Intent to Ship: Note taking new note URL

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Glen Robertson

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Jul 12, 2021, 11:08:02 PM7/12/21
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Contact emails gle...@chromium.org, mgi...@chromium.org

Explainer https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/blob/gh-pages/note_taking-explainer.md

Specification https://wicg.github.io/manifest-incubations/index.html#note_taking-member

API spec Yes

Summary

Parses a web app manifest entry for a URL to open to take a new note in a note-taking web app, allowing OS integrations.

Chrome for desktop release: M93

Blink component Blink

TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/648

TAG review status Pending

Risks


Interoperability and Compatibility

Gecko: No signal

WebKit: No signal

Web developers: No signals


Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests? Yes. No required behaviour.

Flag name blink::features::kWebAppNoteTaking

Requires code in //chrome? False

Tracking bug https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1185678

Launch bug https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1189357

Measurement When a web app is launched to create a note, a LaunchResult::WEB_APP_SUCCESS is recorded. See: https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:chrome/browser/chromeos/note_taking_helper.h;drc=d7a02514bb30afce607817fd2e8ef8a8af559739;l=130

Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status https://chromestatus.com/feature/5205972320518144

This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status.

Mathias Bynens

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Jul 13, 2021, 2:40:50 AM7/13/21
to Glen Robertson, blink-dev
The Intent* email template includes a “Debuggability” section, which is missing in this case. How would web developers debug this new functionality through DevTools? Should anything be added to the existing DevTools → Applications panel? See https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist for context.


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Glen Robertson

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Jul 13, 2021, 11:43:53 AM7/13/21
to blink-dev, Mathias Bynens, blink-dev, Glen Robertson
Hmm, it could be useful to surface the parsed new note URL in dev tools. I will send a CL for that.

FYI no debuggability section was in the email template. I copied it exactly from Chromestatus, and added the release milestone.

Mike West

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Jul 15, 2021, 4:34:35 AM7/15/21
to Glen Robertson, blink-dev
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 5:08 AM Glen Robertson <gle...@chromium.org> wrote:

Contact emails gle...@chromium.org, mgi...@chromium.org

Explainer https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/blob/gh-pages/note_taking-explainer.md

Specification https://wicg.github.io/manifest-incubations/index.html#note_taking-member

API spec Yes

Summary

Parses a web app manifest entry for a URL to open to take a new note in a note-taking web app, allowing OS integrations.

Chrome for desktop release: M93

Blink component Blink

TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/648

TAG review status Pending

Risks


Interoperability and Compatibility

Gecko: No signal

WebKit: No signal

Web developers: No signals

Please ask for signals, as per https://bit.li/blink-signals.
 
Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests? Yes. No required behaviour.

I'm not sure I follow. It doesn't look like any web platform tests contain the string `note_taking`. Even if there's no web-facing behavior this influences, it seems reasonable to add it to a test that verifies its parsing.

Flag name blink::features::kWebAppNoteTaking

Requires code in //chrome? False

In https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1185678, I see quite a bit of code that's landed in //chrome/browser/{chromeos,web_applications, etc}. It seems like this feature depends upon the embedder doing some work to create an integration with a platform-level (or UA-level, I suppose) note-taking application?

Given that, are there platform restrictions on this feature? Or is this limited to a subset of the platforms Blink supports?
 
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Yoav Weiss

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Jul 15, 2021, 5:08:38 AM7/15/21
to blink-dev, Mike West, blink-dev, Glen Robertson
On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:34:35 AM UTC+2 Mike West wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 5:08 AM Glen Robertson <gle...@chromium.org> wrote:

Contact emails gle...@chromium.org, mgi...@chromium.org

Explainer https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/blob/gh-pages/note_taking-explainer.md

Specification https://wicg.github.io/manifest-incubations/index.html#note_taking-member

API spec Yes

Summary

Parses a web app manifest entry for a URL to open to take a new note in a note-taking web app, allowing OS integrations.

Chrome for desktop release: M93

Blink component Blink

TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/648

TAG review status Pending

Risks


Interoperability and Compatibility

Gecko: No signal

WebKit: No signal

Web developers: No signals

Please ask for signals, as per https://bit.li/blink-signals.

Similarly on the developer signals front, we have goo.gle/developer-signals
 
 
Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests? Yes. No required behaviour.

