re: AB43 , Can Mountain View set lower speed limits in its streets?

[Serge Bonte]

AB43 went into effect in January and allows cities to lower speed limits even when speed tables show otherwise (measuring average effective speeds to set the speed limit).

San Francisco has started that process on some streets (lowering speed from 25mph to 20mph).

Reading the bill:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB43

It sounds like  Mountain View could follow San Francisco's path? If so, I'd like to push Mountain View to do so asap.

Bill doesn't seem to allow a City to lower speeds across a whole City, so might need to focus first on high risk/high speed corridors (El Monte, Shoreline....) and streets with schools?

 

Serge

PS: Because it's a state Highway, not sure if AB43 changes anything on El Camino Real.

[James Kuszmaul]

A presentation on AB-43 is planned for BPAC. It may be on the agenda for this month's BPAC meeting per the last Tentative Agenda List, but I haven't yet seen a final agenda, so cannot confirm that.

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[Kevin Wang]

I had a crazy idea; do a research project using "pace cars" to restrict cars in common speeding areas, whether it be local streets or some of the narrow but overcrowded freeways.

Then 1- see if accidents are reduced, and 2- see if people get used to driving slower and keep doing so (seems unlikely).

self-driving vehicles seem like an easy way to do this, though special software would be needed in order to do things like 1- detect double parking or busses blocking the lane, 2- speed up the car in the slow lane to go around the double parked car by pulling in front of its "friend" in the other lanes, but not leave enough space that someone will try and squeeze through. it's tricky trying to do this safely. At least computers can calculate distance/time/velocity easily.

It might help to implement "25 mph" light timing. Ashland, OR does this and has signs reading something like "lights timed to 25mph". i.e. if you travel 25 mph, you can get all greens (congestion permitting), but if you go faster, you will end up hitting a red.

For example, Santa Clara st in downtown sj. it's got such narrow lanes and way too much traffic.

Does anyone know how effective the bus-only lanes east of 101 have been wrt moving people per hour? (i.e. give transit priority, and of course it moves people faster)

   - Kevin

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[Judy Hay]

I think it would be quite an accomplishment just to get cars to drive at the existing posted speed limits!

Having lived in Switzerland for a few years and seen the effects of speed cameras (the ones that automatically mail a ticket to the owner of every speeding car), I really wish we had those here. Unbiased, uniform policing of speed would help a lot. Yes, locals do get to know where the cameras are but the traffic still slows down. I suppose there's a reason we don't have them, perhaps they are seen as an invasion of privacy?

Judy

[Serge Bonte]

I agree that 100% compliance won't happen until there is automated enforcement. But there is also a sizable amount of people who don't need enforcement to follow lowered posted speed limits (for starter, cyclists like myself when they get behind the wheel); and ,the following chart shows it's worth it even without full compliance:

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[James Kuszmaul]

With regards to speed cameras, speed cameras are currently forbidden by state law. AB 2336 would've changed this, but was mothballed for unclear reasons. The main objections I've heard are (a) people who want to speed without consequences; and (b) some objections from groups like the EFF about privacy concerns from large-scale data collection (I've seen no strong basis for these concerns, given that (1) the other option is the status quo of human enforcement, which creates far greater issues; (2) that the bill sets strong guidelines on how data from speed cameras may be used; and (c) red light cameras are already legal).

Also, while speed limit signs and reducing posted speed limits alone is not sufficient, they do actually help--Seattle found that just reducing posted speed limits by 5 mph and increasing the number of posted signs, they saw reductions of median speed of ~2.5 mph and ~20% reductions in crashes on treated streets (https://www.seattle.gov/Documents/Departments/SDOT/VisionZero/SpeedLimit_CaseStudies_Report.pdf).

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James Kuszmaul

[Bruce England]

Related note: While biking, I regularly see cars sail through one green light after another (perhaps due to signal timing having been set up) while I get stuck with bunches of red lights. No signal timing for bike speeds. No solution ideas here, so just saying.

Bruce

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[Bruce England]

I like the pacer cars idea; interesting. On more signs: Whew, we have so many signs out there already. At some point, they just become blah, blah, blah.

Cheers,
Bruce 

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 7:33 PM Kevin Wang <k...@leftsock.com> wrote:

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[Eric Armstrong]

Raised "table bumps" are the best way to go, imho.

