Constructive Criticism

[4K]

My experience so far with Camect has been mixed. There are some huge strengths, but also some weaknesses that in my opinion make it not ready for a major release to the general public. I'd like to take some time to mention what I'd like to see Camect improve on have some general questions and comments at the end. I'm also hoping others will provide more feedback so together we can help the Camect team with prioritizing improvements.

User Interface: Camect is described as being easy and smart, but has a complicated user interface which can result in worse alert performance, making the system not as smart. I'll continue with my observations and suggestions on the user interface below.

Home: If someone just has one home, taking them there in the first place rather than making them select it would eliminate a step.

Alert Zones: Camect does not offer an easy solution to choose the area where you want it to provide an alert.

There is a rating system which is easy to use but might not always make the system smarter since the green box around the detected object isn't always accurate which won't create an accurate alert zone. There is a solution, located in the "Learning More about Camect" document under "A Detailed Example: Alert Zones": https://camect.com/welcome/, which can provide more accurate alerts, but is not easy to find since the option is hidden under "manage ratings". There also isn't a way to delete an alert zone that was created without starting over again, as noted here:  https://groups.google.com/a/camect.com/d/msg/forum/cMb0HSu9d-U/-hfgDqlZAQAJ

My suggestion is for Camect to offer a simple setup (the rating method, currently in place) with an explanation that alert performance might suffer and an advanced option with the alert zone creator in an easy to find place (such as during the initial setup and then also under home and camera settings). I'd also like to see Camect add an the option to delete an alert zone that was already created without starting from the beginning.

Disabling Auto-Suppression: I'd like to see an easier method for disabling auto-suppression other than through the rating system along with more detailed auto-suppression settings based on the number of occurrences from a certain object within a certain time period on a particular camera.

Simplified Alerts: If offering more simplified alerts would improve accuracy, then maybe Camect could focus on what is most important to the most people ("delivery vehicle" for FedEx, UPS, USPS, Amazon, DHL, and Royal Mail, "small animal" instead of cat, dog, fly, mouse, rabbit, raccoon, skunk, spider, and squirrel, and "large animal" instead of bear and deer). This could become the default setting for new users, with a beta option for those who want to enable the others (so the user would understand the beta version might confuse a dog and a cat, but on the default mode "small animal" should be accurate and cover both).

Date & Time on Saved Video: I'd like to see an option to add the date and time on a video that is being downloaded.

Viewing Alerts: There's a snapshot option when viewing the system-wide alerts but not a download option and the opposite is true when viewing an individual camera. If Camect could add the missing option to each that could reduce a step for the user.

Quick Review and Summarized Video: I'd like to see Camect combine both Quick Review and Summarized Video to make it easier for the user, but have addressed them separately below.

Quick Review: This feature isn't really that helpful right now, since the review is at such varying speeds and also doesn't offer customization. I'd like to see the following options added to the quick review feature:

View all footage (regardless of motion) at a consistent speed just slowing down for motion anywhere in the camera's field of view (with the option to choose just the alert zone).

View all footage (regardless of motion) at a consistent speed just slowing down for smart alerts anywhere in the camera's field of view (with the option to choose just the alert zone).

View all motion at a consistent speed just slowing down for smart alerts anywhere in the camera's field of view (with the option to choose just the alert zone).

View all smart alerts anywhere in the camera's field of view (with the option to choose just the alert zone).

Quick Review > Download Button: If you choose "Quick Review" a download option will appear which the user might think would download the Quick Review, but it will actually download the full video. My suggestion to Camect is to add the download option when the timeline is selected, along with the markers which are already there. If the user were to select the download option without using the markers it would download the full video. If they choose the Quick Review option and then the download icon without using the markers it would just download the Quick Review video.

Summarized Video Download: This is a great feature, but is hidden and is confusing. For example, it doesn't explain the meaning behind "Bytes limit" which also isn't mentioned in the welcome documents, and in my testing doesn't seem to make a difference. It also doesn't save the user's latest setting. My suggestion to Camect is to explain the "Bytes limit" if the option is necessary and save the user's most recent setting.

