[Peter Stock]

threaded headset question

a quick question about threaded headsets on BFs.

i am rebuilding a BF with threaded steerer that was repainted.
I have mislaid the original 1 1/8th headset so I am out looking for another.

on a BF (IIRC) the locknut has to thread down far enough that ther is a section of the threaded steerer exposed, to take the stem riser.

is it normal for a threaded headset locknut to be able to be just screwed down and down and down like that?

I seem to remember my threaded headsets on traditional bikes "topping out" at the top of the steerer tube.

If so, how do I make a locknut work on a BF setup

or am I misremembering? (I don't have a threaded fork and headset at hand right now to experiment with )

Peter Stock

Toronto, Canada

[Walter Lapchynski]

On traditional bikes, there often was a lip on the locknut that would bottom out at the top of the steerer. We occasionally got headsets with that lip, but we would machine it out since the locknut needed to thread down past the top of the steerer. So if you get a new one and it has the lip, you'll have to machine that out.

I'd check and double check you have a 1⅛" headset. Nearly all of the bikes we made with threaded headsets were 1¼". There are exceptions, but they were far less common. The problem: no one makes 1¼" headsets and they haven't been available for a long time. Might want to get headtube reducers and go to 1⅛" if that's the case.

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[John Thurston]

If the top-cap you want to use has an inner 'lip', just remove it. Others here have said 'machine it out', but that's just a fancy way of saying 'remove it'. Precision removal is not necessary as long as you don't damage the threads in the body of the nut.

I'd do the work with a grinding wheel in a Dremel tool. A half-round file would do the trick. Even a small hard rock and persistence will get you there. You just need to make the lip go away without damaging the threads. Do what ever it takes, and it'll be fine.

Regarding the 9/8 and 10/8 headsets. We currently have one of each in the stable - 9/8 threaded on a NWT, 10/8 threaded on a Llama.

-- 
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska

[Peter Stock]

SCORE! a quick trip to my local bike repair coop (thank you BikeSauce on Broadview in Toronto) yielded what I think will work  - a Shimano HS-M651 1 1/8th threaded headset.
and Bonus! that black ring in the locknut appears (still to be tested) to be the Lip and appears to be removable (so the lock but might continue to thread down the steerer

I'll test it all next week.

peter stock
toronto canada

[robert clark]

NB  Brompton continues to use 1 1/8" threaded headsets,  [Fork steer tube 1" inside diameter.]

 though some Maker/ vendors like Chris King only make threadless

a different upper set of pieces over the upper bearing assembly   so retail inventories  will be finite..

Singapore etc.rides a lot of those bikes so has a big market,  making 'upgrade' & 'bling' parts..

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/headsets-1-18-threaded/

[robert clark]

CK  grip nut is  a good design , (if assembled carefully) as a collet, steel thread, is compressed 

around the fork tube  by tightening the top nut while holding he adjustment..  2 wrenches..  

But does not provide spacers between the 2... the 2 nut type  is needed then..

My Llama had a 10/8  grip nut  , hastily assembled,

 the collet, out of place,  was not engaging properly so kept coming loose..

taking the time to screw things together  so collet not dislodged,  and Now it has stayed in adjustment..

I had to buy 2 ... 36/40mm headset wrenches..   It's all good, now.

The low step over  bike frame  is good  for 77 year old Bob.

[Egan Onoa]

Agreed on the GripNut. You have to be careful to make sure that "collet" is down properly into its groove, but once it's there everything comes together really nicely.

As an aside, and following what Walter was saying about 1-1/4" threaded headsets, I recently had a bit of a panic that one day the lack of a replacement headset would mean my 2011 Llama would be made obsolete. I wrote to Chris King who checked their stocks and unfortunately have no more of the 1-1/4" GripNuts or parts for them. They do, however, continue to service them at a reasonable price. I think I might start using that service as opposed to doing it myself and risking the headset from now!

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[Paul Webb]

If the headsets have cartridge bearings, you might be able to source the cartridges from bearing suppliers / Aliexpress.   Depending on the headset, maybe these are press fitted into the headset, but most headsets that I've seen recently are not.  

A few other thoughts on keeping 1 1/4" threaded headsets running - corrections welcome!

I think it's only the threaded top parts of the headset that are really unique / peculiar to the 1 1/4" threaded headset.  

Everything else can be swapped in from a 1 1/4" threadless headset (SHIS designation "EC37", I think).  To be fair, EC37 isn't exactly common either, but eBay shows this threadless 1 1/4" one in the USA  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/374685793294 and this threaded one in Australia: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/326156350328.

I'd save a search on eBay and grab a spare when it comes up.

I feel like the big difference between high end headsets and cheaper ones is the quality of machining the threads on the top parts (locknuts and top 'cone'), which affects the ability to adjust  the headset finely and whether the headset then stays locked.  I'm going to be particularly careful of these parts!   On the other hand, it's the races and bearings - most particularly the lower bearings that wear ((or are damaged by dirt/corrosion) first.  If you just plan to replace the bottom bearing parts, you will have more options to buy, like this found through google. https://www.frontlinemetalshop.com/product/chris-king-nothreadset-headset-1-1-4-ec37-ec37-gold-10-year-warranty-lnfe5-xnpy900.

[Larry Newman]

Others knowing more can correct me, but due to the different wear on the top and bottom bearings, you might try swapping positions. 

-- 

Larry, Bozeman, MT

PR and (formerly a NWT, Air Friday, Tandem Tuesday, and Pocket Sport)

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[Egan Onoa]

This is incredibly helpful. Thank you!  Indeed it is the top parts of the headset that I am currently most worried about as things are getting rounded off after years of adjustments and servicing and the big fear is if I damage the threads.

I found a company in China, Improve Part, that makes long forgotten parts for older bikes. It has nut sets for Chris King threaded headsets (https://www.improvepart.com/products/grip-nut-for-chris-king-by-improvepart-team; https://www.ebay.com/itm/365602251287) that you can use with the threadless cups just like you said. Unfortunately they only make 1-1/4" nuts for the Chris King 2 nuts headset, not the Grip Nut. I've asked them if they might make 1-1/4" grip nuts and will update here if they do.  Currently shipping to the US does not appear to be happening thanks to all the tariff stuff, but people elsewhere should be able to get them.

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