Contact emails
micha...@chromium.org, klo...@chromium.org
Spec
brand-color
<meta name=’brand-color’ content=’#0000ff’’>
The content attribute can be any named color or hex color value, the agent could adjust the color if it is not proper for display, i.e. extremely bright.
Summary
The brand-color is the color of the brand, browser may use it when a distinct color representation is needed.
Motivation
Supporting brand-color gives great user experience. IE 10 has meta tag mapplication-navbutton-color, Apple has apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style, they are similar to brand-color, but use in different places.
Compatibility Risk
Low.
Ongoing technical constraints
None.
Will this feature be supported on all five Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS and Android)?
No, only be supported on Android, I didn’t see the reason for other platforms need this features.
OWP launch tracking bug?
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=383941.
Link to entry on the feature dashboard
http://www.chromestatus.com/features/5398016231997440
Requesting approval to ship?
Yes
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Specs aren't requirements for intent-to-impl.
Where is the spec for this feature? Have you sent an email to public-webapps@ or whatwg@?
On Thursday, June 12, 2014 3:21:28 PM UTC-4, Elliott Sprehn wrote:Where is the spec for this feature? Have you sent an email to public-webapps@ or whatwg@?Added a feature request for inclusion in W3C's webapps's manifest format:Happy to discuss details there if you guys want to standardize this as part of the manifest.
On the Gecko side, we are generally not in favor of adding more meta tags to do this kind of thing, so it's pretty unlikely we would ship this feature as currently proposed here.
If you guys are going to ship it anyway, then I kindly ask that you prefix it with `blink-` or something to clearly indicate that this is a proprietary feature.
On Jun 12, 2014 4:43 PM, "'Adam Barth' via blink-dev" <blin...@chromium.org> wrote:
> In any case, the bar for introducing new meta extensions to the web platform is quite like (e.g., edit the MetaExtensions wiki page). As far as I know, there isn't any tradition of waiting for consensus from other browser vendors in this area.
Most meta extensions are worthless for the greater web, and are used only by some tiny subset of pages in an intranet or single domain, intended to be processed by some tiny proprietary tool. That's quite a bit different from one like this, which is intended to be respected by browsers, and ideally by all browser's in the same way. Something like this ticks all the boxes for "cross-browser coordination warranted", like any other new web platform feature.
~TJ
There was a WHATWG thread about this already:
In that recommendation, the properties "color" and "image" are introduced.
Contact emails
micha...@chromium.org, klo...@chromium.org
Spec
brand-color
<meta name=’brand-color’ content=’#0000ff’’>
The content attribute can be any named color or hex color value, the agent could adjust the color if it is not proper for display, i.e. extremely bright.
Summary
The brand-color is the color of the brand, browser may use it when a distinct color representation is needed.
Motivation
Supporting brand-color gives great user experience. IE 10 has meta tag mapplication-navbutton-color, Apple has apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style, they are similar to brand-color, but use in different places.
Compatibility Risk
Low.
Ongoing technical constraints
None.
Will this feature be supported on all five Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS and Android)?
No, only be supported on Android, I didn’t see the reason for other platforms need this features.
I agree that color sounds better than brand-color but it feels rather generic.I almost took the 色彩検定 and from what I remember, a color scheme can generally be characterized by the following components:
- the subordinate, or base color
- the dominant color
- an accent, or highlight color
It sounds like we are talking about a "dominant-color" here.Maybe it's worth considering the other 2 as well.
Even if the manifest is acquired async, the experience doesn't need to be jarring as the color change could be animated gradually once the manifest is applied.
Most meta extensions are worthless for the greater web, and are used only by some tiny subset of pages in an intranet or single domain, intended to be processed by some tiny proprietary tool. That's quite a bit different from one like this, which is intended to be respected by browsers, and ideally by all browser's in the same way. Something like this ticks all the boxes for "cross-browser coordination warranted", like any other new web platform feature.
"Anyone is free to edit the WHATWG Wiki MetaExtensions page at any time to add a type."
FWIW this could be useful on ChromeOS, and in future possibly the other desktop platforms.
I definitely agree that "color" is much better than "brand-color." The idea that I wouldn't use this for my personal website, because only "brands" can use it, is silly.
I agree that color sounds better than brand-color but it feels rather generic.I almost took the 色彩検定 and from what I remember, a color scheme can generally be characterized by the following components:
- the subordinate, or base color
- the dominant color
- an accent, or highlight color
It sounds like we are talking about a "dominant-color" here.Maybe it's worth considering the other 2 as well.
This conversation belongs in a Web standards mailing list.
I support this view as well. We should no longer encourage web developers to add more meta tags.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. <jacka...@gmail.com> wrote:
Most meta extensions are worthless for the greater web, and are used only by some tiny subset of pages in an intranet or single domain, intended to be processed by some tiny proprietary tool. That's quite a bit different from one like this, which is intended to be respected by browsers, and ideally by all browser's in the same way. Something like this ticks all the boxes for "cross-browser coordination warranted", like any other new web platform feature.I support this view as well. Polluting the web with more meta tags, specifically ones that apply to browsers and especially ones that potentially apply to more than one browser must be a result of consensus and not just a wiki addition.
