the propose made some change in Stage 3 and move several getters to functions. We need to remove the deprecated getters and relaunch the renamed functions

Blink component

Blink>JavaScript>Internationalization

TAG review

None

TAG review status

Not applicable

Risks

Interoperability and Compatibility

no other browser currently shipped with the removed getters. The earlier version of Safari has shipped it but removed a while ago (see below)

Gecko: Positive (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1693576)

WebKit: Shipped/Shipping (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-17-release-notes) "Updated Intl.Locale to replace info getters with individual get… methods. (105570888)"

Web developers: Positive (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Intl/Locale) MDN document already remove these getters and put up the new functions

Other signals:

Ergonomics

low. remove getters

Activation

low. Since Mozilla never have these getters and Safari had it in version 15 but also removed them in version 17 already.

Security

none

WebView application risks

Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?

None

Debuggability

None

Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)?

Yes

Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests?

Yes

https://github.com/tc39/test262/tree/main/test/intl402/Locale

Flag name on about://flags

harmony_remove_intl_locale_info_getters

Finch feature name

None

Non-finch justification

None

Requires code in //chrome?

False

Tracking bug

https://issues.chromium.org/issues/42203770

Sample links

https://github.com/tc39/proposal-intl-locale-info

Estimated milestones

Shipping on desktop	133
Origin trial desktop first	131
Origin trial desktop last	133
DevTrial on desktop	131
Shipping on Android	133
Origin trial Android first	131
Origin trial Android last	133
DevTrial on Android	131
Origin trial WebView first	131
Origin trial WebView last	133

Anticipated spec changes

Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github issues in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure of the API in a non-backward-compatible way).

None

Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status

https://chromestatus.com/feature/5148228059398144?gate=5077569312653312

Links to previous Intent discussions

Ready for Trial: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/JE2ZUxqmsvM/m/WcUlJSZhBwAJ

This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status.

[Daniel Bratell]

Is this request to just deprecate them or is it to remove them as well, right away or at a future set date?

Secondly, you say usage is low, which makes a lot of sense, but do we know how low? Are there Use Counters or some other hard number we can lean on?

/Daniel

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[Frank Tang (譚永鋒)]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2024 at 8:42 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is this request to just deprecate them or is it to remove them as well, right away or at a future set date?

The request is to remove the getters, which is removed from the proposed spec a while back. 

These getters were never part of the standard, and got renamed to functions during TC39 Stage 3. Safari change the getters to function a while ago. We launch the new function but not yet remove the old getters in M131 , and this is to remove the getters. 

Secondly, you say usage is low, which makes a lot of sense, but do we know how low? Are there Use Counters or some other hard number we can lean on?

we only have Use Counters for the Intl.Locale object itself. Which is 4 % page load. The usage of these getters therefore cannot > 4% of page load. But we do not believe 

https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2598

I added the counter for the getters in the v8 side

https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:v8/include/v8-isolate.h;l=528?q=LocaleInfoObsoletedGetters

 but somehow I forgot to add them into 

third_party/blink/public/mojom/use_counter/metrics/web_feature.mojom

tools/metrics/histograms/enums.xml

third_party/blink/renderer/bindings/core/v8/use_counter_callback.cc

yet. I will create a cl to add them now.

--

Frank Yung-Fong Tang
譚永鋒 / 🌭🍊 
Sr. Software Engineer 

[Frank Tang (譚永鋒)]

I added a cl https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626 to add the counter. The first half of instrumenting the v8 code is done in 2023 but somehow I forgot to add them to the blink code.

[Mike Taylor]

Thanks Frank.

4% as an upper bound is a very, very large number, so I think we should wait until we have proper UseCounter data for each of the getters to better understand the compatibility risk.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2B7fzPFzvzWsCd9Xd0-FizJM_RhEbzS_EjEwJnHER306eHhOqQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Daniel Bratell]

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high. I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

/Daniel

[Frank Tang (譚永鋒)]

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:02 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high.

Dear Daniel:

From your point of view, could you please define what number would be considered as not "high" or "low enough" ?

