Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu & Sri Sampradaya

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BVKS Sanga

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Mar 29, 2024, 1:35:34 PM3/29/24
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From: Narayana Srinivasa
Date: 29 March 2024 10:50:34
Subject: Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu & Sri Sampradaya
To: BVKS Sanga

Dear Guru Maharaja & other Vaishnavas
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. 

Please find a link below for an YouTube video published by Koyil. org, Sri Vaishnava portal run by a well known Sri Vaishnava Sri Sarathy Thothathri. He has many followers in India and abroad. 


In this Q&A session he has answered that the evidences given by Gaudiya Sampradaya for Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu being Krishna have not been accepted by any acharyas of any other Sampradaya. This raises a big question mark on Iskcon philosophy and preaching. 

Is there any proof that the quotes given from Sastras on Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu have been accepted by acharyas fro other sampradayas? If not how do we clear this doubt raised? 

Hare Krishna

Your humble servant
Narayana Srinivasa Dasa

BVKS Sanga

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Apr 3, 2024, 8:47:32 AM4/3/24
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From "Yasoda Jivan dasa"
Date 30-03-2024 12:14:51
Subject Re: Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu & Sri Sampradaya


Pranam Prabhuji

As we see Madhvas quoting about Madhvacarya from Vayu purana which is not quoted by any other sampradayas. From this it doesn't mean that those verses are unauthorized. Similarly, Sri Vaishnavas also quote from Narad puran to show that laksman has incarnated as Ramanujacarya. But again, those verses are also not quoted by any acaryas, so from this we cannot say that madhvacarya is not an incarnation of vayu and ramanujacarya is not an incarnation of laksmana.

 

Many devotees from other sampradayas have accepted Caitanya Mahaprabhu as supreme personality of godhead.

 

1)      the first reference is from Sri bhakta mala (72 Text) (also accepted in nimbarka sampradaya) which is written by Nabhaji maharaj from Ramananda sampraday in 1585 AD

image.png

Hindi: श्रीनित्यानन्दजी तथा श्रीकृष्णचैतन्यमहाप्रभुजीकी भक्तिका प्रकाश दसों दिशाओंमें फैला। आप दोनों महानुभावोंने गौड़देशमें फैले हुए पाखण्ड (कुप्रथाओं एवं मुसलमानोंके आतंक)-को मिटाकर वहाँके लोगोंको भगवद्भजनमें प्रवृत्त किया। आप दोनों करुणाके समुद्र , कृतज्ञ तथा अगणित अगतिक जीवोंको गति देनेवाले हुए। (अर्थात् दुष्टोंको न मारकर उनकी दुष्टताका नाशकर उन्हें भक्त बनाया।) आप दोनों सदा ही प्रेमरस- विवश बने रहते थे। बड़े-बड़े महापुरुषोंने आपके श्रीचरणकमलोंकी उपासना की। आपका नाम लेते ही प्राणी निष्पाप हो जाते हैं , तत्काल उनके समस्त पाप नष्ट हो जाते हैं। पूर्व देशकी भूमिमें श्रीबलराम और श्रीकृष्ण ही श्रीनित्यानन्दजी एवं श्रीकृष्णचैतन्य- इन दोनों महापुरुषोंके रूपमें प्रादुर्भूत हुए थे। इनके अवतारकी बात सर्वप्रसिद्ध है ॥ ७२ ॥

English : The light of devotion of Shri Nityanandaji and Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhuji spread in ten directions. Both of you gentlemen eradicated the hypocrisy (evil practices and terror of Muslims) spread in Gaud Desh and motivated the people there to worship Krishna. You both became oceans of compassion, grateful and moving countless immovable beings. (That is, not to kill the wicked, but to destroy their wickedness and make them devotees.) Both of you were always under love. Great men worshiped your lotus feet. As soon as your name is uttered, the creatures become sinless, immediately all their sins are destroyed. In the land of the past, Shri Balarama and Shri Krishna were born as two great men - Shri Nityanandaji and Shri Krishna Chaitanya. The story of his incarnation is well known.

 

(This one is from the Gita press edition)

furthermore, there are devotees from the Ramanand Sampradaya who have accepted Mahaprabhu’s divinity as well. Ramanand Sampraday is from the same lineage of Ramanuja Sampraday.

