New bike parts questions

[Jon Foraday]

Folks,

I have a few questions on base parts when ordering a new bike. While I know I can pretty much spec anything I want, my understanding is that the cost is pretty much that of adding the MSRP of the choice I could make. I might as well just get the "standard" items, and budget for a future upgrade. In some cases (eg. Rims, Tires) there is a good option for a reasonable option price, but for many that is not the case.

That being said, I'd like opinions from you as owners, as to some of the other standard parts:

Disc Brake calipers. The standard calipers are "Zoom" calipers. If I read correctly, from Sensah. Some reviews I have read on some other brands of bikes that use them are less than flattering. Have any of you purchased a Friday with these?  What are your thoughts.

Lite Pro cranksets. Looking these up on EBay and Amazon suggests there are quite low cost. But what about quality?  Same - Any experiences here?

Wheelmaster rear (and whatever is used in front) hubs - Same. Given that these are no-name brands, are they OK?

Bars - I'm thinking NWT, but with drop bars. Likely to be the pocket rocket base bars - Kaloy Anatomic. Kaloy is a mainstream company, but drop and reach matter to me. I want a shallow drop. Any of you have them, and assuming so, would you call them shallow or deep drop?

I know I could ask Bike Friday, but I'd like to get actual end user experiences if possible.

[Eric Daume]

I've been running LitePro cranks on my Crusoe for a few years now, and I only have one complaint: they advertise the ring as "narrow/wide" (for chain retention), but it's not. It can derail when I hop a curb of fold the bike (always derails here). Otherwise, the quality of the crank itself has been fine.

I've used Wheelmaster wheels for my bike wheeled bikes without any issues.

I'm not a big fan of cheap mechanical disc brakes. They tend to have a very wooden feeling. Cheap Shimano mechanicals work fine for me, or BB7s.

Eric

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[robert clark]

BB7 calipers with  discs came on my Llama   As a slow foul weather commuter 

 they lacked modulation , front was all or nothing - very touchy

160 disc being quite large in proportion ,  with 20" wheel  .. 

So I swapped to a TRP HyRd, a cable actuated hydraulic which  feels better  

A Chainminder  fits between the seat tube & almost  touches the chainring that keeps the chain on mine...

+ the trouser guard on the outside..

[robert clark]

My dividing line in cranks is cold forged vs Cast  IDK Lite Pro, 

but I had a Tikit with cast cranks have the pedal seemingly fall off 

when the thread spontaneously deteriorated...

[Jon Foraday]

Thanks folks. 

Sounds like the hubs are fine, and the cranks are if forged. One seller says forged, the others (including manufacturer site) say nothing, so probably OK, but not sure.

The brakes on the other hand... So If I do this, I need to budget about $100 for new brakes.

[Dirk Bolle]

I've got bb7 road's on a custom air (withS ram force brifters.) They work well. Make sure you have good handles. The cheap off brands (which BF will likely supply with the off brand discs) will feel and behave differently than avid or shimano. The avid Speed Dial 7 are a perfect match. The shimano sora and tiagra levers are adjustable via a small cam inside for either caplipers or v/Disc brakes. make sure they are properly set - they work with both, but you MUST set them correctly - lots of mechanics aren't aware, including BF. I bought a basically mint unused PRP with them on H-Bars and they were not set for calipers. they were still in "V" mode. resetting and adjusting the brakes made a world of difference.

Sent from an IOS Device,  iMac, a MacBook Pro, MacBook Air,  Mac Pro, or occasionally (God forbid) a Windows PC. But never an Android device.

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[Jon Foraday]

So I wonder if sticking with V brakes might be better. I have no experience with disk brakes, but my understanding is that good V brakes are better than fair to poor disc brakes. If I would end up dropping $100 to $200 to up grade to good disc brake calipers, on top of the $100 extra that Bike Friday asks for Disk Brake bikes, is it worth it? Seeing that decent V brakes can lock up the wheels, are discs enough better to justify $300 more than V brakes?

