Some Questions

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PhistucK

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Apr 4, 2013, 4:49:32 AM4/4/13
to blin...@chromium.org
Some things are bugging me regarding this recent development.

What is the planned process?
Will WebKit changes continue to be merged into Blink?
(Selectively, obviously. Port changes are completely irrelevant to Blink)

Is there a (legal) requirement to contribute changes back to WebKit and are you planning on doing so?
(I believe at first, WebKit did not contribute back to KHTML or they were not accepting patches, I am not familiar with the history of those enough to know)

How diverged (from WebKit) is Blink planned to be?

Are the launch issues on the issue tracker going to be public?
I ask because, for a while now, a lot of launch issues were closed to the public (they might have been opened after they were implemented, but still).

Is Dart planned to be added?

No answer would be obligating, as far as I am concerned. I just want to know the general plans.

PhistucK

PhistucK

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Apr 4, 2013, 4:56:25 AM4/4/13
to Tom Hudson, blink-dev
I read the FAQ and I do not feel like my questions have been answered.


PhistucK


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Tom Hudson <tomh...@google.com> wrote:
To start with, there are answers to several of your questions in the FAQ: http://www.chromium.org/blink/developer-faq.

Tom

Jochen Eisinger

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Apr 4, 2013, 5:02:47 AM4/4/13
to PhistucK, blin...@chromium.org
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:49 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:
Some things are bugging me regarding this recent development.

What is the planned process?
Will WebKit changes continue to be merged into Blink?
(Selectively, obviously. Port changes are completely irrelevant to Blink)

There won't be an automated process. Contributors are free to take over individual patches according to the license restrictions of WebKit (and vice versa).
 

Is there a (legal) requirement to contribute changes back to WebKit and are you planning on doing so?
(I believe at first, WebKit did not contribute back to KHTML or they were not accepting patches, I am not familiar with the history of those enough to know)

No.
 
How diverged (from WebKit) is Blink planned to be?

There's no intended degree of divergedness or something. I guess it'll become obvious pretty quickly once we start to work on all the shiny new things we have in mind (see the FAQ).
 

Are the launch issues on the issue tracker going to be public?

The OWP launch issues are open, aren't they? We also plan to post meeting notes from the API review meetings on blink-dev (again, see the FAQ)
 
I ask because, for a while now, a lot of launch issues were closed to the public (they might have been opened after they were implemented, but still).

Is Dart planned to be added?

See the FAQ 

No answer would be obligating, as far as I am concerned. I just want to know the general plans.

PhistucK

best
-jochen

PhistucK

unread,
Apr 4, 2013, 5:19:54 AM4/4/13
to Jochen Eisinger, blin...@chromium.org
See my comments inline.
Thank you for your answers.


PhistucK


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Jochen Eisinger <joc...@chromium.org> wrote:



On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:49 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:
Some things are bugging me regarding this recent development.

What is the planned process?
Will WebKit changes continue to be merged into Blink?
(Selectively, obviously. Port changes are completely irrelevant to Blink)

There won't be an automated process. Contributors are free to take over individual patches according to the license restrictions of WebKit (and vice versa).
 

​Blink is licensed like WebKit. Right?

If so, there are no license restrictions,  as far as I know (yes, we are not lawyers).

Are manual code merges generally planned? Is this something into which you will be looking? Is it part of the process generally?
I am not talking about (external) contributors, but about the general plans of the Blink team.

 

Is there a (legal) requirement to contribute changes back to WebKit and are you planning on doing so?
(I believe at first, WebKit did not contribute back to KHTML or they were not accepting patches, I am not familiar with the history of those enough to know)

No.
 
How diverged (from WebKit) is Blink planned to be?

There's no intended degree of divergedness or something. I guess it'll become obvious pretty quickly once we start to work on all the shiny new things we have in mind (see the FAQ).
 

Are the launch issues on the issue tracker going to be public?

The OWP launch issues are open, aren't they? We also plan to post meeting notes from the API review meetings on blink-dev (again, see the FAQ)

​Well, I would not know if they are closed. I remember following some launch related links that opened a 403 page.​
 
 
I ask because, for a while now, a lot of launch issues were closed to the public (they might have been opened after they were implemented, but still).

Is Dart planned to be added?

See the FAQ 

The question about Dart was not answered. The question that was presented there was really a generic 'will some Google specific endorsed project be added to Blink without considering the consequences' question. I was referring to Dart specifically and to your plans regarding its incorporation into Blink.

