uh-oh ... Sakai 11 Logout Behavior

[Laura Gekeler]

I'm not sure how I'm going to explain to my campus (faculty really, because we all know none of the students actually logout, they just hit the X button on the browser tab and close the entire window...)

Anyway, please help me help my campus overcome the annoyance they're going to feel when what they used to do in Sakai 10, click "Logout," now takes them two steps, because in Sakai 11 they will get a dialogue box asking "Are you sure you want to log out?" and will need to click again.

How will I explain to them that this is better?

Thank you!

Laura

Laura Gekeler
LMS Administrator

Teaching and Learning Technologies

Apereo Foundation Board '14-2017

University of Notre Dame

Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

[Adam Marshall]

Personally I think there should be an explicit logout button. Maybe we'll do something in this area but not for a while.

Having said that, how often do people use Logout? Ebay and Amazon also hide the logout button behind 2 clicks.

I only ever log out when I'm Un-becoming a user. I would guess that in real life, students rarely log out. You would only do this on a kiosk-type machine. 

adam

On 9 Mar 2016, at 22:02, David Eveland wrote:

Does this have a property associated with it so it could be altered on a per instance basis?

Dave

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[Matthew Jones]

No, there is currently no property, this is the default and it is the only option. It is internationalized and a few people have noticed it but it is unusual behavior compared to the rest of the internet (I haven't found any other website that wants you to confirm you're logging out yet, not Facebook, Google, Amazon)

It looks like it was added by Uday and I wasn't sure why this was even added in the first place (the jira doesn't really say it was being added) and putting it behind a property (disabled by default) would mean that it could break if it were ever enabled. It already broke top.login=false, another less-often used property.

I created https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-30485 to capture doing something with this before the final release.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:02 PM, David Eveland <DEve...@johnsonu.edu> wrote:

Does this have a property associated with it so it could be altered on a per instance basis?

Dave

On Mar 9, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Laura Gekeler <lgek...@nd.edu> wrote:

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[Laura Gekeler]

I thought so, but Sam Ottenhof tells me no.

This is a step backwards in the evolution of logout behavior as far as I can tell. If someone knows a use case for requiring it, please speak up.

I would vote for backing this out.

Laura

Laura Gekeler
LMS Administrator

Teaching and Learning Technologies

Apereo Foundation Board '14-2017

University of Notre Dame

Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

On 9 March 2016 at 17:02, David Eveland <DEve...@johnsonu.edu> wrote:

Does this have a property associated with it so it could be altered on a per instance basis?

Dave

On Mar 9, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Laura Gekeler <lgek...@nd.edu> wrote:

[Gordon, Patricia S. (Trisha) (psg3a)]

I’m with you, Laura. 

[Matthew Jones]

Yeah, that is a different issue and that value for session timeout is a property. There is a warning dialog that pops up when your session is about to expire.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 3:14 PM, David Eveland <DEve...@johnsonu.edu> wrote:

What's the time out mechanism on the logout... What I mean is how much time elapsed SomeOneJust close the browser and opens it back up before being forced to login again.... Is that particular item the timeout a property that can be configured?

Dave

[Jolie Tingen]

I agree with Laura, Trisha and anyone else who thinks the logout confirmation is unnecessary.

Jolie

---

From: sakai...@apereo.org <sakai...@apereo.org> on behalf of Gordon, Patricia S. (Trisha) (psg3a) <ps...@virginia.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 5:13 PM
To: Laura Gekeler; David Eveland
Cc: sakai-user; sakai-dev

[Neal Caidin]

If I remember correctly, the rationale for having the extra logout on Sakai 11 is because of mobile behavior. On a small screen it is easier to make a mistake and log out accidentally. The extra logout question is intended to address this concern.

-- Neal

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Mary McMahon <Mary.M...@pomona.edu> wrote:

I also vote for backing it out.

Best,

Mary

----------------------

Mary McMahon

Director of Instructional

   and Research Services

Pomona College ITS

909-621-8774

[JUAN JOSé MEROñO SáNCHEZ]

Hi,

    I've made a PR https://github.com/sakaiproject/sakai/pull/1907
    Now this behaviour is disabled by default and you can enable it with a property.

