--Thanks,Chris
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I think the basic idea is fine, but the wording ("no longer able to contribute meaningfully in line with the requirements") is a little unclear to me. Would rephrasing this as "no longer meeting the requirements" work?
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Document in general LGTM.I'm not super clear on what a removal may look like.E.g. one of the requirements is a "Commitment of 1-2 hours per week to review intents, in addition to the API owners meetings".But I don't think you're suggesting that we remove all semi-active API owners, who don't regularly show up for meetings.
There can be a few scenarios I can see where API ownership can be removed according to the current definition:
- Inability to commit time to be an active API owner
- Demonstrated misunderstanding of the process, or repeated abuse of their power which goes against the principles
For #3 - I'd like for us to be able to remove the API owner status from someone even despite their objections. (to be clear - I've never seen anything coming close to #3 happening, and I don't expect it will. But if we're writing a policy, it should cover edge cases).
For #2, I don't think we want to automatically retire not-so-active API owners, as it's good to have a "bench" and we have seen such API owners become more active over time, or come in with their judgement in cases that call for it. We may want to retire completely inactive ones (e.g. someone who hasn't reviewed any intents for over a year?). I'm not sure.
On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 9:26 PM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@google.com> wrote:Document in general LGTM.I'm not super clear on what a removal may look like.E.g. one of the requirements is a "Commitment of 1-2 hours per week to review intents, in addition to the API owners meetings".But I don't think you're suggesting that we remove all semi-active API owners, who don't regularly show up for meetings.That's one of the things I'd like us to talk about. Maybe the meeting can be excluded as an ok thing to skip
, but what about 1-2 hours commitment? In general I think we need that kind of commitment at least semi-regularly. One reason is fairness to those who might want to become an API owner
, and another is that I think we need more *total* hours invested than are currently being invested, to make the process run smoother and reduce load on some of us who are doing extra work.
There can be a few scenarios I can see where API ownership can be removed according to the current definition:
- Inability to commit time to be an active API owner
Defining what "active" means is the key here I think. Defining it as "do the work needed to be an API owner in the first place" seems simple, clear, fair and logical. The downside is that it may be too strict, so perhaps we should add words like "persistently fail to..." or similar?
- Demonstrated misunderstanding of the process, or repeated abuse of their power which goes against the principles
For #3 - I'd like for us to be able to remove the API owner status from someone even despite their objections. (to be clear - I've never seen anything coming close to #3 happening, and I don't expect it will. But if we're writing a policy, it should cover edge cases).Agree. But the current definition I am proposing allows for that right?
For #2, I don't think we want to automatically retire not-so-active API owners, as it's good to have a "bench" and we have seen such API owners become more active over time, or come in with their judgement in cases that call for it. We may want to retire completely inactive ones (e.g. someone who hasn't reviewed any intents for over a year?). I'm not sure.I do think that it's a good idea to raise the possibility of removal to those who aren't regularly contributing, and see what they think. Jochen already weighed in on this thread since he recognized he's one of these cases...
Also, there's the "letter of the law" vs the reality, and any "enforcement" of these rules depends on the other API owners thinking it's for some reason a good time to enforce. My personal plan is that, if we do accept these changes, I think we should review the current cases that might justify removal and discuss with them and as a group.
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On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:30 PM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> wrote:On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 9:26 PM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@google.com> wrote:Document in general LGTM.I'm not super clear on what a removal may look like.E.g. one of the requirements is a "Commitment of 1-2 hours per week to review intents, in addition to the API owners meetings".But I don't think you're suggesting that we remove all semi-active API owners, who don't regularly show up for meetings.That's one of the things I'd like us to talk about. Maybe the meeting can be excluded as an ok thing to skipI think it should be, due to TZs if nothing else., but what about 1-2 hours commitment? In general I think we need that kind of commitment at least semi-regularly. One reason is fairness to those who might want to become an API ownerThat's a good point. It's also hard to measure from the outside, but maybe I'm overthinking it., and another is that I think we need more *total* hours invested than are currently being invested, to make the process run smoother and reduce load on some of us who are doing extra work.Another good point. I'd love to figure out a way to encourage current less-active API owners to invest more here. I'm not sure that the threat of removal is the right way, but let's discuss.There can be a few scenarios I can see where API ownership can be removed according to the current definition:
- Inability to commit time to be an active API owner
Defining what "active" means is the key here I think. Defining it as "do the work needed to be an API owner in the first place" seems simple, clear, fair and logical. The downside is that it may be too strict, so perhaps we should add words like "persistently fail to..." or similar?Maybe something along the lines of "Persistently fail to commit time to review incoming intents (e.g. reviewed less than X intents in the last Y months)"? (for reasonable values of X and Y)
- Demonstrated misunderstanding of the process, or repeated abuse of their power which goes against the principles
For #3 - I'd like for us to be able to remove the API owner status from someone even despite their objections. (to be clear - I've never seen anything coming close to #3 happening, and I don't expect it will. But if we're writing a policy, it should cover edge cases).Agree. But the current definition I am proposing allows for that right?The current definition would allow a hypothetical bad-faith owner to formally object to their own removal: "They may be removed after 3 LGTMs among the other API owners... and no formal objection from the API owner to be removed."I think it'd be better to have a separate path to bad-faith removal (maybe requiring a larger majority among the other API owners), which doesn't allow objections.
For #2, I don't think we want to automatically retire not-so-active API owners, as it's good to have a "bench" and we have seen such API owners become more active over time, or come in with their judgement in cases that call for it. We may want to retire completely inactive ones (e.g. someone who hasn't reviewed any intents for over a year?). I'm not sure.I do think that it's a good idea to raise the possibility of removal to those who aren't regularly contributing, and see what they think. Jochen already weighed in on this thread since he recognized he's one of these cases...Agree it makes sense to discuss this with them.
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LGTM!
Thanks for formalizing this!
/Daniel
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LGTM
/Daniel
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Thanks! The last person who needs to LGTM is Alex, then we're done. :)
On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 7:31 AM Philip Jägenstedt <foo...@chromium.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:42 PM 'Yoav Weiss' via blink-api-owners-discuss <blink-api-owners-discuss@chromium.org> wrote:
LGTM
LGTM- jstenback (he/him)
LG
LGTM
>>> <mailto:slightlyoff@chromium.org>*
>>> *tk...@chromium.org <mailto:tk...@chromium.org>*
>>> yoav...@chromium.org
>>> <mailto:yoavweiss@chromium.org> LGTM
>>>
>>> +Kent Tamura <mailto:tk...@chromium.org> +Rick
>>> Byers <mailto:rby...@chromium.org> +Daniel
>>> Bratell <mailto:brat...@gmail.com> LGTY?
>>>
>>> (Alex is on vacation right now, I'll wait for him
>>> to get back before asking.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 11:28 PM Manuel Rego
>>> Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com
>>> <mailto:re...@igalia.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> LGTM too.
>>>
>>> On 11/06/2021 07:40, Mike West wrote:
>>> > I LGTM'd in a comment on the document, but
>>> I'll LGTM here as well for
>>> > posterity: LGTM!
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for putting this together, Chris!
>>> >
>>> > -mike
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 5:42 AM 'Yoav
>>> Weiss' via
>>> > blink-api-owners-discuss
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