Jochen Eisinger

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Apr 4, 2013, 5:28:52 AM4/4/13
to PhistucK, blink-dev
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:19 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:
See my comments inline.
Thank you for your answers.


PhistucK


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Jochen Eisinger <joc...@chromium.org> wrote:



On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:49 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:
Some things are bugging me regarding this recent development.

What is the planned process?
Will WebKit changes continue to be merged into Blink?
(Selectively, obviously. Port changes are completely irrelevant to Blink)

There won't be an automated process. Contributors are free to take over individual patches according to the license restrictions of WebKit (and vice versa).
 

​Blink is licensed like WebKit. Right?

If so, there are no license restrictions,  as far as I know (yes, we are not lawyers).

Are manual code merges generally planned? Is this something into which you will be looking? Is it part of the process generally?
I am not talking about (external) contributors, but about the general plans of the Blink team.

AFAIK there's no process planned to merge patches. We will of course look at changes on a case by case basis, esp. since there are a number of changes in WebKit committed by chromium project members after the fork revision, but there won't be an automated process, and as soon as the two projects diverge significantly, I expect that merging will become more and more difficult anyways.
 

 

Is there a (legal) requirement to contribute changes back to WebKit and are you planning on doing so?
(I believe at first, WebKit did not contribute back to KHTML or they were not accepting patches, I am not familiar with the history of those enough to know)

No.
 
How diverged (from WebKit) is Blink planned to be?

There's no intended degree of divergedness or something. I guess it'll become obvious pretty quickly once we start to work on all the shiny new things we have in mind (see the FAQ).
 

Are the launch issues on the issue tracker going to be public?

The OWP launch issues are open, aren't they? We also plan to post meeting notes from the API review meetings on blink-dev (again, see the FAQ)

​Well, I would not know if they are closed. I remember following some launch related links that opened a 403 page.​

http://crbug.com/?q=type:launch-owp returns a number of open issues for me in an incognito window.
 
 
 
I ask because, for a while now, a lot of launch issues were closed to the public (they might have been opened after they were implemented, but still).

Is Dart planned to be added?

See the FAQ 

The question about Dart was not answered. The question that was presented there was really a generic 'will some Google specific endorsed project be added to Blink without considering the consequences' question. I was referring to Dart specifically and to your plans regarding its incorporation into Blink.

I don't know enough about Dart to be able to answer this. But the FAQ states clearly that features like Dart will have to go through our process for launching new features.

PhistucK

unread,
Apr 4, 2013, 6:08:12 AM4/4/13
to Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
See my comments inline.


PhistucK


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Jochen Eisinger <joc...@chromium.org> wrote:



On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:19 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:
See my comments inline.
Thank you for your answers.


PhistucK


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Jochen Eisinger <joc...@chromium.org> wrote:



On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:49 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:
Some things are bugging me regarding this recent development.

What is the planned process?
Will WebKit changes continue to be merged into Blink?
(Selectively, obviously. Port changes are completely irrelevant to Blink)

There won't be an automated process. Contributors are free to take over individual patches according to the license restrictions of WebKit (and vice versa).
 

​Blink is licensed like WebKit. Right?

If so, there are no license restrictions,  as far as I know (yes, we are not lawyers).

Are manual code merges generally planned? Is this something into which you will be looking? Is it part of the process generally?
I am not talking about (external) contributors, but about the general plans of the Blink team.

AFAIK there's no process planned to merge patches. We will of course look at changes on a case by case basis, esp. since there are a number of changes in WebKit committed by chromium project members after the fork revision, but there won't be an automated process, and as soon as the two projects diverge significantly, I expect that merging will become more and more difficult anyways.

Yes, this makes sense.
​​
 

 

Is there a (legal) requirement to contribute changes back to WebKit and are you planning on doing so?
(I believe at first, WebKit did not contribute back to KHTML or they were not accepting patches, I am not familiar with the history of those enough to know)

No.
 
How diverged (from WebKit) is Blink planned to be?

There's no intended degree of divergedness or something. I guess it'll become obvious pretty quickly once we start to work on all the shiny new things we have in mind (see the FAQ).
 

Are the launch issues on the issue tracker going to be public?

The OWP launch issues are open, aren't they? We also plan to post meeting notes from the API review meetings on blink-dev (again, see the FAQ)

​Well, I would not know if they are closed. I remember following some launch related links that opened a 403 page.​

http://crbug.com/?q=type:launch-owp returns a number of open issues for me in an incognito window.
 

Not all of the launch issues were private, so this does not mean much...