I'm not sure I follow. It doesn't look like any web platform tests contain the string `note_taking`. Even if there's no web-facing behavior this influences, it seems reasonable to add it to a test that verifies its parsing.

Flag name blink::features::kWebAppNoteTaking

Requires code in //chrome? False

In https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1185678, I see quite a bit of code that's landed in //chrome/browser/{chromeos,web_applications, etc}. It seems like this feature depends upon the embedder doing some work to create an integration with a platform-level (or UA-level, I suppose) note-taking application?

Given that, are there platform restrictions on this feature? Or is this limited to a subset of the platforms Blink supports?
 
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Mathias Bynens

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Jul 15, 2021, 5:09:57 AM7/15/21
to Glen Robertson, blink-dev, Glen Robertson
Closing the loop here: Glen landed the DevTools change in https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/devtools/devtools-frontend/+/3023724. Debuggability: check!

Yoav Weiss

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Jul 15, 2021, 5:16:43 AM7/15/21
to blink-dev, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, blink-dev, Glen Robertson
On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:08:38 AM UTC+2 Yoav Weiss wrote:
On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:34:35 AM UTC+2 Mike West wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 5:08 AM Glen Robertson <gle...@chromium.org> wrote:

Reading through the explainer I wonder:
* What happens when 2+ webapps all define note taking capabilities? Which one wins? Or would the UA then present the user with the choice, similar to native apps?
* Is this capability feature detectable? Is there something developers can do when it's not supported? (I'm guessing there's not much they can, but want to confirm)




Specification https://wicg.github.io/manifest-incubations/index.html#note_taking-member

API spec Yes

Summary

Parses a web app manifest entry for a URL to open to take a new note in a note-taking web app, allowing OS integrations.

Chrome for desktop release: M93

Blink component Blink

TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/648

The TAG seem engaged, so it's worthwhile to wait for their feedback.

Glen Robertson

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Jul 20, 2021, 2:27:16 AM7/20/21
to Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
Thanks for your replies.

Regarding signals: I've now requested positions from Mozilla and Webkit, and asked for some help on the web developer front from DevRel.

Regarding web platform tests:
the spec'd behaviour is intentionally that the user agent has no obligation to do anything with the new field. It may use it in some way, or ignore it. The existing spec'd behaviour of the web app manifest parser is that it must ignore unknown fields[*]. Therefore, if we are testing compliance with the spec, I don't think there is new behaviour to test here. If you think I should add a note-taking-specific WPT test anyway I can.
*: I can't see a test for this, so I sent a CL. And another CL for adding a similar check in manifest_parser_unittest, because manual WPT tests aren't very reassuring!

Re: "Requires code in //chrome? False" / OS integrations:
I wasn't quite sure about the intent of this question. The spec doesn't require any code in chrome, and the field is parsed on all platforms, but we do have code in //chrome to do an OS integration with it.
The OS integration is on Chrome OS only: it shows the app in the list of note-taking apps in CrOS settings (already existed for note-taking Chrome Apps, but only visible if you have a stylus or --force-enable-stylus-tools) and, if selected by the user in that list, the app can be launched from the stylus palette in the toolbar.

What happens when 2+ webapps all define note taking capabilities?
The spec doesn't define any required behaviour from the UA upon detecting a note-taking app. It is similarly up to the UA what to do with multiple note-taking apps. In CrOS the list of note-taking apps are shown in stylus settings and the user may select one to be used with the stylus palette.

Is this capability feature detectable?
No. If it's not supported then note-taking web apps just operate like any other web app.

I'll wait on feedback from TAG and developer/vendor signals.

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Colin Blundell

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Jul 21, 2021, 10:57:31 AM7/21/21
to Glen Robertson, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
Hi Glen,

Comment inline about the "requires code in //chrome?" question.

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:27 AM Glen Robertson <gle...@chromium.org> wrote:
Thanks for your replies.

Regarding signals: I've now requested positions from Mozilla and Webkit, and asked for some help on the web developer front from DevRel.

Regarding web platform tests:
the spec'd behaviour is intentionally that the user agent has no obligation to do anything with the new field. It may use it in some way, or ignore it. The existing spec'd behaviour of the web app manifest parser is that it must ignore unknown fields[*]. Therefore, if we are testing compliance with the spec, I don't think there is new behaviour to test here. If you think I should add a note-taking-specific WPT test anyway I can.
*: I can't see a test for this, so I sent a CL. And another CL for adding a similar check in manifest_parser_unittest, because manual WPT tests aren't very reassuring!

