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https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-avif/#avif-mime-definitionimage/avif (potentially also image/avif-sequence) and an extension of .avif.
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On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:48 AM Dale Curtis <dalec...@chromium.org> wrote:https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-avif/#avif-mime-definitionimage/avif (potentially also image/avif-sequence) and an extension of .avif.Would be good to verify, as part of the implementation, that:* Our `Accept` headers for image destinations reflect that MIME type.* Support for `type` as part of `<picture>` does the same.Are we planning to ship the full set of features in one go? Or does AVIF have different "levels" of support?
You compare the new format to jpeg. How does it compare to WebP?
/Daniel
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You compare the new format to jpeg. How does it compare to WebP?
/Daniel
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:51 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> wrote:
You compare the new format to jpeg. How does it compare to WebP?
/Daniel
https://compare.rokka.io/_compare/ has some informal results. Since WebP is ~VP8, AV1 should outperform it significantly. We do expect lower overhead from the webp container than iso-bmff though.
I find it hard to see any relevant difference between webp and av1 on the default image side when setting parameters to make the same size image for jpeg, webp and av1. Someone with pickier eyes than I need to make that call. Jpeg is clearly worse though.
/Daniel
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:37 AM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:48 AM Dale Curtis <dalec...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>
>> https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-avif/#avif-mime-definition
>>
>> image/avif (potentially also image/avif-sequence) and an extension of .avif.
>
> Would be good to verify, as part of the implementation, that:
> * Our `Accept` headers for image destinations reflect that MIME type.
I can do this. Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know which source
file I need to modify? Using cs.chromium.org, I found three files that
have a kImageAcceptHeader or kFrameAcceptHeaderValue string:
src/services/network/public/cpp/constants.cc
src/third_party/blink/renderer/platform/loader/fetch/url_loader/request_conversion.cc
src/third_party/blink/renderer/core/loader/alternate_signed_exchange_resource_info.cc
Should I modify all of them?
> * Support for `type` as part of `<picture>` does the same.
I don't understand this. Could you elaborate?
Thanks,
Wan-Teh
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 7:25 PM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:
> This string would need to be changed for navigation requests - indicating the server that AVIF is supported when the user browses directly to an image.
Note that this practice has lead to issues in the recent past:
https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/274#issuecomment-545825881.
Apart from that issue it's not clear to me that it's necessarily good
to keep expanding the set of bytes transmitted for each time the
browser navigates (or requests an image, for that matter).
I think it would be good to standardize what the expectations are around this.
Forget about its complexity, <picture> uses considerably more bytes than "image/avif; q=0.9" (or whatever it is) does.Right, it might be irrelevant to most pages (so those are 17 wasteful bytes, or even less with header compression), but the pages that do care about this will save hundreds of bytes (or thousands, if there are a lot of those).
☆PhistucKOn Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 4:09 PM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 7:46 PM Christian Biesinger <cbies...@chromium.org> wrote:On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:55 AM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 10:45 AM Anne van Kesteren <ann...@annevk.nl> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 7:25 PM Yoav Weiss <yo...@yoav.ws> wrote:
>> > This string would need to be changed for navigation requests - indicating the server that AVIF is supported when the user browses directly to an image.
>>
>> Note that this practice has lead to issues in the recent past:
>> https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/274#issuecomment-545825881.
>
>
> That issue seems to just be content negotiation WAI: if you don't advertize support for a format, servers will not serve it.
> The alternative to that is UA sniffing, which is less than ideal.
From reading the bug, the issue seems a bit more complicated: servers
seem to use the presence of image/webp in the *navigation* request to
determine whether to put an <img src="foo.webp"> in the HTML they
generate. It's not entirely clear to me that this is how content
negotiation is supposed to work. I don't know why servers don't use
content negotiation for the image requests themselves instead....
That can still be a legitimate use case (e.g. in cases where the HTML serving is dynamic, but the images are not, and for some reason adding `<picture>` tags with the multiple image format variants is more complex).Although I agree we're sending the image format in those cases to adapt image documents, not HTML ones.
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