1) Shri Rajendra Das Ji Maharaj is the president (Mahant) of Shri Malook Peeth Ashram, and he accepts the authenticity of Sri Chaitanya Caritamrta, as evident from the following— https://youtu.be/-EtLkBLsMl8

 2) Sri Raghavacarya in the following video unquivocally declares the acceptance of Mahaprabhu’s divinity— https://www.instagram.com/reel/CVW3NG5I1jF/?utm_medium=copy_linkSri Raghavacarya is the head of Shri dham math, Ayodhya. He was honoured with gold medal for achieving 1st rank in Vedant examination conducted by Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi. Then he achieved Ph.D. degree (Vidyavaridhi) under the guidance of Prof. Rajdeva Mishra.

(Sri Raghavacarya is the head of Shri dham math, Ayodhya. He was honoured with gold medal for achieving 1st rank in Vedant examination conducted by Sampurnanand Sanskrit University, Varanasi. Then he achieved Ph.D. degree (Vidyavaridhi) under the guidance of Prof. Rajdeva Mishra.

Revered Shrimad jagadguru Shri Swamiji Raghavacharyaji Maharaj is the disciple of Honourable Shrimad jagadguru Shri Swamiji Vasudevacharyaji. From his childhood only he had inclination of gaining knowledge of Sanskrit grammar and Veda Shastra. Then he gained expertise knowledge of Vedas and Purvamimansa under the guidance of Shri Vindhyeshwariprasad. Swamiji learnt the appreciation of Shri Bhashyadi Vedant Scriptures by Dr. Shivaprasad Dwivedi. In the divine company of Shri Mahaswami Gopalacharyaji Swamiji perfected the art of Bhagavadradhan and Kalkshep discourses.)

2)      The second reference is from mira bai 

Mira Bai in her work called “Ab To Hari Nam Dhun Lo Lagi.” Between Verses 3-4, states:

syama kisor bhaye nava gora, caitanya jako nam! pitambar ko bhava dikhavai, kati kaupina base, gaur krsna ki dasi mira, jasa na krsna bane na bane! ab to hari nam dhun lo lagi!

“My Dark Beloved has now reappeared as the newly fresh Golden Lord Whose Blessed Name is ‘Caitanya’! Though clad Himself in skimpy rags, His pitambara (yellow divine attire) as well as His inner most divine love sentiments are revealed to me. Now Mirabai is the maid-servant of the Golden Krsna Caitanya, whether the glory of My Krsna is recognized by all or not!”

 

3)      The third one is from a Sri Vaishnav

Srinivasan too has accepted the divinity of Mahaprabhu in the following public lecture on Chaitanya Caritamrta, and to save your time, go to time stamp 25:06— https://youtu.be/71q56Sg8jAM

 

There are also many sastric referances 

1) krishna yamal ( 28.64-66)  
image.png
 “Merciful Lord Gauranga, who has a deep voice, will appear as the son of Sacidevi. He is eager to taste the nectar of His own names and thus engages in chanting them.”

matva tvan mayam atmanam pathan dvy-aksaram ucyate gata trapo madonmatta gaja vad vicarisyati

“He (Krsna) will consider Himself as You (Radha). In this mood He will loudly recite two syllables, krsna, and being shamelessly intoxicated He will wander like an elephant.”

bhuvam prapte tu govinde caitanyakhya bhavisyati amsena tatra yasyanti tatra tat purva parsada prthak prthan namadheyah prayah purusa-murtayah

“When Lord Govinda appears on earth, He will be known as Caitanya. At that time His previous associates will also appear on earth. For the most part, they will have male forms.”

 (pracya prakasan varanasi tantric text series no 6)

2) narada purana (1.5.47)

अहमेव द्विजश्रेष्ठ नित्यं प्रच्छन्नविग्रहः भगवद्भक्तरूपेण लोकान्रक्षामि सर्वदा

Lord Krishna Said: “Concealing my real identity, O vipra, I appear in kali-yuga in the grab of a devotee and always protect my devotees.”


 

your servant

yasoda jivana das 

BVKS Sanga

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Apr 3, 2024, 8:58:52 AM4/3/24
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From: Hiranya-garbha (das) BCS
Date: Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu & Sri Sampradaya

Dear Narayana Srinivasa Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. 

