I'm extremely surprised you stopped talking to us. January 15, 2015, I
told you that focusing on a specific extension, sharing in particular,
would much more likely to be successful since it's easier to get the
UX right. We're now a year and a half further and you're proposing to
do exactly that without having ever really gotten back to us, as far
as I can tell.
On top of that, some of us at Mozilla had proposed going after sharing
back in 2014:
https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Sharing
https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Sharing/API
Having said that, if the sharing is just with native that does not
seem super interesting.
The original Ballista explainer addresses Web Intents:
(But a lot of that is not relevant in the simple share case.)
The main lesson we're being repeatedly told is to not be over-ambitious. The generality of Web Intents meant the UI was hard to get right, and it was hard to get buy-in on the web developer side.
The Share proposal is just a simple sharing API, that doesn't require web receivers in order to be useful.
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I can be wrong and I didn't read all the docs yet, but isn't it bad to tie this API to WebAppManifest and to SW? I mean, Safari may never have SW and app manifest, but may want to implement Share API.
So if the UI for Web Intents was hard to get right on all platforms, and at the same time you indicated that you'd only ship once you have a non-Android implementation, how will the UX look like on non-Android?
Oh, so the plan is to eventually ship on platforms that natively support sharing first? Matt, could you please clarify that?
FWIW, I think some of us at Mozilla have concerns about making features require manifest. It would be nice to also support meta tags or a js API.
In any case it would be great to resume collaborating on this. I think a bunch of people are travelling now, but maybe we can do a video call in coming weeks?
Thanks!
Ben
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WebShare (the part proposed here) doesn't interact with the manifest at all, no?
WebShare (the part proposed here) doesn't interact with the manifest at all, no?
Ben Kelly <bke...@mozilla.com> schrieb am Di., 21. Juni 2016, 14:56:FWIW, I think some of us at Mozilla have concerns about making features require manifest. It would be nice to also support meta tags or a js API.
In any case it would be great to resume collaborating on this. I think a bunch of people are travelling now, but maybe we can do a video call in coming weeks?
On Jun 22, 2016 3:32 AM, "Matt Giuca" <mgi...@chromium.org> wrote:
>> Ben Kelly <bke...@mozilla.com> schrieb am Di., 21. Juni 2016, 14:56:
>>>
>>> FWIW, I think some of us at Mozilla have concerns about making features require manifest. It would be nice to also support meta tags or a js API.
>
> We could do that. One of the reasons we want the manifest is because then the data about what things the site can handle is declarative and associated with the whole site (not individual pages).
>
> Using meta is still declarative, but then it's associated with individual pages which is not ideal when we're talking about what things the service worker can handle (there is no HTML page that is directly involved with Web Share Target API, so it seems odd that you would declare it in an HTML page). Using a JS API is non-declarative which makes it hard to index, and hard for the browser to control when to prompt the user. But I'm open to all of these things. Note that this is not relevant to the Web Share API being proposed.
Sorry, I was referring to the target proposal.
I'll have to look in more detail after I'm back, but it seems maybe a target API could live on the service worker registration like the push subscription. Sites could choose to add the share target when it's most appropriate just like they do with push. At first glance these use cases seem kind of similar.
I'll touch base next week. Marcos also lives in Australia, though, so maybe he would be a good point of contact.
Thanks!
Ben
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Elliott Sprehn <esp...@chromium.org> wrote:
> That's the benefit of splitting the feature into sharing outward only to
> native to start. For that we can show the native share dialog/sheet that
> users would see in Android or iOS apps. To allow Web->Web or Native->Web
> sharing it'll require something different.
I think the big difference is that iOS and Android offer a button at
the system-level. It's not really triggered by a site, but by the user
invoking browser (system) UI. This is also the UI Safari on a Mac
offers.
That was the kind of UI our work from back in 2014 tried to target as
well (and Firefox has experimented with too).
This proposal requires integration from both those that have something
to share and from those it can be shared with, which seems much
trickier to successfully deploy.
I'm also not convinced it gives the
right user experience as you lose the button that users are getting
familiarized with.
In a way this proposal is still Ballista, except now share is part of
the API names, rather than a parameter.
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