Re: "Requires code in //chrome? False" / OS integrations:
I wasn't quite sure about the intent of this question. The spec doesn't require any code in chrome, and the field is parsed on all platforms, but we do have code in //chrome to do an OS integration with it.
The OS integration is on Chrome OS only: it shows the app in the list of note-taking apps in CrOS settings (already existed for note-taking Chrome Apps, but only visible if you have a stylus or --force-enable-stylus-tools) and, if selected by the user in that list, the app can be launched from the stylus palette in the toolbar. 

Good question! I just sent out information about this field. The intent is for feature developers to reply "yes" here if their feature has implementation code in //chrome, even if that's for functionality on top of the spec. The reason is that other //content embedders might want to mirror that functionality.

Thanks,

Colin
 

Glen Robertson

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Jul 22, 2021, 3:15:19 AM7/22/21
to Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
Thanks for the clarification! In that case, the answer is definitely "yes". crbug.com/1185678 is a good record of code added to support the feature, though it relies on existing code that supported note-taking Chrome Apps.
If possible, it would be nice to have a brief version of the question's intent shown in the I2S template generated by Chromestatus!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAMGE5NHhMmhWq%3DBj9_YrSeWD2uBX5Qr17mMp-ccFHEWOumnBOQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Colin Blundell

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Jul 22, 2021, 12:16:34 PM7/22/21
to Glen Robertson, Jason Robbins, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 9:15 AM Glen Robertson <gle...@chromium.org> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification! In that case, the answer is definitely "yes". crbug.com/1185678 is a good record of code added to support the feature, though it relies on existing code that supported note-taking Chrome Apps.
If possible, it would be nice to have a brief version of the question's intent shown in the I2S template generated by Chromestatus!

Thanks for the feedback! I assume that you mean something like: "Reply "yes" here if your feature has any implementation code in //chrome, even if that's for functionality on top of the spec, so that other //content embedders can be aware of that functionality." ?

+Jason Robbins, would you be able to add this?

Thanks,

Colin

Chris Harrelson

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Jul 22, 2021, 3:28:08 PM7/22/21
to Glen Robertson, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 11:27 PM Glen Robertson <gle...@chromium.org> wrote:
Thanks for your replies.

Regarding signals: I've now requested positions from Mozilla and Webkit, and asked for some help on the web developer front from DevRel.

Thank you. Could you post the links for Mozilla and Webkit here?
 

Glen Robertson

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Jul 22, 2021, 8:24:19 PM7/22/21
to Chris Harrelson, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
Thanks for the feedback! I assume that you mean something like: "Reply "yes" here if your feature has any implementation code in //chrome, even if that's for functionality on top of the spec, so that other //content embedders can be aware of that functionality." ?
Yes, please!

These are linked from Chromestatus too.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw_X7XdMvHCy0Y3pYGnJ9QJxeYT7ygfj2v18Mq7eVKaosw%40mail.gmail.com.

Jason Robbins

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Jul 27, 2021, 8:14:05 PM7/27/21
to Colin Blundell, Glen Robertson, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
Sure.  I have a pull request in review for the additional field-level help text:

Thanks,
jason!

Colin Blundell

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Jul 28, 2021, 10:44:09 AM7/28/21
to Jason Robbins, Glen Robertson, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West
On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 2:14 AM Jason Robbins <jrob...@google.com> wrote:
Sure.  I have a pull request in review for the additional field-level help text:

Thanks,
jason!

Looks great, thank you!

Alex Russell

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Jul 29, 2021, 3:22:34 PM7/29/21
to blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Glen Robertson, Yoav Weiss, blink-dev, Mike West, Jason Robbins
As discussed in today's OWNERS meeting, it would be helpful to get developer signals. It's going to be hard to make a case that we should ship this w/o some form of input from folks who need or want it.

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Glen Robertson

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Aug 2, 2021, 4:12:37 AM8/2/21
to Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins
There was a generally positive reaction on the DevRel tweet about it.
We also have a 1P app that is already using it in beta internally (internal CL).
There was some platform developer discussion here that led us to the current design, but that was platform developers, not app developers.

Is there some other avenue I can follow to get more feedback on the API?

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Glen Robertson

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Aug 9, 2021, 10:13:29 PM8/9/21
to Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins
Is there any more needed from me here? M93 stable cut is coming up in about 2 weeks and it would be nice to avoid delaying this to the next release if possible.