Bye !!

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[Kyle Blythe]

Hi all,

As Adam/Matthew mentioned, a logout confirmation dialog just isn't a feature found in most websites (Google, FB, LinkedIn, Twitter, Dropbox, Amazon, Confluence, JIRA, Github, Trello, Slack, the list goes on...). In all of these cases, the logout/sign out button is hidden behind a user profile dropdown in the interface, and immediately logs you out once clicked. While I can see the utility in ensuring this doesn't happen accidentally on mobile, I don't think that's enough of a reason to justify complicating the logout process on desktop.

Juanjo, thank you for placing this in a property - I think that's a big improvement! I'm wondering if there's a way that this behavior (having a confirmation dialog) is something that, when enabled, could occur only on mobile - that way you get the benefits that informed the original rationale without making the logout process more difficult on desktop. What do you all think?

Best,

Kyle

--

Kyle Blythe

Product Analyst

IT .edu Services

New York University | 917-477-7171

[Paul Lukasewych]

I think this could be a user preference, with a prompt and first but
also with a clear opt-out option. Something similar to what Firefox has
when you close your browser window while multiple tabs are open. You are
prompted for confirmation but there is a checkbox allowing you to
opt-out of the warning. That way, users who desire the extra protection
from accidental logout can have it, and everyone else can just turn it off.



Paul Lukasewych
Applications Development Team
Information Technology Services
Support Services Building
Western University
(519) 661-2111 x80513
pluk...@uwo.ca

On 2016-03-10 12:47 PM, Kyle Blythe wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As Adam/Matthew mentioned, a logout confirmation dialog just isn't a
> feature found in most websites (Google, FB, LinkedIn, Twitter, Dropbox,
> Amazon, Confluence, JIRA, Github, Trello, Slack, the list goes on...). In

> *all* of these cases, the logout/sign out button is hidden behind a user

> profile dropdown in the interface, and immediately logs you out once
> clicked. While I can see the utility in ensuring this doesn't happen
> accidentally on mobile, I don't think that's enough of a reason to justify
> complicating the logout process on desktop.
>
> Juanjo, thank you for placing this in a property - I think that's a big
> improvement! I'm wondering if there's a way that this behavior (having a

> confirmation dialog) is something that, when enabled, could occur *only* on

>>> Cc: sakai-user < <sakai...@apereo.org>sakai...@apereo.org>,

>>> sakai-dev <saka...@apereo.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [sakai-users] uh-oh ... Sakai 11 Logout Behavior
>>>
>>> I agree with Laura, Trisha and anyone else who thinks the logout
>>> confirmation is unnecessary.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jolie
>>>
>>>

>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* sakai...@apereo.org <sakai...@apereo.org> on behalf of

>>> Gordon, Patricia S. (Trisha) (psg3a) < <ps...@virginia.edu>

>>> ps...@virginia.edu>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 9, 2016 5:13 PM
>>> *To:* Laura Gekeler; David Eveland
>>> *Cc:* sakai-user; sakai-dev
>>> *Subject:* Re: [sakai-users] uh-oh ... Sakai 11 Logout Behavior

>>>
>>> I’m with you, Laura.
>>>
>>> From: < <sakai...@apereo.org>sakai...@apereo.org> on behalf of Laura
>>> Gekeler < <lgek...@nd.edu>lgek...@nd.edu>
>>> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 5:11 PM
>>> To: David Eveland < <DEve...@johnsonu.edu>DEve...@johnsonu.edu>
>>> Cc: sakai-user < <sakai...@apereo.org>sakai...@apereo.org>,
>>> sakai-dev < <saka...@apereo.org>saka...@apereo.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [sakai-users] uh-oh ... Sakai 11 Logout Behavior
>>>
>>> I thought so, but Sam Ottenhof tells me no.
>>>
>>> This is a step backwards in the evolution of logout behavior as far as I
>>> can tell. If someone knows a use case for requiring it, please speak up.
>>>
>>> I would vote for backing this out.
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> Laura Gekeler
>>> LMS Administrator
>>> Teaching and Learning Technologies

