Capreo or XDR?

[John Thurston]

Let's say I want a cassette that doesn't stop at 11, and I'm willing to
build a new wheel to get it.

I know that Shimano no longer produces any Capreo, but other companies
still make things which use the same design. XDR is the "new" stuff that
goes past 11, and is available from several companies. It looks like I
can get 10-speed cassettes for both.

Is there a reason to prefer one system over the other?

Does the calculus change if we discuss 130mm or 135mm hubs?


--
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska

[Paul Webb]

If I understand it correctly, SRAM has XD and XDR and has licences both to other manufacturers.  I think the difference is mainly about width.  XD targets MTB and XDR road.  XD cassettes appear to be made for the fashionable 1x gear set ups, which means wide ranges going up to very large sprockets (42+).  That doesn't seem very useful in combination with 20" wheels.  XDR probably makes more sense for BF's.  

I have heard reports that XD cassettes can be hard to remove (at the threaded part) if not well greased.  I would expect the same to apply to XDR.

[Paul Webb]

https://www.sram.com/en/service/articles/sram-xd-and-xdr-driver-body-explained

[John Thurston]

On 3/28/2022 8:02 PM, John Thurston wrote:
> Let's say I want a cassette that doesn't stop at 11, and I'm willing to
> build a new wheel to get it.
>
> I know that Shimano no longer produces any Capreo, but other companies
> still make things which use the same design. XDR is the "new" stuff that
> goes past 11, and is available from several companies. It looks like I
> can get 10-speed cassettes for both.
>
> Is there a reason to prefer one system over the other?

After reading Paul's reply, and rereading my question, I can see I have
not asked my question correctly. Le'me try to elaborate.

Shimano no longer makes Capreo components. Some other companies make
things which are Capreo-compatible. SRAM, and other companies, make
XD/XDR components. Either of these two systems (Capreo and XD) will let
me get 10-speed cassettes which go smaller than 11t.

Is there a reason to prefer Capreo or XD/XDR?

[Eric Daume]

Seems like XD/XDR has a much more secure future than anything that's Capreo based.  For future cassette sourcing, I would go XD/XDR.

Eric

--
another great conversation from the Bike Friday Yak!
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bike Friday Yak!" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to yak+uns...@bikefriday.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/bikefriday.com/d/msgid/yak/ccde93df-ecaa-0f1c-b7e4-dbf925d95997%40thurstons.us.

[Geof Gee]

Is there a reason to prefer Capreo or XD/XDR?

> Does the calculus change if we discuss 130mm or 135mm hubs?
>
>

Capreo gives you a smaller cog. It looks like Chosen is still making Capreo hubs and they're available.  You use the disk version if you want 135 spacing. It's unclear how easy it is to find cassettes; but EBay seems to list retailers of 9-32 and 9-28 10-speed cassettes.  

I know very little in regards to the SRAM system.  

-G  

--

"Sometimes I forget things.  Who I am.  Where I am.  Unimportant things. But I'm not insane. "

[Walter Lapchynski]

AFAIK those cassettes are from SunRace. They made a matching hub, both now discontinued, I think. They are similar to but not compatible with Capreo.

Capreo is dead. XDR has some hope of lasting, especially with multiple manufacturers making compatible hubs and the age of 1x drivetrains inspiring cassettes increasing in range in both directions.

--

another great conversation from the Bike Friday Yak!
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bike Friday Yak!" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to yak+uns...@bikefriday.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/bikefriday.com/d/msgid/yak/CACEjqhRTqfc88%3DreGOj2811UaLCRdTV%2BdeUrQJdQTVpQ8rgaLw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Wavrin]

Sunrace still lists a CSS90 9NS 9-28T for small wheel bikes on their web site. It looks to have a lock ring like the Capreo. Whether or not it is threaded the same I don't know. I also don't know who carries it (or would get it for you if it really is available).

I'm just a wee bit ticked Shimano dropped the Capreo and my wheel will be junk when the bottom 3 cogs are fully worn out. 

I'm also skeptical of SRAM doing the same with the XDR. But as Walter said many hub companies (over 150) are paying royalties to make that design.

Bob

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/bikefriday.com/d/msgid/yak/CAOVRG26RTwBLkiU3h%3DO6RSyyJmxVx5bKABF1_mhjPogjo6qA%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[John Thurston]

On 3/29/2022 5:44 PM, Walter Lapchynski wrote:
> Capreo is dead. XDR has some hope of lasting, especially with multiple
> manufacturers making compatible hubs and the age of 1x drivetrains
> inspiring cassettes increasing in range in both directions.

It will cost me* more than $900 to buy the parts to build a pair of
wheels with an XDR rear. It will cost me less than $700 to buy a pair of
wheels with a "Capreo Compatible" rear. I like building wheels, but a
$200 premium for the privilege is hard to overlook.