1. They force slower vehicle speeds, but are neglibible for bikes.

2. Traffic that wants to go fast then tends to avoid those streets,
    removing the vehicles most likely to give in to temptation.

3. Putting them in at crosswalks, ala the Netherlands, is nothing
    short of brilliant. (It automatically signals priority, too. If the
    crosswalk isn't raised, cars have the priority.)

Breathe. Activate. Meditate. Connect.

Eric Armstrong MeditateBetter.com, Bench Yoga book Meditation & Internal Energy (articles at Medium.com) Instagram: MeditateBetter, Facebook: BetterMeditation

Yoga Meditation Bench for meditative yoga & "Instant Alignment" 

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[Serge Bonte]

AFAIK speed bumps are only allowed on roads with an already low posted speed limit (e.g., we can't get them on El Monte -we asked- because speed limit is 35mph)  catch 22 number 1

The bumps can also be installed through Mountain View's  Neighborhood Traffic Management Program (NTMP) -neighbors on one street can petition the city- but here's catch 22 number 2:

You can only get traffic calming after a speed table study against the currently posted limit (the infamous 85th percentile rule) shows you can lower the effective speed.  In practice it's nearly impossible to clear that bar (my neighborhood tried many years ago). There is also limited funding in Mountain View for such programs.

Interestingly AB43 could help: change the posted speed limit first -with immediate benefits as the Seattle study showed-.... and then you can clear the bar for NTMP and get speed bumps on corridors like El Monte :)

Serge

[Eric Armstrong]

Thanks, Serge. 
My education continues!

Breathe. Activate. Meditate. Connect.

Eric Armstrong MeditateBetter.com, Bench Yoga book Meditation & Internal Energy (articles at Medium.com) Instagram: MeditateBetter, Facebook: BetterMeditation

Yoga Meditation Bench for meditative yoga & "Instant Alignment" 

[isaac stone]

The book `Copenheganize`  it talks about how the city not only timed lights for cyclists, but also added indicators between lights. If the distance between lights was far, then cyclists would speed up or slow down and end up having to wait. So the city added small lights by the cycle track - if they were green when you passed them then you were on track to get a green at the next signalized intersection.

A great example of really paying attention and designing for bikes first.

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[Bruce England]

A very cool idea, Isaac!

Thanks!
Bruce 

[April Webster]

I'm with Isaac on thoughtful design ftw. Much more impactful.

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[Eric Armstrong]

Thoughts:

1. I like the idea of pace lights. They sure would be handy.

2. As a recall, one of the things that make a city "bike friendly" (as indicated by the signs
    you see when entering Mountain View on Sylvan Ave, and no doubt other places) is
    that the signals are timed for bikes. (I think the timing is any multiple of 12 mph.)

3. Unfortunately, I managed to delete the thread where Serge responded that a slow
    speed limit was necessary before a speed bump could be installed. 
    Question: Was that speed limit 20 mph or 25? If 25, I'll see about getting it changed
    on Sylvan. But with a park there, with children and old folks, a 30 mph limit sees
    speeds of 40 and at times, 45. Too much!)

4. In that same thread, Serge mentioned a neighbor's difficulty meeting the "85% threshold".
    But I think the result could have a lot to do with how measurements are made:

a. In any "procession", the lead car dictates the speed. Today I saw 5 cars stacked
    up behind a legal-speed driver on Sylvan, producing a total of 6 cars moving at
    the posted speed, 5 of whom had no choice in the matter.

b. Precisely quantifying the notion of a "procession" may be difficult. But if it can
    be achieved, only the speed of the first car counts.

c. Some processions are easy to see, as an impatient driver tailgates the one
    in front. But considerate drivers may hang back a reasonable distance, so
    their speed may well be influenced by the one in front. (Suggesting that a 
    gap need to be a minimum of several seconds to qualify as the end of the
    procession.)

d. Depending on where the measurement is taken, a car can be barreling down
    the road going a lot faster than the posted speed, only to slow when it reaches
    the procession, so it's going relatively slowly when the measurement is taken.

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[Serge Bonte]

San Jose just adopted reduced posted speed limits on some of  their streets.

This article https://sanjosespotlight.com/new-san-jose-speed-limits-applauded-but-still-fall-short/ explains the current limitations of AB2336. Right now only a limited number of streets qualify. Eventually, more streets will qualify but not until Caltrans writes a set of regulations (it has until June 2024 to do so :( ).