There are still no responses from Mozilla or Webkit on the standards positions requests, but the DevRel tweet has positive responses (38 likes and a positive reply).
TAG hasn't made any recommendations yet, beyond asking for clarifications in the explainer (which I have done).

Alex Russell

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Aug 10, 2021, 2:51:20 PM8/10/21
to blink-dev, Glen Robertson, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins, Alex Russell
hey Glen,

I've reached out to teams here at MSFT to see if there are other folks who need something similar, but don't have much to report.

Given that this is a manifest change, it seems relatively low risk but the lack of developer interest is a red flag. Is there a reason this shouldn't go to OT first?

Regards


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Glen Robertson

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Aug 11, 2021, 3:23:39 AM8/11/21
to Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins
Thanks for checking around MSFT, Alex.

The reason we didn't go with an OT here was because the API seemed small and uncontroversial and unlikely to change shape. We already had an interested internal customer (plus there are many other note-taking web apps out there, and existing users of the similar feature for note-taking Chrome Apps). I didn't think it fit any of the bullet points under "Should you run an origin trial?" (perhaps the default assumption in that documentation should be flipped to "you should run an OT unless in exceptional circumstances"?).

If lack of interest is a problem we can disable the flag for M93 and start an OT in M94 instead. Blink Leads, please let me know if that is required.

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Alex Russell

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Aug 12, 2021, 4:16:36 PM8/12/21
to blink-dev, Glen Robertson, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins, Alex Russell
hey Glen,

We discussed again today in the OWNERs meeting and it seems like a good idea to get stronger developer signals here one way or another. I'm LGTM if you want to run an OT instead of shipping directly to do that, else we can engage with our various developer relations teams to see if there's some way to drum up support for the design as-is.

Thoughts?

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Glen Robertson

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Aug 12, 2021, 11:34:55 PM8/12/21
to Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins
Thanks Alex.
I'd prefer to ship instead of OT if reasonable, so I've asked a few note-taking-web-app developers directly if they're interested and made a github issue for them to post on (I feel like there wasn't an obvious avenue/CTA for them to publicly express support before). I've also asked DevRel if they will point people at that link.

I'll give that a few days and will fall back to an OT (in M94) if we don't see sufficient interest expressed.

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Glen Robertson

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Aug 15, 2021, 10:28:59 PM8/15/21
to Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Mike West, Jason Robbins
There have been some expressions of interest on the github issue (including some fairly sizable apps). There were also some suggestions to use a more generalised interface, but I'm still convinced by the arguments made in the explainer (summarized from discussion with other web platform devs) that a specific, top-level field is appropriate. This is more along the lines of bike-shedding so I don't think an OT would help settle the discussion.

Is this now sufficient developer interest to ship?

Mike West

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Aug 19, 2021, 3:33:48 PM8/19/21
to Glen Robertson, Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Jason Robbins
LGTM1.

In general, I agree with Alex's suggestion that we should be gathering developer feedback via OT, and particularly in cases where there's only marginally web-exposed surface so that we get developers exercising the embedder-level integration points to give y'all feedback on whether or not those integration points meet their expectations.

That said, I don't see much value in an OT for this particular API given the way that its web-exposed surface is really all about spelling. I'm also a little concerned that an OT would be non-trivial to implement, given the fact that we'll be well outside of any particular document context at the point when the integration would be executed. So, I think it's reasonable to bypass in this particular case.

-mike

Alex Russell

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Aug 19, 2021, 7:45:41 PM8/19/21
to blink-dev, Mike West, Alex Russell, blink-dev, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Jason Robbins, Glen Robertson
LGTM2, but I just want to make it clear that I don't think this is a strong precedent for weak cases for manifest extensions in future.

The risk here isn't high, but neither is my confidence in the design. An OT for future designs like these, or a strong up-front case from developers for it, would help avoid delays.

Regards

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Chris Harrelson

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Aug 19, 2021, 7:51:13 PM8/19/21
to Alex Russell, blink-dev, Mike West, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Jason Robbins, Glen Robertson
LGTM3

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Glen Robertson

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Aug 19, 2021, 9:58:27 PM8/19/21
to Chris Harrelson, Alex Russell, blink-dev, Mike West, Colin Blundell, Yoav Weiss, Jason Robbins
Thanks very much!


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