Web developers want interoperability, not adding more and more code because browsers could not (and never tried to) agree on a name or on a behavior.
A rhetorical question - have you seen the size of CSS files used by websites that support all of the (mobile and non mobile, iOS and non iOS) browsers since iOS 4 got released when they show you a CSS based gradient?
"Anyone is free to edit the WHATWG Wiki MetaExtensions page at any time to add a type."Just because this generic text is included, it does not mean it applies to any meta extension.
There is a specific purpose for these meta extensions and brand-color (or whatever it will be called) goes well beyond that purpose.
Do you know if many sites adopted <meta name="color">?
It doesn't look like you added it to the MetaExtensions registry after proposing it on to the WhatWG.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. <jacka...@gmail.com> wrote:
Most meta extensions are worthless for the greater web, and are used only by some tiny subset of pages in an intranet or single domain, intended to be processed by some tiny proprietary tool. That's quite a bit different from one like this, which is intended to be respected by browsers, and ideally by all browser's in the same way. Something like this ticks all the boxes for "cross-browser coordination warranted", like any other new web platform feature.I support this view as well. Polluting the web with more meta tags, specifically ones that apply to browsers and especially ones that potentially apply to more than one browser must be a result of consensus and not just a wiki addition.Your view is different from the view of the specification that defines such things. Perhaps we should continue this part of the discussion in the WhatWG? One possible outcome is that we change the HTML Living Standard to define which sorts of MetaExtensions require agreement before being added to the registry and which sorts can be added at any time by anyone.
Web developers want interoperability, not adding more and more code because browsers could not (and never tried to) agree on a name or on a behavior.
I agree that interoperability is an important goal. I wish Apple hadn't picked the name apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style for a similar MetaExtension in Safari. We're hesitant to adopt that MetaExtension because (1) it's vendor-prefixed, (2) it's limited to mobile web apps (see Ben's comment earlier on this thread), and (3) it's prescriptive about the UI treatment rather than descriptive about the semantics of the color.
Maybe we'll fail to interest web developers in describing their brand-color, but maybe we'll get enough developers interested that Mobile Safari will add support for wiring brand-color up to their status bar style. My hope is that we'll eventually end up with interoperability and authors will be able to supply fewer meta tags.
If I were working on this feature, I'd probably take the approach you describe of building consensus with other vendors before implementing the feature. However, the people working on this feature haven't chosen this path. We can speculate as to why, but I don't think that's a productive discussion to have on a public mailing list. Instead, I'd like to be supportive and help them engage productively with the community so that in the future their more likely to take a more consensus-based approach.
A rhetorical question - have you seen the size of CSS files used by websites that support all of the (mobile and non mobile, iOS and non iOS) browsers since iOS 4 got released when they show you a CSS based gradient?I agree that CSS gradients were poorly handled and have caused much sadness, but that's off-topic for this thread.
"Anyone is free to edit the WHATWG Wiki MetaExtensions page at any time to add a type."Just because this generic text is included, it does not mean it applies to any meta extension.If you read what I wrote, I don't think it's appropriate to use this path for every MetaExtensions. For example, I wouldn't support this path for viewport because it has elaborate interactions with web content. However, brand-color has neither elaborate nor subtle interactions with web content. It's just a color that browsers can use to theme their UI if they think it will improve the user experience.
There is a specific purpose for these meta extensions and brand-color (or whatever it will be called) goes well beyond that purpose.I don't agree with a teleological view of the universe, but now we're talking philosophy.
Adam
Thank you for taking the time to respond in detail! Comments inline.
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Adam Barth <aba...@google.com> wrote:
On Fri Jun 13 2014 at 12:57:19 AM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:I support this view as well. We should no longer encourage web developers to add more meta tags.I disagree with that as a general statement. For example, if we were introducing the viewport meta tag today, should we put that information in the manifest instead of in a meta tag? I don't think the manifest is a good fit for the viewport meta tag because the manifest is fetched asynchronously and the viewport information has a large influence over the visual appearance of the page. If we put the viewport information in the manifest, we'd either need to block rendering on fetching the manifest or we'd need to flash a rendering of the page at the wrong width and scale while we waited for the manifest to arrive over the network.The manifest doesn't address all the same use cases as meta elements. For that reason, sometimes the best design for a feature will be to introduce a new meta element and sometimes the best design will be to introduce a new key in the manifest. We'll need to study each feature individually and decide which mechanism best addresses its use case.
The viewport example is actually a pretty bad example if I understand correctly, because it was not a result of a consensus (Apple simply introduced it and others just had to follow if they wanted the web pages to display properly in their browsers) and not only that - it is now being standardized as a CSS at-rule instead. This heavy control of the design and zoom (and more, I do not remember) does not count as metadata to me.
Regarding brand-color, perhaps this should also be an at-rule. It is a stylistic concept, after all. This can help make it nicely dynamic (if the page changes its background color to convey a certain idea, so would the brand color, in order to match the atmosphere) with a known API and use known properties that convey specific ideas (color for text color and icon tints and background or background-color specifically for background related styles).
