Example of Calculated Question with Calculations?

[Tiffany Stull]

Hi all,

I've been trying to work on help documentation for the Tests & Quizzes Calculated Question type and I'm having a hard time understanding why you would actually include a Calculation in the question text.  As far as I can tell from the existing description on the question authoring page, the point is to show the student a step in answering the question.  However, it gives away part of the answer.  Here is the description I have come up with based on my understanding:

To include a variable value that represents a step in solving the problem, enter the calculation that will give the value in double square brackets [[ ]], for example: [[{a}+{b}]]. This example calculation might be used as follows:

Question Text: Kevin has {a} apples. He buys {b} more, so he has [[{a}+{b}]] apples. He eats {c} apples. Now he has {{d}} apples.

Sample Student View: Kevin has 5 apples. He buys 2 more, so he has 7 apples. He eats 3 apples. Now he has ___ apples.

Does anyone have an example of a Calculated Question with a Calculation written by a math or science instructor that I could see, to understand the purpose of the Calculations?

Thanks,
Tiffany Stull

[Neal Caidin]

You might do it as a test for yourself, as instructor, to see how each step plays out, as instructor. Kind of like a preview?

?

-- Neal

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[Stull, Tiffany Lee (tls6u)]

Hi Neal,

I think the wording of my question wasn't very clear.  I'm not asking, "What does the 'calculation' do?" I understand its behavior.

What I'm wondering is, "Why would anyone ever use this feature?"  That's why I'd like to see an example of a question that an instructor used, where they included the calculation in the question.

There are other features in the Tests & Quizzes tool that I've known existed for a while, but could not understand their actual uses.  An example is negative point values for questions. It seemed like an awfully harsh scoring method to me.  But Diego explained that instructors use negative points so students are more likely to think through their answers instead of randomly guessing at them (thanks, Diego!)

Because calculated questions have so many complex parts, I'd like to include an example in the help document to let users know why they might want to add a calculation in the question text.  Knowing how the calculations behave, they seem like something you would not want, because if you use them, you might include the answer to the question within the question text. 

Thanks,

Tiffany

---

From: Neal Caidin <neal....@apereo.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 6:27:14 PM
To: Stull, Tiffany Lee (tls6u)
Cc: sakai...@apereo.org
Subject: Re: [sakai-user] Example of Calculated Question with Calculations?

 

[Matthew Jones]

This question type was added to give parity to other LMSes (I'm guessing Blackboard/Moodle) as well as support because Respondus and the QTI spec contained this type. I don't think it's heavily used, mostly in Science and Math classes. 

If you look at your database you can see how many people use it. 

select * from sam_publisheditem_t where typeid=15;

I checked a few of our bigger clients one of them had just 2 uses (one was the "Kevin" example) 

Another had just about 1000 uses (out of 200000 so 0.5%)

This looks like a good writeup on Moodle with the question "Is this really the question type for you" and I believe the question behaves similarly.

The main purpose of the calculated question is to create multiple versions of a question with different numerical values.  

(Also to have it calculated and scored automatically)

  https://docs.moodle.org/22/en/Calculated_question_type

This is an nice best practice guide related to this question type (Also Moodle)

  https://www.moodlerooms.com/2012/10/02/best-practices-creating-calculated-questions-math-and-science-courses/

I think it's for math/science courses that want questions with randomly generated input values that students fill in the final answer to. So it basically just reduces the possibility of cheating since you have to know how to do the calculations.

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[Tiffany Stull]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the usage statistics - that's interesting!

However, I was not asking about why the question type exists or why you use it; I already knew it was for science and math classes and designed to change the question's values with each student take.

I am asking about a specific option within the question, which does not make sense to me.  The option is called calculations.  I would like a real-life example of why an instructor would use the option, not a simple example I create based on what I know the option does.  Reading the moodle instructions you linked, there doesn't seem to be any moodle equivalent to samigo's calculations component of the calculated question?

The current instructions for the question type within samigo are horribly confusing (see https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAM-3223).  I think it's very likely it's hard to find a real example of the question because users don't understand the instructions.  I want to improve on the instructions, using examples that make sense.

To clarify what I know about the question and why the existing description for the optional part of it is problematic, calculated questions include the following:

1. Variable(s) in the question text - the numbers that can be different for each student
   
2. Formula(s) - the equation or math operation that generates the answer from the variables - placing a formula in the text adds a text box where the student answers the question
   
3. Calculation(s) (optional) - another variable value - this one gives the student another number within the question text, the number being based on the variables included within the calculation.