[Joseph Bernard]

I'll probably be in the minority here but after using the gamut of discs from low-end cable to high-end cable (Paul) and hydraulic, I'll take just about any v-brake over the cheaper discs. They work, they're easy to set up and lighter. The only drawback I see between cheap discs and v-brakes is resale, if/when the time comes to sell your Bike Friday the market may have decided v-brakes are antique technology. 

Joe Bernard 

[Ken Preston]

I have a 2007 Crusoe with V brakes and wish I had discs. I use it for long tours and the problem I have is that the rear brake gets a lot of road grime because of its location. I’m seriously thinking about converting the rear brake to a disc. 

Ken

On Dec 31, 2022, at 10:49 PM, Jon Foraday <jon4...@gmail.com> wrote:

So I wonder if sticking with V brakes might be better. I have no experience with disk brakes, but my understanding is that good V brakes are better than fair to poor disc brakes. If I would end up dropping $100 to $200 to up grade to good disc brake calipers, on top of the $100 extra that Bike Friday asks for Disk Brake bikes, is it worth it? Seeing that decent V brakes can lock up the wheels, are discs enough better to justify $300 more than V brakes?

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[Larry Newman]

Perhaps from a retro-grouch perspective, but I increasingly ride in groups where many now have disc brakes. After recent rains, we stopped 3 times on a 40-mile ride to fix flats. Removing a wheel with a disc is significantly harder, and re-inserting the wheel even more difficult. If I were more competitive, I would be more interested in converting to disc brakes. So far, i’m sticking with my easy-to-maintain rim brakes. I do envy those with disc brakes on long, rough descents, where my hands get tired. Another reason to convert is when you lose grip strength, something I hear from fellow, older riders. 

No doubt discs offer better braking action vs. easier to own/maintain rim brakes. Still riding my 1994 PR with triple crank and rim brakes.

-- 

Larry, Bozeman, MT and Cayucos, CA

AF, PR, NWT, and TT (formerly)

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[robert clark]

I've fitted some brake levers, in the LBS ... they simply had 2  places for the cable head,

 nearer of further from the pivot bolt.  

Avid lever's speed dial knob makes that an adjustment... 

the screw moving the cable head nearer or further from the pivot bolt....

The way the cable  is attached to the Hy Rd  caliper actuating arm,

 also can fine tune things ...  a little slack, or none.. ..  

Nicest feature for a hydraulic brake is a thumbscrew you can use to lock the pads apart

 so when the wheel with the disc is removed , the auto pad wear feature is kept from filling in the gap.

very practical   Usually you have a piece to carry along to fill in between the pads .. 

'a Keeper'- that came with the bike in the shipping box, but few know to ask for it when taking the new bike home.

[mikeayling969]

Depends on your use of the brakes. On

 long descents if you brake hard before a corner then let the bike run until the next corner, rinse and repeat then V brakes will be fine but if you hold the brakes continuously you may overheat the rims potentially causing your tube to explode. Also a lot of braking does wear out rims. IMNSHO rim brakes are a lot prettier than discs!

Sent from Samsung tablet.

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[Geof Gee]

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 11:49 PM Jon Foraday <jon4...@gmail.com> wrote:

So I wonder if sticking with V brakes might be better. I have no experience with disk brakes, but my understanding is that good V brakes are better than fair to poor disc brakes. If I would end up dropping $100 to $200 to up grade to good disc brake calipers, on top of the $100 extra that Bike Friday asks for Disk Brake bikes, is it worth it? Seeing that decent V brakes can lock up the wheels, are discs enough better to justify $300 more than V brakes?