Please find attached some documents which I had compiled years ago as part of my research which has evidences from various scriptures confirming Lord Caitanya is svayam Krsna. Hopefully it will be of some use to you. 

I understand that almost all vaisnava sampradaya's accept the book titled Bhaktmala written by Sri Nabha Das Goswami. In there it is stated that both Lord Balarama and Lord Krsna appeared as Lord Nityananda and Lord Caitanya. The only exception maybe the Sri and Madhva sampradayas from South India because this book is written in Hindi which they may not understand. Apparently, this book was accepted by Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada and by Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakura. 






Bhaktamall Katha Part 6 - Talk on Lord Caitanya in the end. Not everything is correct, but he accepts Lord Caitanya as Krsna.

Raghavacarya from Sri Sampradaya



Devakinanda Thakur from Nimbarka sampradaya




"Sri Bhaktamala is a compilation of +400 short biographies of the Lord's Avataras, sages, and vaishnavas from the early times up to Lord Caitanya and following generations of devotees.
The last three chapters highlight the supremacy, glories and exalted position of the devotees of the Lord.
There are a number of books named Bhaktamāla, which are compilations of stories from the Bhāgavatam, other Purāṇas, and local traditions, about the Lord and his devotees. However, some of these Bhaktamālas are not accepted by Gaudiya Vaishnavas. 
The Bhaktamāla compiled in Hindi around the year 1666 by the Ramanandi vaiṣṇava Nabha Das Goswami and later commented on by Gaudiya vaisnava Priyadas (great grand disciple of Srila Gopal Bhatta Goswami) in 1766 was accepted and appreciated by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada. It was quoted by him in a lecture in Midnapur on 10 February 1925. It is also mentioned by Srila Thakur Bhaktivinode in his autobiography. Furthermore, the 1897 issue of Sajjana-toṣaṇī included a review of a Sanskrit translation of Bhaktamāla. Also, Nabha Das’ Bhaktamāla was included in a list of suggested reading material for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s Sampradāya-vaibhāvācārya test that was administered to devotees of the maṭha. Not much is known about Nabha Das Goswami. Priyadas writes in his commentary that Nabha was born in the line of Hanuman, presumably meaning a line of devotees of Lord Rama’s monkey devotee. He says that Nabha was blind and that due to extreme poverty his mother left him in the forest when he was five years old. He was found by two saints, Sri Kilhadev and Sri Agradev, who sprinkled water on the boy’s eyes and gave him sight. After that, Sri Agradev gave him initiation into a rāma-mantra and instructed him to stay at Galta ashram in the foothills near Jaipur. According to the local tradition in Galta, it was there that Nabha compiled his Bhaktamāla. From the prayers given in the  the beginning his commentary, it is confirmed that Priyadas belonged to the Śrī Mādhva Gauḍiya sampradāya. He describes his spiritual preceptors as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Gopal Bhatta Goswami, Sri Srinivasacharya, and Sri Manohar Das.
The spiritual master of Sri Nabha, who was known as Srimad Agradevacarya, had ordered Nabha (Sri Narayana Dasa), around 1666, to compile Sri Bhaktamala. Compiled one hundred years thereafter, in 1766, Sri Priyadasa’s commentary in poetry form is as important as the original book, Bhaktamala.
There was a conflict due to disagreements between the different sampradayas at the time Bhaktamala was compiled. Everyone thought their worshipable Deity, their literatures, their acaryas, and their followers to be the best and therefore all the others inferior. For this reason, the practice of real religion had suffered, and is still suffering.
In such a time of crisis, Srimad Agvadevacarya instructed Sri Nabha about the unalloyed conclusion that by worshiping the devotees of the Supreme Lord and by following the orders of a bonafide spiritual master, one’s goal of life is easily achieved."

Your servant,
Hiranya-garbha Das


Caitanya-candra_13032022_FINAL.pdf
Gaurangachandrodaya_Vayu Purana_v3.pdf

BVKS Sanga

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Apr 7, 2024, 11:47:26 AM4/7/24
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Re: Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu & Sri Sampradaya
From: Damodar Das
Date7 Apr, 08:01



Respected Guru Maharaja and Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
Sri Sri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah.