Video Download Options: I'd like to see Camect allow the user to download a video based on length (such as an hour video in ten minute portions) or file size (such as 1 GB).

Beta Subscription Discount: In my opinion, Camect is not ready to offer a paid subscription and isn't ready to sell on Amazon or elsewhere due to its complicated user interface and numerous false alerts. My suggestion is for Camect to work on improving the user interface to make it easier to use and to offer simplified alerts to improve accuracy, as mentioned earlier. After that, Camect could offer their standard pricing, but offer a beta subscription where all alerts are enabled by default and each time there is a false alert (not due to user error) the user can submit it to Camect in exchange for a free one-day extension of their subscription. If they end up having one false alert each day their subscription would then be free. This is a good compromise since customers paying full price would receive more accurate alerts (if my assumption that simplified alerts would increase accuracy is correct) with an easier user interface, and beta users willing to submit their footage would receive free service in exchange for helping and for the inconvenience.

General Questions and Comments:

According to the "Learning More about Camect" document "After an alert occurs, Camect currently needs to see at least a tiny period in which no detected object is moving before being ready to send another alert notification. Thus if a car shows up and is continuously moving, a person stepping out of the car may not generate a separate “person” notification."

If someone has "car" set as uninteresting but "person" set as interesting would this mean if Camect detects the car first it won't send an alert for anything because the person was seen soon after the car? If this is the case, when should we expect to see "an option to have Camect send a new notification whenever a new object type shows up during a period of continuous activity." as mentioned in that document?

 How is a user supposed to know if Camect can handle another camera, other than plugging it in and trying it? How can Camect improve the system to help a user understand if it can handle another camera?  

 How do you zoom in on live or recorded video? I've tried and can't figure it out. 

Possible Bug: If something interesting is seen in the alert zone Camect has also been sending an alert for something seen outside of the zone. For example, if a squirrel is set as interesting and a car is seen outside of the alert zone at the same time Camect will also send an alert for the car. If this is not a known issue I'll check to see if something is wrong on my end.

Possible Bug: When opening the Camect application on Android it will stop audio from playing in the background (such as on a music app) even though "Fetch audio from camera" is disabled within Home Settings.

Camect's team is excellent and it's obvious they really care about improving the product and taking feedback from their customers. I'd like to eventually see Camect for sale at Walmart, on Amazon, and see them become a major competitor as people see the benefits.

I'd like to hear what you all think, whether you agree or disagree with some of what I've mentioned our discussion can help the Camect team with their future planning. If you think something mentioned here is deserving of its own topic, let me know and I'll start another to discuss that particular subject matter.

[Eric Meeson]

To address a couple of your points:

When I open the app on my phone (Android) or desktop, I drop straight into an all camera mosaic view. Not sure why that doesn't happen for you.

Date and time is in the downloaded video as a subtitle track rather than overlayed. Clicking the "show subtitles" option in your player will pop up the timestamp.

Not sure if it's expected or not, but when I pull into the driveway and get out of the car I get both a "car" and "person" notification back to back.

You can't zoom on video that I know of on desktop, that would be a nice feature. On the Android app I can pinch zoom, but you have to zoom off the playing video and pan onto it which is weird.

Audio stoppage is annoying, but I think that's an Android thing and is because the app has the capability of playing audio, so it gets paused. This happens with my Wyze cams as well even with the audio muted on them.

Hard selection of viewing speed is definitely something that bugs me. I'd like to be able to lock it in at a select speed more easily, and chose a default playback speed (ex: 1x or auto fast forward).

Camera load has been brought up many times and is a bit of a gray area because of how loading is handled. I too would like more information on that, I have a couple cameras that are inside locked buildings with the purpose of recording if someone breaks in and I suspect contribute almost nothing to processing load, but I'm not clear on that.

[CamectArup]

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 9:00:33 AM UTC-7, Eric Meeson wrote:

To address a couple of your points:

When I open the app on my phone (Android) or desktop, I drop straight into an all camera mosaic view. Not sure why that doesn't happen for you.

The default is as he described it, and perhaps we should change it for new users. To get the behavior that you have, you need to click the "expand" icon next to "Homes you own or manage" and also click the "eye" next to the home name to open the home inline on the page.  After that you have the behavior that you have, because both of those settings are remembered. 

