Manuel Rego Casasnovas
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to Rahul Arakeri, Steve Kobes, Chris Harrelson, Ian Kilpatrick, Mike Taylor, blin...@chromium.org, Robert Flack, wangxianzhu, p...@chromium.org, inpu...@chromium.org, Yaroslav Shalivskyy, Olga Gerchikov, Sahir Vellani, Ben Mathwig
Overlay scrollbars have caused issues testing things in the past:
https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/10972
It'd be good to think about what we're going to do with these kind of
tests, and as Steve says maybe it'd be good to keep tests running with
overlay and non-overlay scrollbars to avoid regressions.
Cheers,
Rego
On 01/02/2022 20:42, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote:
> Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default
> scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we
> never tested this feature on Linux).
>
> For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as
> outlined in the visual spec
> <
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>.
>
>
>
> Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual
> styling
> <
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>
> of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel
> free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary
> <
https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/canary>.
> (Experimental flag /edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style/).
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Kobes <
sko...@chromium.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM
> *To:* Rahul Arakeri <
ara...@microsoft.com>
> *Cc:* Chris Harrelson <
chri...@chromium.org>; Ian Kilpatrick
> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent
> Scrollbars.
>
>
>
> Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the
> risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode
> may creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some
> degree both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev
> <
inpu...@chromium.org <mailto:
inpu...@chromium.org>> wrote:
>
> Thanks Ian :)
>
>
>
> Re Chris:
>
> There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between
> dark/light modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the
> code should just work. Note that we've never really tested this
> feature on Linux so we do not have an exhaustive list of stuff that
> will not work on Linux.
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Harrelson <
chri...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
chri...@chromium.org>>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM
> *To:* Ian Kilpatrick <
ikilp...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
ikilp...@chromium.org>>
> *Cc:* Rahul Arakeri <
ara...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
ara...@microsoft.com>>; Mike Taylor <
mike...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
mike...@chromium.org>>;
blin...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <
fla...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu <
wangx...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
wangx...@chromium.org>>;
p...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
p...@chromium.org>;
inpu...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy
> <
yshal...@microsoft.com <mailto:
yshal...@microsoft.com>>; Olga
> Gerchikov <
gerc...@microsoft.com <mailto:
gerc...@microsoft.com>>;
> Sahir Vellani <
Sahir....@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
Sahir....@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig
> <
Benjamin...@microsoft.com <mailto:
Benjamin...@microsoft.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement:
> Fluent Scrollbars.
>
>
>
> Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that
> we have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick
> <
ikilp...@chromium.org <mailto:
ikilp...@chromium.org>> wrote:
>
> Exciting!
>
>
>
> Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or
> scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other
> platforms (e.g. they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be
> a web compat concern as most websites handle this already.
>
>
>
> An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see
> more sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that
> scrollbars are always zero width (as this is now the default on all
> platforms except linux?) and as a result more content going forward
> being broken for those users who opt-out.
>
> (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an
> interesting side effect).
>
>
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev
> <
blin...@chromium.org <mailto:
blin...@chromium.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
>
>
> Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here:
>
https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824
> <
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5693137379917824&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C56c7c213db54433a31d408d9e4f14171%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637792547151618118%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Aip5B8Tt1H%2FfRmK95ZpVweqeEqlYiCyD%2F%2FgI%2BBSqoHo%3D&reserved=0>
>
> And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on
> the page’s layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be
> in “minimal mode” (aka overlay scrollbars). These will _not_
> take up any layout space (whereas, today in Chromium, the
> default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK).
>
> The users will however still have an option to “Always show
> scrollbars” via an OS setting. These _will_ take up layout space
> (similar to what Chromium scrollbars do today).
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rahul
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Taylor <
mike...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
mike...@chromium.org>>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM
> *To:* Rahul Arakeri <
ara...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
ara...@microsoft.com>>
> *Cc:*
blin...@chromium.org <mailto:
blin...@chromium.org>;
> Robert Flack <
fla...@chromium.org <mailto:
fla...@chromium.org>>;
> wangxianzhu <
wangx...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
wangx...@chromium.org>>;
p...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
p...@chromium.org>;
inpu...@chromium.org
> <mailto:
inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy
> <
yshal...@microsoft.com <mailto:
yshal...@microsoft.com>>;
> Olga Gerchikov <
gerc...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
gerc...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani
> <
Sahir....@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
Sahir....@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig
> <
Benjamin...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
Benjamin...@microsoft.com>>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement:
> <
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C56c7c213db54433a31d408d9e4f14171%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637792547151618118%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kbr6Nk3tg0rCLaHL1J3Kl2kuvmx0gMUJRPyKdcrx3zA%3D&reserved=0>
> for a link).
>
>
>
> Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about
> scrollbars) - will this proposed change have an impact on a
> page's layout?
>
>
>
> thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote:
>
> *_Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars._*
>
>
>
> *_Contact emails_*
>
> Rahul Arakeri:
ara...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
ara...@microsoft.com>
>
> Yaroslav Shalivskyy:
yshal...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
yshal...@microsoft.com>
>
> Sahir Vellani:
sahir....@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
sahir....@microsoft.com>
>
> Olga Gerchikov:
gerc...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
gerc...@microsoft.com>
>
> Ben Mathwig:
benjamin...@microsoft.com
> <mailto:
benjamin...@microsoft.com>
>
>
>
> *_Visual Spec_*
>
>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit
> <
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C56c7c213db54433a31d408d9e4f14171%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637792547151618118%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yclc7DUMlvJXamT8JK5AzZEzcmExKlr8iRhPKLrc958%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> *_Summary_*
>
> This proposal is to modernize the Chromium scrollbars (both
> overlay and non-overlay) to fit the Windows 11 Fluent design
> language. As a part of this effort, we are proposing to
> update the visual appearance along with some changes to how
> users interact with overlay scrollbars.
>
>
>
> *_Motivation_*
>
> As the rest of Windows has been embracing WinUI and native
> Fluent controls, certain non-XAML apps like Chromium-based
> browsers still use the traditional (Win32 looking)
> scrollbars. As such, we believe that the visual appearance
> of scrollbars could use an update in the interest of
> maintaining homogeneity with the rest of Windows.
>
> In a nutshell, we’re proposing that the default scrollbars
> should act more like overlay scrollbars, be thinner, have
> insets and rounded edges. Users will still have an option to
> select non overlay scrollbars via the "Always show
> scrollbars" OS setting. Non overlay scrollbars will also be
> restyled to match Windows theme. For details on scrollbar
> styling and state transitions, please see the visual spec
> linked above.
>
> Also, please note that since some HTML controls (like
> <textarea> and <select>) depend on the ScrollbarThemes(s)
> that are being refreshed, they too will also get the new
> scrollbars.
>
>
>
> *_Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms
> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android
> WebView)?_*
>
> No, this is aimed at Windows for now. However, it can be
> made available on Linux too.
>
>
>
> *_Ongoing technical constraints_*
>
> None.
>
>
>
> *_Tracking bug_*
>
>
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1292117 <
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbugs.chromium.org%2Fp%2Fchromium%2Fissues%2Fdetail%3Fid%3D1292117&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C56c7c213db54433a31d408d9e4f14171%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637792547151618118%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2Bu43jm9mdZWXynGhjX2LYlu8694skgNnrEmSLXRWyI%3D&reserved=0>
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