FWIW ... unless you are an extraordinary user such as a heavy tandem or cargo or riding very aggressively ... I find it hard to believe that switching will make a significant difference. If you need more power, consider swapping the v-brake pads and do a little practicing minimizing stopping distance. Technique matters a lot. Regardless of the brake type. My experience is that a hydraulic system has very good control and you can stay really close to the point that the rear wheel gets light. But I can lift the rear wheel with any type of brake. Disk brake wipe the pads super quick in the wet meaning that you get brake pressure a little bike faster than with some rim brake.  

If it's raining and you're carrying a touring load, do you slow down for the conditions? Do you occasionally wipe the water off the rim before approaching intersections or turns? These are things folks have been doing for decades and getting good performance. 

I can think of reasons to swap ... you want multiple wheel sizes, you're used to disk brakes, and so on. But a quick read of the thread -- could have missed something -- doesn't suggest you're in that category.  

Good luck

-G

Arlington, VA

--

"Sometimes I forget things.  Who I am.  Where I am.  Unimportant things. But I'm not insane. "

[Eric Daume]

I was about to jump in and second Joe's opinion (rim brakes work fine), but today's drizzly ride on my V-braked Crusoe got me thinking about discs as I listened to the pads scrape away at the rims. I think the more you ride in rain or snow, the more you would appreciate discs.

Eric

[Joseph Bernard]

Yes, conditions definitely matter, I live in California where it's dry most of the time but it's been raining the last couple weeks..I don't ride in that! The sun is out today and I'm headed out with v-brakes on wet roads but no rain (or snow) splashing on my rims. If this is a real issue, get the cheap discs! 

[robert clark]

With a post spread of about 8cm..  best brakes to put on V brake posts is Magura's hydraulics, functionally.

They've Been trouble free for 14 years...  

- but I must admit for frequent knocking down & folding for travel, a cable brake simplifies that, a bit.. 

[Michael Tarr]

I have ridden BB7's on my foul weather commuter bike for years. They work very well if set up right (say 90% of of the performance of my ultegra hydraulic disc brakes). But there is an art to setting them up (e.g., pad spacing around the rotor is asymmetrical, etc.). Having set up at least three bikes with BB7's they can be excellent, but it requires good compassionless housing and correct pad spacing. Moreover, while disc brakes are great in wet weather vs. V brakes, they are definitely more of a pain to maintain. And the pads can be trashed quickly if road grit gets on the rotors (once went through a set of F and R pads in a single ride...). Plus people tend to get oil, grease, sunscreen, etc on the rotors which dramatically reduces their effectiveness (use isopropyl alcohol to clean if in doubt). So unless you ride in a good bit of wet weather, discs probably aren't worth the hassle/cost. V brakes should be fine (just not so much if you get wet rims - you need to be careful to clear them before you need to really stop). If you do decide to get disc brakes, I would go for the BB7s (BB5s are terrible) or the HY/RD's. If you go with the BB7s you should probably watch the various YouTube videos that provide guidance on how to set up and maintain. I haven't had many problems over the years. But also, while traveling with the bike, best to bring 1-2 spare sets of pads - you would be surprised how many bike stores don't carry them (and again, one messy day on the wrong surface can eat away your entire pad). Good luck!

[Jon Foraday]

Thanks folks.

Certainly an interesting set of comments and opinions. what I'm hearing is consistent with what I've read elsewhere:

Discs are better in the wet, and on long descents, but cheap ones are probably worse than V brakes, and discs are more finicky, and require more maintenance.

So to add - On wet rides, particularly when going down hill, I do periodically touch the brakes to wipe the rims, and on long descents I do "pump" the brakes to prevent overheating (and yes, have been doing both for 5+ decades ;-),

So if those are the main concerns with V brakes, and maintenance is harder, maybe sticking with V bakes for now makes more sense.

Where I live (Colorado Front Range) is doesn't rain a lot, and I dislike riding in the rain enough to avoid it, so wet issues are reduced.
I can though, see that when buying a new bike going with (good) discs makes sense with respect to obsolescence.

Jon

On Thursday, December 29, 2022 at 8:42:00 PM UTC-7 ro3ert...@gmail.com wrote: