Contact emails
Explainer
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/column-gap#Flex_layoutSpec
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-align-3/#column-row-gap
Summary
This css property allows you to specify spacing between flex items and/or flex lines.Link to “Intent to Prototype” blink-dev discussion
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-dev/VU1zkDOL3bc/AU9FjKl2DQAJ
Is this feature supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?
Yes
Demo link
argyle@ has a WIP devrel blog post but it is not yet published.
Debuggability
Just the generic layout panel in devtools. There's a bug to implement auto-completion of the css property.
Risks
Interoperability and Compatibility
Ergonomics
This feature should be familiar to developers because it already works in multi-col and grid layouts.Activation
Simple: use any of the three CSS gap properties on flexboxes.
Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests? Link to test suite results from wpt.fyi.
Yes. https://wpt.fyi/results/css?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=flex%20gap
Entry on the feature dashboard
On 06/05/2020 22:03, 'David Grogan' via blink-dev wrote:
> Interoperability and Compatibility
>
> Compat:
> This is practically* the same behavior of Firefox so should not have
> compat problems. Also, probably not many sites use this property because
> it's only worked in Firefox.
> Interop:
> The main interop risk is that WebKit doesn't implement.
>
> * There's an edge case we don't yet implement that Firefox
> does. https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664
What's the rationale to ship this with a known bug?
This has been shipped in Firefox with this behavior since Firefox
started supporting gaps in Flexbox, and in Grid Layout in Chromium since
mid-2018. So I believe developers are going to get confused due to the
different behavior in flex vs grid.
Why we don't implement the behavior from the spec for rows too?
Not doing it now and implementing it in the future would imply that some
sites might have issues.
Grid was not very widely used when we applied the spec change for this
in 2018 and some sites got affected by the change [1], I guess the same
will happen if we do this later.
Also Firefox hasn't implemented this for grid rows yet (they implement
it only for gaps), and we are getting some interop bugs every now and
then due to that.
On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:12 PM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
On 06/05/2020 22:03, 'David Grogan' via blink-dev wrote:
> Interoperability and Compatibility
>
> Compat:
> This is practically* the same behavior of Firefox so should not have
> compat problems. Also, probably not many sites use this property because
> it's only worked in Firefox.
> Interop:
> The main interop risk is that WebKit doesn't implement.
>
> * There's an edge case we don't yet implement that Firefox
> does. https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664
What's the rationale to ship this with a known bug?Because perfect is the enemy of the good. And it's a weird case. There have been 3 spec issues about it, including the analogous grid behavior (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/345 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/472 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664). If it were a straightforward case, there would have been less discussion. Weird cases seem less important to support than the main functionality.
This has been shipped in Firefox with this behavior since Firefox
started supporting gaps in Flexbox, and in Grid Layout in Chromium since
mid-2018. So I believe developers are going to get confused due to the
different behavior in flex vs grid.Why we don't implement the behavior from the spec for rows too?
Not doing it now and implementing it in the future would imply that some
sites might have issues.
Grid was not very widely used when we applied the spec change for this
in 2018 and some sites got affected by the change [1], I guess the same
will happen if we do this later.I share this concern, but I think it is less likely to happen with flex. For grid, Firefox made the same switch, right? (I'm not positive) So developers relied on this feature because it had interop, then both engines changed behavior, and live sites broke. For flex, there will not be interop for this edge case so developers will be less likely to use it in live sites.Also Firefox hasn't implemented this for grid rows yet (they implement
it only for gaps), and we are getting some interop bugs every now and
then due to that.Yeah, we'll get an interop bug every now and then due to this edge case. But that seems like a worthwhile tradeoff to ship the feature earlier when it is so in demand (twitter lit up in response to the _code commit_, let alone devrel's later tweets).Further, note that shipping this feature as is, without supporting this edge case, is a net big win for interop. Right now, we support neither the main functionality nor the edge case. Firefox supports both.To be clear, thanks for bringing up this point, it deserves discussion.
Bye,
Rego
[1]
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-dev/CJgcT4hR7Rk/_TBhjGLfAwAJ
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On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:04 AM 'David Grogan' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:12 PM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
On 06/05/2020 22:03, 'David Grogan' via blink-dev wrote:
> Interoperability and Compatibility
>
> Compat:
> This is practically* the same behavior of Firefox so should not have
> compat problems. Also, probably not many sites use this property because
> it's only worked in Firefox.
> Interop:
> The main interop risk is that WebKit doesn't implement.
>
> * There's an edge case we don't yet implement that Firefox
> does. https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664
What's the rationale to ship this with a known bug?Because perfect is the enemy of the good. And it's a weird case. There have been 3 spec issues about it, including the analogous grid behavior (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/345 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/472 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664). If it were a straightforward case, there would have been less discussion. Weird cases seem less important to support than the main functionality.Do you have a sense of how many developers are using gutters today with feature detection (so that they only apply in Firefox) and would hit this edge case once we'd start supporting the feature as a whole, but with diverging implementations on that front?
On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:46 PM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:04 AM 'David Grogan' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:12 PM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
On 06/05/2020 22:03, 'David Grogan' via blink-dev wrote:
> Interoperability and Compatibility
>
> Compat:
> This is practically* the same behavior of Firefox so should not have
> compat problems. Also, probably not many sites use this property because
> it's only worked in Firefox.
> Interop:
> The main interop risk is that WebKit doesn't implement.
>
> * There's an edge case we don't yet implement that Firefox
> does. https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664
What's the rationale to ship this with a known bug?Because perfect is the enemy of the good. And it's a weird case. There have been 3 spec issues about it, including the analogous grid behavior (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/345 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/472 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664). If it were a straightforward case, there would have been less discussion. Weird cases seem less important to support than the main functionality.Do you have a sense of how many developers are using gutters today with feature detection (so that they only apply in Firefox) and would hit this edge case once we'd start supporting the feature as a whole, but with diverging implementations on that front?Good question. Until today I thought there was no way to feature detect it[1][2]. Modernizr added a script-based check[3] in December though. But a github search for usages only returns copies of the Modernizr library, no usages of the check itself[4], which gives me the sense that not many developers are using it.
On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 12:01 AM David Grogan <dgr...@google.com> wrote:On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:46 PM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:04 AM 'David Grogan' via blink-dev <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:12 PM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
On 06/05/2020 22:03, 'David Grogan' via blink-dev wrote:
> Interoperability and Compatibility
>
> Compat:
> This is practically* the same behavior of Firefox so should not have
> compat problems. Also, probably not many sites use this property because
> it's only worked in Firefox.
> Interop:
> The main interop risk is that WebKit doesn't implement.
>
> * There's an edge case we don't yet implement that Firefox
> does. https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664
What's the rationale to ship this with a known bug?Because perfect is the enemy of the good. And it's a weird case. There have been 3 spec issues about it, including the analogous grid behavior (https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/345 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/472 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664). If it were a straightforward case, there would have been less discussion. Weird cases seem less important to support than the main functionality.Do you have a sense of how many developers are using gutters today with feature detection (so that they only apply in Firefox) and would hit this edge case once we'd start supporting the feature as a whole, but with diverging implementations on that front?Good question. Until today I thought there was no way to feature detect it[1][2]. Modernizr added a script-based check[3] in December though. But a github search for usages only returns copies of the Modernizr library, no usages of the check itself[4], which gives me the sense that not many developers are using it.Is it possible that developers are using it through Modernizr?
Is that something you can get data on through the HTTPArchive?
Also, how hard would it be to resolve the related issues and align behavior with Firefox?
On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:12 PM Manuel Rego Casasnovas <re...@igalia.com> wrote:
On 06/05/2020 22:03, 'David Grogan' via blink-dev wrote:
> * There's an edge case we don't yet implement that Firefox
> does. https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4664
What's the rationale to ship this with a known bug?
Because perfect is the enemy of the good. And it's a weird case. [...] Weird cases seem less important to support than the main functionality.
For flex, there will not be interop [with Firefox] for this edge case so developers will be less likely to use it in live sites.
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LGTM3
/Daniel
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