Assignments and Gradebook

[Adrian Fish]

Hi all,

I'd like to float an idea around simplifying the Assignmens/Gradebook
connection.

Currently, you can create an Assignment in the assignments tool and
have it create its own grading item in the gradebook. However, you can
then associate a different Assignment with that same grading item. You
then get a warning that scores may be overwritten and asked if you
wish to continue associating with that currently in use grading item.
I feel like we should remove this capability to have multiple
Assignments using one grading item. It makes the Assignments code more
complex and allows multiple Assignments to fight over the grades in
the grading item in Gradebook. The more I think about this
functionality as it is, the more I think it is a bit insane :)

So, I'd like to propose we remove the ability to associate multiple
Assignments with a single Gradebook grading item.

Cheers,
Adrian.

[Adam Marshall]

Simplification of code is always good.

adam

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[Paul Lukasewych]

While I'm not opposed to removing the functionality (we have it
disabled locally), one valid use case I can think of is having
different assignments released to different groups that ultimately
count towards the same grade in the Gradebook. If the group membership
is mutually exclusive, there should be no conflict writing grades to
the same item. There are other ways to accomplish this, such as using
Gradebook categories, but they may be less obvious to users. Just
something to consider.


Paul

--

Paul Lukasewych
Applications Development Team
Western Technology Services
Western University

On Fri, 2024-06-14 at 09:22 +0000, 'Adam Marshall' via Sakai

[Charles Severance]

I think we lose a lot more than we gain with too much flexibility here. In the long run, looking at LTI trends, gradebook columns need assignment-like features like a multi-valued status and the ability for an instructor to launch from the gradebook into a “view the grade for this student in this assignment”.

Right now, out LTi integration is far more rich when using assignments than when using gradebook. I would like to see the gradebook on par with Assignments feature wise. Almost to the point where an assignment is just a gradebook column with some UI and workflow to give the teacher more control and information.

If we need a way to do merging of multiple assignments to a single grade, this might be better done as a grade book feature for max flexibility.

/Chuck

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[Earle Nietzel]

This has been an issue for a long time which is why tools shouldn't store their own final grades in their local data tables, but rather ask the gradebook for storage of that final grade.

A single storage place that can be accessed by all tools is a far simpler approach and also allows for improved features regarding scores.

so +1

I should also add that there doesn't exist any cons for implementing this strategy, only pros!

-earle

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[Wilma Hodges]

+1 - The ability to associate multiple assignments with a single gradebook item has always been problematic, and simplifying the code makes a lot of sense. 

Wilma

Wilma Hodges, Ed.D., UXC

Director of Training & eLearning Initiatives

Longsight, Inc.

wi...@longsight.com 

www.longsight.com

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[Sean Horner]

-1

The proposal would induce a significant behavioral regression for instructors at my institution who use one course site for a given academic term with multiple (usually two) sections/groups of students. E.g., one group meets M W F and the other T H, where each group has distinct due dates, necessitating separate assignments in the Assignments tool, discussion activities in the Discussions tool, and assessments in the Tests & Quizzes tool.

So that the Gradebook (at least from the instructor’s perspective) does not grow inordinately large (and item titles unnecessarily long with group name identifiers), we have advised instructors to make use of a single gradebook item to be used by multiple assignments, each representing the same activity though distributed to a distinct group. This simplifies the Gradebook size (and the titles of items), which makes managing Gradebook for instructors significantly less cumbersome. 

I also recognize that this technique cannot be extended to T&Q currently (though that would be nice), Lessons graded questions and comments, etc. However this technique is currently used by instructors for activities administered through Assignments and Discussions.

Furthermore, there is the matter of the danger of using Gradebook’s Course Grade > Set Zero Score for Empty Cells feature when multiple gradebook items are not relevant for all students in the course site. More about this issue where the aforementioned technique is used as a mitigating measure is detailed here: https://kb.plu.edu/137719.

All this said, if the proposed behavior change moves forward, I request that it not be backported to Sakai 23. It’s much easier to introduce such behavior changes to users during communication campaigns for a new version of Sakai, when announcements of several feature enhancements coincide with feature changes that some otherwise perceive in a negative light.

Thanks,

Sean

[Adrian Fish]

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

I feel like Paul and Sean picked up on the use case for the single gb
column with multiple associations. I'm in the middle of some work on
the gradebook/assignments integration at the moment - that's why this
stuff was leaping out at me. I won't implement this change as part of
the work I'm doing now - I'll just let this idea percolate for a bit,
I think :)

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[bernardo.garcia]

Just for the record, we're currently working on a functionality to create different gradebook instances for different groups (see https://sakaiproject.atlassian.net/browse/S2U-26 and https://sakaiproject.atlassian.net/browse/SAK-49493), including different set of categories, weights, etc.

It would be disabled by default so people can still run the site-only version and work similarly as other multi-instance tools like Lessons. Removing the kind of association discussed here would simplify our work but we're trying to respect all the current use cases anyway.

Regards.