 

I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

No, we didn't hook up that to the same UI. All other intl features were hook up with this UI and while I added the CL   

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626/  So

syg@ said I should not use blink_feature but webdx_feature due to "jstenback's email about WebDX features"

So I hooked up the counter of both kLocaleInfoObsoletedGetters and kLocaleInfoFunctions to that

but we later on find there are no easy way to access that info from public UI yet. So in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6089243 I change LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters back to blink_feature

I am not sure how to access the query to check webdx_feature. If anyone know how to query that, we can see from that. 

Regards,

Frank

[Chris Harrelson]

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:39 AM 'Frank Tang (譚永鋒)' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:02 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high.

Dear Daniel:

From your point of view, could you please define what number would be considered as not "high" or "low enough" ?

We don't have a hard and fast rule, but in this case it's "high enough" that we would like a bit more info to estimate risk.

 

 

I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

No, we didn't hook up that to the same UI. All other intl features were hook up with this UI and while I added the CL   

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626/  So

syg@ said I should not use blink_feature but webdx_feature due to "jstenback's email about WebDX features"

So I hooked up the counter of both kLocaleInfoObsoletedGetters and kLocaleInfoFunctions to that

but we later on find there are no easy way to access that info from public UI yet. So in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6089243 I change LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters back to blink_feature

I am not sure how to access the query to check webdx_feature. If anyone know how to query that, we can see from that. 

Your use counter is here: https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/5232

On that page there is a list of sites that trigger it. Can you check the first 10-20 of the sites listed there, and report back if any of them are broken with your change?

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2B7fzPGk5m3Dy5cfi_u_fuV_OEKFLXim64jVA58RveRwY_A6Mg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Frank Tang (譚永鋒)]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 8:19 AM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:39 AM 'Frank Tang (譚永鋒)' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:02 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high.

Dear Daniel:

From your point of view, could you please define what number would be considered as not "high" or "low enough" ?

We don't have a hard and fast rule, but in this case it's "high enough" that we would like a bit more info to estimate risk.

If there are no hard and fast rules, then how do we determine 0.033% is a bit high? but not low enough? gut feeling?

 

 

I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

No, we didn't hook up that to the same UI. All other intl features were hook up with this UI and while I added the CL   

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626/  So

syg@ said I should not use blink_feature but webdx_feature due to "jstenback's email about WebDX features"

So I hooked up the counter of both kLocaleInfoObsoletedGetters and kLocaleInfoFunctions to that

but we later on find there are no easy way to access that info from public UI yet. So in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6089243 I change LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters back to blink_feature

I am not sure how to access the query to check webdx_feature. If anyone know how to query that, we can see from that. 

Your use counter is here: https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/5232

That one is for LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters, which is  blink_feature that we know how to see the counter

What we do not know how to access is kLocaleInfoFunctions, which is webdx_feature that we do not know how to access the counter. 

[Mike Taylor]

On 3/12/25 5:38 PM, Frank Tang (譚永鋒) wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 8:19 AM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:39 AM 'Frank Tang (譚永鋒)' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:02 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high.

Dear Daniel:

From your point of view, could you please define what number would be considered as not "high" or "low enough" ?

We don't have a hard and fast rule, but in this case it's "high enough" that we would like a bit more info to estimate risk.

If there are no hard and fast rules, then how do we determine 0.033% is a bit high? but not low enough? gut feeling?

Experience breaking things. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RC-pBBvsazYfCNNUSkPqAVpSpNJ96U8trhNkfV0v9fk/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.83o2xr8ayal6.

 

 

I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

No, we didn't hook up that to the same UI. All other intl features were hook up with this UI and while I added the CL   

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626/  So

syg@ said I should not use blink_feature but webdx_feature due to "jstenback's email about WebDX features"

So I hooked up the counter of both kLocaleInfoObsoletedGetters and kLocaleInfoFunctions to that

but we later on find there are no easy way to access that info from public UI yet. So in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6089243 I change LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters back to blink_feature

I am not sure how to access the query to check webdx_feature. If anyone know how to query that, we can see from that. 