Your view is different from the view of the specification that defines such things. Perhaps we should continue this part of the discussion in the WhatWG? One possible outcome is that we change the HTML Living Standard to define which sorts of MetaExtensions require agreement before being added to the registry and which sorts can be added at any time by anyone.
Well, metadata is supposed to be metadata, not concepts that change something stylistic (for example). It has been abused to include these stuff, that is not metadata and adding them as such was simply abusing the whole purpose of meta tags.
If I were working on this feature, I'd probably take the approach you describe of building consensus with other vendors before implementing the feature. However, the people working on this feature haven't chosen this path. We can speculate as to why, but I don't think that's a productive discussion to have on a public mailing list. Instead, I'd like to be supportive and help them engage productively with the community so that in the future their more likely to take a more consensus-based approach.
However, if it is not standardized, this does not belong in Blink, so I think this discussion (in the standards bodies) is actually crucial to the acceptance of the feature.
Yes, people should be encouraged to propose ideas here - of course - but we should direct them to the right place - the standards bodies - unless we are totally against that (though, even then, we should still direct them to the right place, because we do not know everything, obviously).If you are talking about getting a general sense of the usefulness and acceptance of the feature among the community, then, yes, this is the right place - but I do no think an intent to implement (let alone an intent to ship) is the right approach for getting a general sense. A simple probing thread about it would have drawn much less rudeness from the community. I agree that the responses were out of line.
Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2014 20:44:56 UTC+2 schrieb PhistucK:Regarding brand-color, perhaps this should also be an at-rule. It is a stylistic concept, after all.
Indeed, it's about styling and belongs to CSS. And styling just a single color doesn't cover much usecases.It should be a special kind of Media Feature that requires a separate stylesheet but is invalid inside other stylesheets.So you can do things like this simply in markup without mixing up UI and content styling:<style media="UI-mobile"> /* add styling for your brand-color here */ </style>or<link rel=stylesheet media="UI-mobile" href="...">@media UI-mobile {} (or whatever name the beast could have) should be invalid (ignored) inside content stylesheets.
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. <jacka...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Most meta extensions are worthless for the greater web, and are used only
>>> by some tiny subset of pages in an intranet or single domain, intended to be
>>> processed by some tiny proprietary tool. That's quite a bit different from
>>> one like this, which is intended to be respected by browsers, and ideally by
>>> all browser's in the same way. Something like this ticks all the boxes for
>>> "cross-browser coordination warranted", like any other new web platform
>>> feature.
>>
>> I support this view as well. Polluting the web with more meta tags,
>> specifically ones that apply to browsers and especially ones that
>> potentially apply to more than one browser must be a result of consensus and
>> not just a wiki addition.
>
> Your view is different from the view of the specification that defines such
> things. Perhaps we should continue this part of the discussion in the
> WhatWG? One possible outcome is that we change the HTML Living Standard to
> define which sorts of MetaExtensions require agreement before being added to
> the registry and which sorts can be added at any time by anyone.
No, it's not. The HTML spec deferring to the wiki for name
registration is for random proprietary <meta> values. Adding new
*browser-supported* <meta> values is a completely different beast, and
you know that;
attempting to point to definitions to make your point
is not a useful move.
I'm not sure why you're trying to say that it's
unimportant to get at least *minimal* consensus between implementors
on a name for something that is expected to be implemented by multiple
browsers. This is something which was proposed yesterday with zero
announcement, no design doc (*still* no design doc, that is, which
violates our processes), and no indication that this was even
mentioned to other browsers. It's clearly not proprietary, but you're
acting like it is.
This isn't hard. You don't need to get a spec to Rec. This just needs
to follow the project's established processes, and standard
good-neighbor behaviors.
People in various forums have given the feedback that they don't think "brand-color" is an appropriate name. Could you share your thoughts on that?
I'm not quite sure why we're even discussing this here.
This feature has basically zero affect on Blink. (I doubt you'll even
add Blink code to support it since it's always possible to just run JS
'document.getElementsByTagName('meta') and search for the one you
want.)
I'm sure there is a relevant web-standards discussion to be had. But
that discussion is about getting two browser/OS vendors to agree to
look for the same meta tag. Since there aren't necessarily the
relevant vendor representatives on this list, this is probably the
wrong place to have that discussion.
As far as I'm concerned, feel free to write Android/Chrome code to
look for "brand-color" in web pages and change the look of your
Blink-based browser based on the content of that "branch-color" tag.
In my opinion the name isn't worth bike-shedding over. If you feel
you need my LGTM to do that, you certainly have it. :)
I think if there is further discussion to be had here, we should take
it to a more neutral forum, and leave this list to discuss more
pressing technical issues of Blink.
As Adam's suggestion, we wanted this feature to be developer friendly and reviewed the suggested name, finally, came out 'theme-color'.
Ditto, LGTM
Yes, the implementation pretty matches the spec except the head element thing mentioned by Adam.
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