>>> Apereo Foundation <https://www.apereo.org/content/projects-communities>

>>> Board '14-2017
>>> University of Notre Dame

>>> <Sakai_Te...@nd.edu>Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 March 2016 at 17:02, David Eveland < <DEve...@johnsonu.edu>
>>> DEve...@johnsonu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does this have a property associated with it so it could be altered on a
>>>> per instance basis?
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 9, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Laura Gekeler < <lgek...@nd.edu>
>>>> lgek...@nd.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how I'm going to explain to my campus (faculty really,
>>>> because we all know none of the students actually logout, they just hit the
>>>> X button on the browser tab and close the entire window...)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, please help me help my campus overcome the annoyance they're
>>>> going to feel when what they used to do in Sakai 10, click "Logout," now
>>>> takes them two steps, because in Sakai 11 they will get a dialogue box
>>>> asking "Are you sure you want to log out?" and will need to click again.
>>>>
>>>> How will I explain to them that this is better?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Laura Gekeler
>>>> LMS Administrator
>>>> Teaching and Learning Technologies

>>>> Apereo Foundation <https://www.apereo.org/content/projects-communities>

>>>> Board '14-2017
>>>> University of Notre Dame

>>>> <Sakai_Te...@nd.edu>Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

[Laura Gekeler]

Neal,

Thanks for remembering the rationale. I was certain there was one, but I would still like the community to consider removing this logout confirmation. Does anyone have an estimate of how much effort it would take?

Too many users, primarily faculty, will be logging in via desktop and logging out. Students, will more typically be those on mobile devices, doing less complicated things than faculty, and if they accidentally log out, they can intentionally login again. 

It will very much annoy our faculty to have to confirm a logout.

Thanks for listening,

Laura

Laura Gekeler
LMS Administrator

Teaching and Learning Technologies

Apereo Foundation Board '14-2017

University of Notre Dame

Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

[Charles Severance]

Laura,

I am not sure that the double prompt is as grave an issue as you are claiming.  But that said, you have a point.

If I recall, when the double prompt was added, we had a large prominent "LOGOUT" button in the upper left of the screen.   It was easy to mis-hit it in mobile and you could even mis-hit it in desktop mode.  In our early testing I was hitting logout all the time.

And if a person just was finishing the last question of a four-hour single-page final exam, tried to scroll to the top to review their questions, and inadvertently hit the Logout button, instantly logging them out without a prompt, their ire would make the ire of people having to do two clicks to logout pretty insignificant.

But... Since that time, UI redesign has moved the "Logout into the drop-down under the user's name/icon" and Logout is at the bottom of that list.

This means that instead of fat-fingering to the upper left and inadvertently logging oneself out - it takes three gestures.  (1) Select the drop down and (2) scroll to  the Logout and (3) press it.  That is much less likely to fat-finger in mobile than a big obvious upper right logout button.

I don't yet have a strong opinion on this - but I with the UI redesign I do think the double prompt is less warranted than it was before.

/Chuck

[Laura Gekeler]

Petty annoyances add up pretty fast... we just don't want Sakai 11 sullied by one that's very visible and very fixable.  ~ LG

Laura Gekeler
LMS Administrator

Teaching and Learning Technologies

Apereo Foundation Board '14-2017

University of Notre Dame

Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

[Steve Swinsburg]

Agreed, this behaviour is too complex. Four steps to logout:

This means that instead of fat-fingering to the upper left and inadvertently logging oneself out - it takes three gestures.  (1) Select the drop down and (2) scroll to  the Logout and (3) press it.  That is much less likely to fat-finger in mobile than a big obvious upper right logout button.

+ (4), confirm that you actually want to logout via the popup.

Since the logout button is behind a menu and cannot be inadvertently pressed, I don't think its necessary to go from one (press button) to four actions (the above).

I don't think a sakai property is warranted either, just make it best practice.

cheers,

Steve

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[Neal Caidin]

It sounds good to me. 

I think the original rationale made sense, but it doesn't seem like it is so important anymore, with the move of the logout button to the drop down menu. 

I also have a slight preference for not having a Sakai property, but if one was offered, I don't think it will hurt.

Thanks,

Neal