The existing description within samigo says the following for why you'd use a "calculation":

These calculations can help the student to answer the question. They can also help instructor to check that the question is correctly defined before publishing it

This statement is NOT helpful to a question author - if you use the same formula as the answer formula inside the calculation, IT INCLUDES THE ANSWER IN THE QUESTION TEXT, so the student simply needs to copy the number provided into the answer box.  Sure, it "helps the student answer the question," if it provides the answer for them, but why would you want to do that?

I really don't think this optional calculation item is useful.  As indicated in my original email, here's an example of a calculated question that includes a calculation (the calculation is in bold below):

Question Text: Kevin has {a} apples. He buys {b} more, so he has [[{a}+{b}]] apples. He eats {c} apples. Now he has {{d}} apples.

Sample Student View: Kevin has 5 apples. He buys 2 more, so he has 7 apples. He eats 3 apples. Now he has ___ apples.

Component parts:

• Variables:
• Instructor View: {a}, {b}, {c}
• Sample Student View: 5, 2, 3
  
• Formula:
• Instructor View: {{d}} = ({a} + {b}) - {c}
• Sample Student View: __, the correct answer, 4, is obtained by solving (5 + 2) - 3 = 7 - 3
  
• Calculation:
• Instructor View: [[{a}+{b}]]
• Sample Student View: 7

So, as a math or science instructor, WHY would I want to use the Calculation option within the question to give students part (or all) of the answer?  If anyone has a math or science question with a real calculation that I can see, please let me know!

Thanks again,
Tiffany

[Matthew Jones]

Yeah, I don't know exactly . . . 

No-one that worked on this option back in 2013 on https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAM-2151 is still involved with Sakai and it was a feature request. It just says

"Currently there is no way to reference a calculated value in the calculated question unless it is part of the formula for the answer. Extend the existing Calculated Question work in order to allow the instructor to include calculations within the question itself."

Why would an instructor want to do this? Maybe to give part of the answer to the student to simplify calculations? Since the variables will be randomized it can't be in the actual question text otherwise. The standard calculated question says

• You can use the following math functions: SIN, COS, TAN, ASIN, ACOS, ATAN, ABS, EXP, SIGN, SQRT, FACTORIAL, LOG10, LOG, and LN.

So without a calculator it could be not worth someones time to require them to calculate sqrt or cos. What if you had something like the quadratic equation and you wanted to give the student 

Solve ax^2 + bx + c = 0.

And you calculated out the value of the the [[sqrt(exp(b,2) - 4*a*c)]] part to assist with solving and gave them that as part of the problem? Or maybe like some trig equation sin(x) = opp/hypo, and you give the calculation for [[sin(x)]]? (I don't actually know if this works)

Solve ax^2 + bx + c = 0. The calculation of the square root is [[sqrt(exp(b,2) - 4*a*c)]]  

Seems like this would be a lesser used feature of a lesser used question but it makes some sense to have it in there if it works with all the functions especially on exams that don't allow any outside resources? I the few instances I've checked I don't see any usage of this so these are all just hypothetical possibilities. 

[Jeff Pasch]

Perhaps you could run a query to find course sites where that question type is in use and then talk to those instrcutors? That would give some real world examples on how it’s actually being used. 

----

Jeff Pasch

LMS Product Director
NYU IT Application Development
New York University

212.992.7555

----

[Tiffany Stull]

Hi Matt and Jeff,

Thanks for the suggestions!  I'll see if we can find some instructors who use the option.

Tiffany

[Bryan Onstad]

Here is an example that I use for compounding interest:

You invest $[p] dollars at the age of 34 for [n] years before withdrawing it. You average 7% rate per year. It compounds semi-annually. What will your investment be worth when you withdraw it? (Round to the nearest cent and do not put a $ sign in the answer.)

Formula is: p(1.035)^2n

The advantage in Blackboard is that is will create 30 or 40 different questions.

I'm still though trying to figure out how to use factorial

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[Stull, Tiffany (tls6u)]

Hi Bryan,

 

I think this is a fairly old email thread, from when I was working on this Help article with steps to create Calculated Questions, which includes several examples.

 

Tiffany

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[Tonco Tijdeman]

Hi all,

First of all, thank you for the effort of making the calculated question instruction more understandable / readable. At Hotelschool The Hague I'm trying to get specifically the finance and markeging faculty to make use of especiallyt the calculated question option.

Concerning the 'Calculation option', I do see the added value when it's about making somwhat case based questions with complex variables. Think e.g. of an income statement which has several 'calculated variables' which may be shown and are needed to get to the actual 'calculated answer' which is ultimately tested / graded with the question. Hope that makes sense.

Regards,

Tonco

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