[4K]

I'll number these to make it easier:

1) That's not the case for me but CamectArup posted a solution.

2) That's good to know. I'd still like to have the option to add it on the video itself, but at least there is something in place now.

3) I've seen that too and just wasn't sure if that should be expected all the time or not because of what the document stated.

4) It's just zooming in on the browser (or application which is based on the browser). There isn't actual digital zoom yet according to other posts.

5) It's not a problem with tinyCam Monitor on Android. I'm not sure of the solution though, I'm not really familiar with application development.

6) Same.

7) I'm curious if the system could eventually know the highest load it has been under on each camera and give an estimate of what else it could handle (assuming that the highest load on each camera were to happen at the same time again, so the system is expecting the worst case scenario).

[4K]

Thank you, that's really helpful!

[Eric Meeson]

Arup - Now that I look for it, I see that. I guess I just didn't remember doing it because it is persistent.

4K

4) Correct, but if you hit the high quality button first it isn't too bad to zoom into in my opinion.

7) That's actually a cool thought, I like that and second this request.

[4K]

4) You're right, it's totally acceptable.

[4K]

I'm updating this post to add a partial correction and some additional comments and suggestions. Please note that the majority of these are regarding the user interface.

Partial Correction: There is a snapshot button when viewing a clip. My original post said that wasn't an option. That was incorrect. There is a snapshot button, but it won't show unless the video is paused. My suggestion is that the snapshot button be available at any time even if the video is currently playing.

Comments:

1) I've noticed the green box is around much more than the object, including where the object doesn't touch. For example, a vehicle driving on the road might include the green box off of the road even if the vehicle and its shadow did not touch that area. This appears to affect alert detection.

2) I've been spending more time with the alert zone creator and see the problem is not with the user and although adding a delete option would help the problem is greater than that. I've clicked far away from an alert zone and have seen it lock on to a preexisting zone rather than create a new one and have also clicked near a preexisting zone (even on the current red line) and have seen it create a new one instead of extending the current one. It's not at all user friendly. There is a lot of potential with the alert zone though. If it's improved and put in an easier to find location it is really powerful especially since you can choose specifically what to ignore in a particular area. Ring has a "people only" option but nothing more than that unless I'm missing it, making Camect the better choice for customization.

3) Chrome is the recommended browser on Windows and Android but isn't always responsive. For example, when opening the global alert view on a desktop browser there is a scrolling option (correct behavior) but when trying to create an alert zone there is not (which can leave a portion of the scene out of view).

4) My original post expressed dissatisfaction with summarized video and quick review with the suggestion to combine them. I'd still like to see them combined, but for the summarized video increasing the bytes limit makes a much more useful experience. I'd like to see the bytes limit removed or moved to an advanced page because the default limit can actually make the feature useless.

5) After spending a lot more time with Camect it's obvious it's a beta product and not ready for a major launch but it's also clear it's a powerful product and with some adjustments can really gain popularity and good publicity. After some adjustments I'd like to see Camect available on Amazon and other major retailers (for a fast shipping experience) featured on Prime Day 2021, and reviewed on YouTube (Camect can send a box to YouTubers interested in reviewing it). There is also a lot of potential with Camect's own channels (YouTube and social media) since they aren't that active ( #CaughtOnCamect is great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uufet5l4s_U and there are a lot of things that can branch off from that like "The Camect Awards" where people vote on the most interesting or funniest clip and the winner receives a free lifetime subscription or Amazon gift card if they already have a lifetime subscription) Right now is too soon though because I'd expect a major launch to be met with many negative reviews and customer service requests. Indiegogo probably has more advanced users than those shopping on Amazon, and people expect something to just work out of the box and Camect isn't there yet.

If anyone has any comments please share. Please don't be afraid to correct or disagree with me either. ;)

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 8:43:05 PM UTC-4, 4K wrote:

[ZzyzxOh]

I'd be very curious about what you might be comparing it to, since "my opinion" is it seems more mature than anything close to its price range.

There may be commercial products out there that do better, but the software I'd tried don't come close to this feature set.