Your use counter is here: https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/5232

That one is for LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters, which is  blink_feature that we know how to see the counter

What we do not know how to access is kLocaleInfoFunctions, which is webdx_feature that we do not know how to access the counter.

Please reach out to pastithas@ or kadirtopal@ for help on that.

[Panos Astithas]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 3:12 PM Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org> wrote:

On 3/12/25 5:38 PM, Frank Tang (譚永鋒) wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 8:19 AM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:39 AM 'Frank Tang (譚永鋒)' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:02 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high.

Dear Daniel:

From your point of view, could you please define what number would be considered as not "high" or "low enough" ?

We don't have a hard and fast rule, but in this case it's "high enough" that we would like a bit more info to estimate risk.

If there are no hard and fast rules, then how do we determine 0.033% is a bit high? but not low enough? gut feeling?

Experience breaking things. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RC-pBBvsazYfCNNUSkPqAVpSpNJ96U8trhNkfV0v9fk/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.83o2xr8ayal6.

 

 

I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

No, we didn't hook up that to the same UI. All other intl features were hook up with this UI and while I added the CL   

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626/  So

syg@ said I should not use blink_feature but webdx_feature due to "jstenback's email about WebDX features"

So I hooked up the counter of both kLocaleInfoObsoletedGetters and kLocaleInfoFunctions to that

but we later on find there are no easy way to access that info from public UI yet. So in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6089243 I change LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters back to blink_feature

I am not sure how to access the query to check webdx_feature. If anyone know how to query that, we can see from that. 

Your use counter is here: https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/5232

That one is for LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters, which is  blink_feature that we know how to see the counter

What we do not know how to access is kLocaleInfoFunctions, which is webdx_feature that we do not know how to access the counter.

Please reach out to pastithas@ or kadirtopal@ for help on that.

Unfortunately we don't yet expose these use counters in ChromeStatus, but we're working on it. In the meantime internal UMA data should help make progress here.

Thanks,

Panos

[Chris Harrelson]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 4:22 PM 'Panos Astithas' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 3:12 PM Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org> wrote:

On 3/12/25 5:38 PM, Frank Tang (譚永鋒) wrote:

On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 8:19 AM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:39 AM 'Frank Tang (譚永鋒)' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 6:02 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like the use counter LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters is at 0.033% which is a bit high.

Dear Daniel:

From your point of view, could you please define what number would be considered as not "high" or "low enough" ?

We don't have a hard and fast rule, but in this case it's "high enough" that we would like a bit more info to estimate risk.

If there are no hard and fast rules, then how do we determine 0.033% is a bit high? but not low enough? gut feeling?

Experience breaking things. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RC-pBBvsazYfCNNUSkPqAVpSpNJ96U8trhNkfV0v9fk/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.83o2xr8ayal6.

 

 

I can't see LocaleInfoFunctions at all so does that mean that it has never been triggered?

No, we didn't hook up that to the same UI. All other intl features were hook up with this UI and while I added the CL   

https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6020626/  So

syg@ said I should not use blink_feature but webdx_feature due to "jstenback's email about WebDX features"

So I hooked up the counter of both kLocaleInfoObsoletedGetters and kLocaleInfoFunctions to that

but we later on find there are no easy way to access that info from public UI yet. So in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6089243 I change LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters back to blink_feature

I am not sure how to access the query to check webdx_feature. If anyone know how to query that, we can see from that. 

Your use counter is here: https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/5232

That one is for LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters, which is  blink_feature that we know how to see the counter

Ok, but the URL above also lists various sites that are triggering LocaleInfoObsoleteGetters, ranked by popularity. I'm suggesting checking the top 20 such sites to see if any are broken.

 

What we do not know how to access is kLocaleInfoFunctions, which is webdx_feature that we do not know how to access the counter.

Please reach out to pastithas@ or kadirtopal@ for help on that.

Unfortunately we don't yet expose these use counters in ChromeStatus, but we're working on it. In the meantime internal UMA data should help make progress here.

Thanks,

Panos

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