IMHO, quoting from Bhaktamal, Ramanandis, MIrabai, and other such persons in deciding who is an incarnation cannot serve as Pramana; it may be taken as a supporting evidence, at the most. When you are discussing with Srivaisnavas and Madhvas (or with any other sampradaya for that matter), we have to stick to the right methodology of pramanas that has been followed in all bona fide sampradayas from time immemorial, i.e. it the method of quoting from sastras. Specifically when the questions are raised on the topics of sambandha, abhideya, or prayojana, one must stick to these all pervading evidence—srutis, smrtis, puranas, pancaratras—and these are finite books defined and declared as eternally authoritative in all times places, and circumstances. 

Therefore, Srila Prabhupada says (BG 13.5, ppt.),
------
"Krsna is explaining this most controversial point regarding the duality and nonduality of the soul and the Supersoul by referring to a scripture, the Vedänta, which is accepted as authority." 
----
And CC Madhya 20.352 ppt.,
------
One should accept a thing as genuine by studying the words of saintly people, the spiritual master and the sastra. The actual center is the sastra, the revealed scripture. If a spiritual master does not speak according to the revealed scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the çästra, he is not a saintly person. The sastra is the center for all. Unfortunately, at the present moment, people do not refer to the sastras; therefore they accept rascals as incarnations, and consequently they have made incarnations into a very cheap thing.
-----

Therefore, we see that in establishing Lord Caitanya as Supreme Personality of Godhead, our acaryas beginning from Rupa Gosvami till date have based their arguments strictly on sastras and the sastric methodology of interpretations in case things are not clear. They did not quote Mirabai and others in this regard. So we should also follow the same methodology understanding it to be sufficient. That will be possible if we deeply understand how our acaryas establish this (which may need some deep grip over some sastric techniques). Sad-sandarbhas, Caitanya Caritamrta, Krama-sandarbha, etc. could also be seen.

The first logic that Yasoda Jivan provided is sufficient to go forward with further conversation with such people. Here is pasted YJD's text:
-----

As we see Madhvas quoting about Madhvacarya from Vayu purana which is not quoted by any other sampradayas. From this it doesn't mean that those verses are unauthorized. Similarly, Sri Vaishnavas also quote from Narad puran to show that laksman has incarnated as Ramanujacarya. But again, those verses are also not quoted by any acaryas, so from this we cannot say that madhvacarya is not an incarnation of vayu and ramanujacarya is not an incarnation of laksmana.
-----
This is a sound logic. Both Sris and Madhvas (and any other bona fide sampradaya for that matter) are bound to accept all sastric statments and not just statements that their acaryas have commented upon lest they will pass through the problem of half-hen logic. It is not possible for any acarya to comment on every sentence of bona fide sastra; does that mean those statements of sastras become doubtful? For instance, Madhvacarya has not commented on most of the slokas of Mahabharata; then why Madhvas take it as their main scripture and go on giving pravacanas on it? It is because they accept full Mahabharata and not just the texts commented by Madhvacarya. 

If only the parts of a sastra commented by our acarya are to be accepted as pramana, then how could there be any discussion on any matter between sampradayas? How can there be a sastrartha? In sastrartha, it is not just that acarya has not commented but that acarya has commented opposite to another acarya on the same statement. So if any sampradaya just sticks to their point saying "that our acarya commented like this so that is sufficient for us," then that sampradaya is considered defeated. We can remember the Lord Caitanya's lila of defeating the Mayavadis—the statement of Prakasananda Sarasvati that marked his defeat was "acarya kalpita artha iha saba jani / sampradaya anurodhi tabhu taha mani," "we know that all this word jugglery springs from the imagination of Sankaracarya, and yet because we belong to his sect, we accept it although it does not satisfy us." A similar statement was found when Lord Caitanya defeats the Tattvavadis of Udupi. 

Therefore, no bona fide scholar among Madhvas or Srivaisnavas is expected to make such comments. In short, that would actually show that they are defeated.

You may ask them pointed questions to expose them. For instance,
Why do you think that only the slokas of sastras that are commented upon by acaryas of your sampradaya are pramana?
Is this philosophy of yours supported or taught by any of your acaryas?
If so, then based on what sastras does he establish this philosophy?
And, if so then why you expect us (persons from another sampradaya) to follow that philosophy?
And, if so then how could there be any sastrartha between sampradayas?

Thank you,
Your servant,
damodara das
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