All software everywhere is forever a work in progress, right? I find it very useful (he says immediately after retrieving the package he observed USPS deliver seconds before).

[4K]

I'm comparing Camect to both cloud-based systems like Nest and Ring and also to wired systems. I'm also trying to think of what someone without much experience with technology might expect to see and what their reaction both if they're happy (good reviews, referring friends and family with the service basically selling itself) and if they're disappointed (bad reviews, a large number of people contacting customer service at once and then getting frustrated with a slow response, high return rate, and losing out on Amazon Prime Day where they require enough positive reviews).

Right now, as another user put it, Camect "is a mix between a product for professionals and consumers.", and they suggested Camect "try to separate functionality a lot more in "day to day" functionality and "expert / setup" functionality." https://groups.google.com/a/camect.com/forum/#!category-topic/forum/tMJXjehoKFg (third post down)

It's good Camect can tell you about your delivery and not bother you in the middle of the night about a tree branch like a wired NVR, but Camect can't download more than 200 MB at a time and doesn't offer the ability to transfer video to a USB drive, which you can find from the most basic wired systems.

Camect has said they're prioritizing based on requests from their users, but said they haven't gotten a request from anyone requesting the ability to transfer video to a USB drive, which they said they've talked internally about offering (which to me is proof that they know it's an important feature) and said they haven't received many false alert submissions. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I've seen some false alerts on their own demos, and here is one recent post where someone else mentioned having problems with shadows (I've had the same problem): https://groups.google.com/a/camect.com/forum/#!category-topic/forum/11RCNFnF_eY  The problem, in my view, is there aren't enough people using the service to submit problems or make feature requests, which makes it look like it's "time to pay" like another user said. If they gained a lot of users at once they'd have many more feature requests and alert submissions but right now in my opinion the service isn't ready to have a large increase to the customer base and could result in some of the negative issues I mentioned above. Camect is more like a beta service, and offering a 50% off subscription during the beta period or a discount for false alert of bug submissions (a free service extension for each legitimate report) makes sense to me. They'd get some money coming in now, but people who are having trouble would be able to get free service if they report enough problems. When they're ready for a major launch after these problems are taken care of I really think the service will sell itself and gain popularity without a problem.

Right now I'd recommend Camect to someone comfortable with technology, Ring and Nest to someone who is not but would like to actively monitor their surroundings, and an NVR to those who just want 24/7 recording and easy back up if something were to happen. I think Camect can become the best of them all but it's just not there yet in my opinion. I agree with you that software is always a work in progress but even though Camect is a good price if it doesn't meet peoples expectations they might get frustrated and just go back to a cloud or NVR system.

[Dolf Starreveld]

While I don't disagree that the UI can use polishing (and that may be a bit of a euphemism), I think the comparison with cloud based platforms is flawed in that it ignores one of the major benefits of Camect over such platforms: no cloud needed! (There are many other benefits, which I won't get into).

I am definitely in the "knowledgeable" category, so for now all this is acceptable to me and for a Kickstarter/Indiegogo approach I think it is ok (for now). Acceptable does not mean I do not want improvements, but I'm willing to work with the team and wait. Having started companies myself, I am keenly aware of limitations between income and run-rate etc. The team could help by publishing a road map... Right now we're all kind of waiting to see what happens in each new release.

Before I had camect I was (and still am) running another NVR solution (I also contributed some code) which is far less capable than Camect (https://github.com/scottlamb/moonfire-nvr) at this time. I had two cases where something happened that Law Enforcement was interested in. With that solution it was very easy to retrieve clips, at native resolution, and hand them off. One of them was over 200MB so I would have had some issues with Camect. So, based on real life experience I would push for this issue to be fixed.

I am not sure if I followed the video retention discussion, or followed it correctly but I would consider it important that video of any "interesting" event, does not get "downgraded" to keeping only a lower resolution unless it absolutely must. The question then becomes when "must" this be done, and I think there is no "one size fits all" solution here. The solution is to give the user some control. For me, personally, for example, I would want to be able to configure that never, ever, is "interesting" event video deleted or downgraded, if it happened in the last 2-3 days. May be just as importantly, I would want the ability, during event review, to be able to mark an event as "retain until manually released". This would allow me to mark an event for "keeping" until I might be able to get to it and be more specific. I would be OK if such events were moved to a secondary storage option (such as NAS).