 
 
 
I ask because, for a while now, a lot of launch issues were closed to the public (they might have been opened after they were implemented, but still).

Is Dart planned to be added?

See the FAQ 

The question about Dart was not answered. The question that was presented there was really a generic 'will some Google specific endorsed project be added to Blink without considering the consequences' question. I was referring to Dart specifically and to your plans regarding its incorporation into Blink.

I don't know enough about Dart to be able to answer this. But the FAQ states clearly that features like Dart will have to go through our process for launching new features.

​Right, I was really asking about whether this process has started ​and whether a conclusion has been reached. If others can chime into this discussion and have a more informed answer, that would be nice (I do not know the Dart/integration team in order to CC people, so it would be nice if you could).

Tom Hudson

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Apr 4, 2013, 4:55:34 AM4/4/13
to PhistucK, blin...@chromium.org

Jochen Eisinger

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Apr 4, 2013, 8:51:03 AM4/4/13
to PhistucK, blink-dev
I verified that I get the same number of issues when logged in with my credentials.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the decision about what features we include in blink and which we won't include is supposed to happen in the open.
 

 
 
 
I ask because, for a while now, a lot of launch issues were closed to the public (they might have been opened after they were implemented, but still).

Is Dart planned to be added?

See the FAQ 

The question about Dart was not answered. The question that was presented there was really a generic 'will some Google specific endorsed project be added to Blink without considering the consequences' question. I was referring to Dart specifically and to your plans regarding its incorporation into Blink.

I don't know enough about Dart to be able to answer this. But the FAQ states clearly that features like Dart will have to go through our process for launching new features.

​Right, I was really asking about whether this process has started ​and whether a conclusion has been reached. If others can chime into this discussion and have a more informed answer, that would be nice (I do not know the Dart/integration team in order to CC people, so it would be nice if you could).


I don't know of a Dart/integration team, but I guess you could ask on one of their mailing lists?

PhistucK

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Apr 4, 2013, 9:26:59 AM4/4/13
to Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
Great. Thank you very much!


PhistucK

Alex Komoroske

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Apr 4, 2013, 10:33:44 AM4/4/13
to PhistucK, meh, Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
[+ meh]

PhistucK, thanks for the great questions!

Transparency is one of our core principles with Blink. All of the launch tracking bugs for web platform features should be 100% open. Max Heinritz runs the launch process for web platform features (including the upcoming API reviews, described in the Blink project page). Note that the process for launching web platform features is distinct from the general process for launching other Chrome features (including UI stuff).

As for the Dart question, those discussions have not begun yet. When they do (and I have no idea when that might be--perhaps many months from now), you'll have a front-row seat here on blink-dev, just as you will for decisions to launch any new web platform features. As we said in the FAQ, we expect to hold all features that ship to the web platform to the same standards outlined in our project page. 

PhistucK

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Apr 4, 2013, 12:23:40 PM4/4/13
to Alex Komoroske, meh, Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
That sounds wonderful.

If it were not obvious (and even if it were), thank you, everyone, for the great work.


PhistucK

PhistucK

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Apr 4, 2013, 12:28:47 PM4/4/13
to Alex Komoroske, meh, Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
One more question -
So far, V8 strove for full interoperability (including bugs) with JavaScriptCore.
Is that still the case?
(Is v8-users more appropriate for this?)


PhistucK

Eric Seidel

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Apr 4, 2013, 1:04:03 PM4/4/13
to PhistucK, Alex Komoroske, meh, Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
The Chromium project (including Blink) strives for compatibility with
the web. :)

JavaScriptCore was a very useful proxy for this during the bring-up of
V8. I would not expect v8 and JSC to have identical behavior even
now, but both are striving for the same goal of compat with the open
web, this has not changed from pre-Blink.

Arunprasad Rajkumar

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Apr 4, 2013, 2:19:05 PM4/4/13
to Eric Seidel, PhistucK, Alex Komoroske, meh, Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
What would be the User Agent String? will it have something to indicate "Blink"? What about the existing AppleWebKit/xxx.xx?  Will it have something to convey it is a fork of WebKit?

Ojan Vafai

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Apr 4, 2013, 2:23:15 PM4/4/13
to Arunprasad Rajkumar, Eric Seidel, PhistucK, Alex Komoroske, meh, Jochen Eisinger, blink-dev
In the short-term we have no plans of changing the UA string. The only thing that will change is the Chrome version number. As I understand it, Chrome 28 will be the first version of the fork. That said, we haven't yet made any substantive changes in the forked code, so it will be nearly identical to the pre-forked Chrome.
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