I'm torn. I think I'd prefer the XDR solution, but the bike in question
will be a low-mileage steed. Will the "Capreo" solution last long enough
that I won't care if I manage to wear them out? I know that no one here
can answer that. I'll continue to wrestle.

* those prices include a suitable cassette, and shipping to Alaska

[Bill Miller]

Hi all, are you referring to Shimano XT and XTR, not XD or XDR? 

It's a bit confusing..

--
another great conversation from the Bike Friday Yak!
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bike Friday Yak!" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to yak+uns...@bikefriday.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/bikefriday.com/d/msgid/yak/a7f79fd2-908e-7867-2060-cc2a55a9e60b%40thurstons.us.

[Paul Webb]

Hi John,

A thought for your consideration: The issue with Capreo seems to be availability of cassettes - I was under the impression that Capreo cogs larger than the first three are the same as Hyperglide cogs.  If so, and if you wear out the middle cogs before the three small ones (as I tend to), you may be able to mix in cogs from a standard HyperGlide cassette to extend the cassette life.

[Paul Webb]

On the cost - I have XD on one of my MTB and was horrified to see the best available price for an XD 11sp cassette was $200 Australian.  I have heard that they are quite durable, though.  (I haven't looked at XDR).

On Wednesday, 30 March 2022 at 14:01:29 UTC+11 John Thurston wrote:

[Paul Webb]

Abbreviations are great aren't they?

John is definitely referring to XD and XDR.  These are two types of freehub and cassette developed by SRAM.  Nothing to do with Shimano's XT and XTR.

SRAM developed XD to allow wider-ranging cassettes with a 10T small cog to suit 1x (single chainring) MTB setups.  They subsequently developed XDR for road applications as the fashion for single chainrings spread to road and "gravel' bikes.

[robert clark]

#1 Capreo is an ex parrot, it's been nailed to its perch, it's long ago dead.

[robert clark]

& the lack of ground clearance  for that bottom pulley to clear the big 1 by cassette cog with a 20" wheel  & wrap up enough chain,  for a 32 t difference (10-42)remains a problem.

a SA Hybrid hub with a 12-32 cassette (rough math) gives a 9t high & a 42.5t low . 

with a 4/3 high & a 3/4 low in the IGH part

& you can perhaps get a medium cage RD to work having only 1 chainring.

[John Thurston]

On 3/30/2022 4:50 PM, robert clark wrote:
> a SA Hybrid hub with a 12-32 cassette (rough math) gives a 9t high & a
> 42.5t low .
> with a 4/3 high & a 3/4 low in the IGH part
>

If one has a Sturmey Archer hybrid hub, one doesn't need to stop at 12,
it will go all the way to 11t. I have such hubs and have used them for
decades. I love 'em. They're great. But I'm not asking about those. I'm
specifically asking about the pros and cons when comparing
Capreo-compatible with XD/XDR hubs.

> & you can perhaps get a medium cage RD to work having only 1
> chainring.

You don't even need a medium-cage. My short-cage Shimano is _rated_ to
handle a 33t difference. So that would cover an 11-44t cassette, which
isn't really possible while not digging trenches with the derailleur. In
my experience, 40t is the largest cog I'm comfortable using with a
derailleur on my 406mm-wheeled bike.

While most XD/XDR cassettes have huge cogs for super-low gear, 3t makes
a 9-32t cassette which will work. They are _not_ inexpensive, but they
are available.
https://us.3t.bike/en/products/drivetrain/cassette-579.html

[Carl Hemmings]

Techo Weenie alert New project: Instead of using a Shimano Capreo 9 speed hub, I’m going to make a new rear wheel using the SunRace 10 Speed Hub, and a Goldace 10 speed cassette $79:

9-10-11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32

sprockets, it’s better/stronger with sealed bearings than the old Capreo hub. 

Then I’m going to see if I can retro fit the larger group of sprockets from a shimano 11-23t ten speed cassette, because I won’t need a 32t low gear. 

The sun race hub is made for Mtb, 135mm spacing, but I managed to machine 5mm of the axle to make it fit the bikefriday 130mm road spacing. 

[John Thurston]

On 3/30/2022 10:34 PM, Carl Hemmings wrote:
>
>
> [image: C7120C95-2BEF-4934-8D39-500E14557613.jpeg]Techo Weenie alert New
> project: Instead of using a Shimano Capreo 9 speed hub, I’m going to make a
> new rear wheel using the SunRace 10 Speed Hub, and a Goldace 10 speed
> cassette $79:

Where did you source the hub and cassette?
I can't find anyone who is actually _selling_ those SunRace products.

[robert clark]

Cassette + 'AW3' =  https://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/cs-rf3-silver