Something I'll also mention is that I'd like to see a more performant version of the hardware. Even with only 4 1080 cameras UI responsiveness for event review etc. is slow-ish (the circle indicator is seen way too often). I understand that UI service is lower priority than storing incoming video and motion detection etc, but if we're really at the end of improvements here, we need more power, at least as an option. It would also solve the problem for those that want to operate multiple 4K cameras. Yes, you can have more boxes to address the issue, but since there is no smooth integration of multiple boxes where they present as a single platform, that will work, but becomes an annoyance.

I do agree, overall, that to capitalize on the inherent potential here, a lot of stuff needs to be improved or streamlined.

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 6:04:32 PM UTC-7, 4K wrote:

I'm comparing Camect to both cloud-based systems like Nest and Ring and also to wired systems. I'm also trying to think of what someone without much experience with technology might expect to see and what their reaction both if they're happy (good reviews, referring friends and family with the service basically selling itself) and if they're disappointed (bad reviews, a large number of people contacting customer service at once and then getting frustrated with a slow response, high return rate, and losing out on Amazon Prime Day where they require enough positive reviews).

.....

[CamectArup]

If you want to make an honest comparison I think a few facts would help: 

   1. You can download clips of any length you want with Camect, but the clip, if longer than 200 MB will be split into multiple files.

   2. Nest cameras and Ring cameras are all 1080p to the cloud (i.e. even the ones with 4K sensors send a 1080p stream to the cloud)

   3. Nest has a clip length limit of 2 minutes and 30 seconds to a phone/tablet, or 1 hour to a computer. That's a length limit of about 400MB even on the computer. On a 1080p camera with Camect you'll probably get close to half an hour of footage per file. 

   4. Ring doesn't even have continuous recording, so you can't download a clip of more than the few minutes that can fit into a clip. 

We don't have any Ring users as we don't support Ring, but we have several hundred Nest cameras in use with Camect, so at least some set of Nest users are not hating Camect too much. 

[ZzyzxOh]

Of the dozen cameras here, several are Nest and Nest IQ. While they are clearly marketed to the consumer, they do require technical savvy when things go awry. My biggest issue with them is the Cloud provider decides that I have to configure a visual indicator when active or that a lower resolution is just fine for me because the camera uses their Internet. So, a third-party controlling my camera configuration (in two recent cases) was much bigger a deal to me than the fairly high monthly fees they once charged me for the pleasure of storing my files at their data center. But, interesting to note, is that in the time I've owned the Camect it has been paid for by my savings in monthly Cloud recording fees.

What first attracted me to Camect was the multi-vendor support. After dealing for ages with proprietary solutions for each brand of camera I would find it difficult to compare what the nightmare was to where things are now with Camect today. Things are already amazingly better, faster and cheaper and I'd not tied to any single brand of camera. That provides a very nice upgrade option for each camera location as technology progresses.

[4K]

Dolf Starreveld, you made a lot of great points. I'll add a little, but think your post is really a great summary.

I agree with you that there are many benefits. Camect has done a great job at explaining them, so rather than just repeat all of that my goal was to create a post to point out some of what I think they could improve on.

I agree, Camect is acceptable for crowdfunding. What is great about these platforms is that they're getting people who are more understanding and experienced with technology than what they might find on Amazon or eBay. My concern is if they start selling elsewhere they might see a large number of complaints from people who aren't as understanding.

I agree publishing a road map would help and offering a voting feature would too (they said they would offer that but haven't yet but my guess is they are trying to find a forum or help desk software that can implement everything).

I agree with what you said about giving more control over video storage. For most people their current setup should work, but in order to compete with an NVR they should offer full quality recording all the time. I see Camect as being the best of everything (cloud, wired, and even basic business use).

I think your point on hardware is a good one too but that's actually one area that everyone seems most satisfied. There was one post where someone had a problem with their fan but other than that it has been quiet. Still I would like to see a more powerful option like you said but I think they will add that eventually.

[4K]

I just made another post before I saw yours about how Camect is open about the problems with cloud cameras. That's one big strength Camect has, making sure people understand the advantages and disadvantages to each.

I agree Camect is great with their camera support and not needing to use the horrible user interface these companies require is a huge advantage with Camect too. I still don't understand how these manufacturers make such great hardware but can't even have a functional log-in page without a certain browser and plug-in.

[4K]

Thanks for adding those.

For anyone reading my posts please understand they are roughly put together, this is not a professional analysis. If it was I would definitely look at what the competition offers in detail and provide a much better and more organized comparison with more specific suggestions and examples.

Camect thanks for being so open with both the advantages and disadvantages of your service. I would think other companies would just say "compatible with Nest" and leave it at that but you warn your users that the cloud provider could make a change that could stop it from working with Camect and you suggest RTSP capable cameras. Also you are willing to mention things such as that 200 MB file size limit that other companies would probably keep people guessing about. You have proven you value your customers which is a great thing.

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:58:32 PM UTC-4, CamectArup wrote:

[CamectArup]

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 7:56:22 PM UTC-7, 4K wrote:

For anyone reading my posts please understand they are roughly put together, this is not a professional analysis. If it was I would definitely look at what the competition offers in detail and provide a much better and more organized comparison with more specific suggestions and examples.

When you are making "roughly put together" claims, please try to make that part clear. Something as simple as "I think XXX" or saying something like "I've never exported day-long clip from Nest, but I assume you can do it" would help a lot. 

The challenge for us is that if you post claims that sound authoritative but are factually incorrect,  other users who read these posts may assume that there are limitations that don't actually exist. We can only afford to spend a limited amount of time following up to these this vs all the other things we need to work on. 

For the record, I felt that your description of the Camect 200M limit was very misleading vs the reality -- i.e. splitting large clips to 200MB pieces automatically is quite different from requiring you to mark off clips and do the export operation over and over, keeping each one under the limit. I have never tried exporting a long clip in Nest myself, but from their docs, and from this reddit thread it sounds like very much like Nest will give you a way worse experience exporting clips. 

[4K]

Thanks for your feedback.

I don't remember posting anything that was factually incorrect, but if I did then I apologize. I didn't say Ring or Nest could download a day-long clip in one file, but in order to prevent people from assuming that I will try to be more careful with my words.

I'm sorry if my 200 MB post seemed misleading. To me, it is accurate, since there is a file size limit, but you are right I should have said you can download a large video but the system might automatically split it up. Another thing I should have noted is that the camera resolution can make a big difference and most people might never even notice the limit.

If my posts are doing more harm than good please let me know and I will stop.

Again I am sorry if anything I posted that was misleading or inaccurate as that was not my intention.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Jack 7]

Dolf Starreveld wrote:
"Something I'll also mention is that I'd like to see a more performant version of the hardware. Even with only 4 1080 cameras UI responsiveness for event review etc. is slow-ish (the circle indicator is seen way too often). I understand that UI service is lower priority than storing incoming video and motion detection etc, but if we're really at the end of improvements here, we need more power, at least as an option. It would also solve the problem for those that want to operate multiple 4K cameras. Yes, you can have more boxes to address the issue, but since there is no smooth integration of multiple boxes where they present as a single platform, that will work, but becomes an annoyance."

------------
The indiegogo camect faq says "If you're comfortable with technical stuff like installing an OS from scratch, send mail to sup...@camect.com to ask about other possibilities." From what I've read elsewhere, I believe that means installing Camect on a PC with the proper specs.
_______

Dolf Starreveld wrote:
"I had two cases where something happened that Law Enforcement was interested in. With that solution it was very easy to retrieve clips, at native resolution, and hand them off. One of them was over 200MB so I would have had some issues with Camect. So, based on real life experience I would push for this issue to be fixed."!
------------
You could take the multiple files that Camect produces for a large clip and merge them into a single file with a program like VLC.
------------

[Dustin LaFavre]

I'd like to know about installing the software package on a more powerful computer. I have some PCs and a server laying around that I'd love to try it on.

I might try cloning the drive(s) and just try booting it up to see what happens. I'd be happy to do some beta testing with CamectArup on this one too if wanted.

[Graham Bird]

I was amazed to discover - having bought Camect based on it NOT sharing via could etc., that I am OBLIGED to log in with Google or Facebook.

If I had known that ahead of time I would not have bought it.

Why no regular email login?

Cheers

[CamectArup]

Sorry about the surprise. We were planning to add some more options (e.g. github and linkedin) but we had some trouble getting them to work reliably. They're still planned once we have a chance to get back to them.

We're basically using Google / Facebook as an email verification service to avoid to have to run our own and store a password for you in the cloud, etc. You can enable any email address that you can verify for "sign in with Google" -- it doesn't have to be a gmail one. There's a link for where to do this in the Quick Start Guide. 

You're only obligated to activate via a Google or Facebook account so that the device is tied to some form of verified email address. 

After activation, you can create and use a local account for local access if you prefer. To make sure that remote access requires more than just Google credentials, you can also set an "extra password" for cloud-authenticated access. That password never leaves your device, and is known only to you (i.e. not even to Camect) ... so you can secure yourself from any compromise of your Google/Facebook account. (Even Google or Facebook could not use it for access if they wanted to if you set this password.) 

[Graham Bird]

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-4, CamectArup wrote:

Sorry about the surprise. We were planning to add some more options (e.g. github and linkedin) but we had some trouble getting them to work reliably. They're still planned once we have a chance to get back to them.

Hmmm, you think that's better?  :-(. Mortals don't use Github and. LI is for professional connections.

 

We're basically using Google / Facebook as an email verification service to avoid to have to run our own and store a password for you in the cloud, etc. You can enable any email address that you can verify for "sign in with Google" -- it doesn't have to be a gmail one. There's a link for where to do this in the Quick Start Guide. 

I understand why you do it.  It's just flat out wrong. :-(. I have a perfectly good business email and ditto for personal email that I would prefer to use.  This stuff is not rocket science and there are plenty of ways to avoid storage if you must (though email and a well salted/hashed password is hardly a burden - this is a business, not a hobby) see e.g. Eero who use a phone.  There are ways, though they are generally less convenient for the user (this is about the user experience isn't it? :-)) than a personal email.

 

You're only obligated to activate via a Google or Facebook account so that the device is tied to some form of verified email address. 

So are you saying that I can switch over to my personal email now?  I partciluraly duo NOT want alerts going via Google.

 

After activation, you can create and use a local account for local access if you prefer. To make sure that remote access requires more than just Google credentials, you can also set an "extra password" for cloud-authenticated access.

I see that and have done so, but unless I'm misunderstanding, that seems to only give me login via the local network?

 

That password never leaves your device, and is known only to you (i.e. not even to Camect) ... so you can secure yourself from any compromise of your Google/Facebook account. (Even Google or Facebook could not use it for access if they wanted to if you set this password.) 

Thanks for the feedback.

Cheers 

[CamectArup]

To answer your question about using an alternative personal or business email address: 

You can enable almost any non-Google address for "sign in with Google"  here.   

If you do that for your personal or business address it doesn't cause your alert emails to go via Google in any way or give Google any ability to access your email account. 

All it means is that when you sign in to Camect with Google, Google tells us that they've verified you're the owner of the email address. When an alert email is sent from Camect, it will go straight to the email account you enabled this way, with no Google involvement en route. 

To get your alert emails going to an address you enable this way, you have two choices: 

    1. Add the newly-enabled email as a user in the users tab. Sign in to Camect with that email address, go to the "me" tab in home settings, and enable email alerts, OR 

    2. Reset the device (home settings > show advanced settings > reset) and reactivate it with your non-gmail email address. 

If you choice option (1), also remember to deactivate the email alerts to the gmail account from the "me" tab of the main owner account. 

You are correct in your observation that local accounts can only be used from the same network as your Camect device unless you want to use your own VPN to get you access. Our cloud-supported remote access requires a cloud identity to work (and the aforementioned "extra password" can be required in addition to ensure extra security against any compromise of the cloud identity).