pursue gratis Slack upgrade for Apereo?

[Andrew Petro]

Hi, 

At the free as in cheapness tier, Apereo Slack e.g. does not provide search over the full message archive. This reduces the openness of and value in Apereo's Slack usage.

It looks like maybe Apereo could score a gratis upgrade to the "Standard" tier and its several improved openness and collaboration features (unlimited archives, better search, guest access, voice and video calls, screen sharing) via the Slack for Nonprofits program.

Is Apereo's Slack team Owner (who?) amenable to applying for this?

-Andrew

cf. mention in Apereo Slack #meta-slack.

[John A. Lewis]

Since that sounded like volunteering, I made you an owner. :)

Looks like we currently have 254 members, which is 4 over the limit for the gratis upgrade to the Standard tier. So we'd be looking at the 85% discounted rate, but would still have to pay for it.

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[Neal Caidin]

It does seem like we could qualify for the Standard plan discount [1].

If Apereo paid in advance for a year, that would be $6.67 per active user per month. 

$6.67 * .15 * 254 = $254 / month ?

It comes to $1 per month per person. And as participation grows the number goes up. 

[1] Pricing - https://apereo.slack.com/pricing

Thanks,

Neal

[Jim Helwig]

I don’t think this scales. That only covers existing users. We have thousands of people in the greater Apereo community.

If this version of the chat service that meets our needs (i.e., has archived conversations) but is not affordable (e.g., <$5K?), I recommend we look at a different chat service.

JimH

[Neal Caidin]

2 cents. I think a lot of folks like Slack, evidenced by it's degree of usage (I can get stats for you if it is of interest). 

We also had available to us (and might still have) Hipchat by Atlassian. But we didn't have much interest shown in using it.  Hipchat might meet the technical requirements (haven't investigated lately), but if nobody uses it, then it's not going to be effective. It's not just a tool thing, it's a culture thing and Slack seems to be doing pretty well on that front. 

I do agree it would be more open a little bit more useful if we got the full message archive. But I don't think it is worth the cost. And there could be a cost in trying to move to a different tool. 

If folks do want to look at an alternative chat tool, let's inventory the features in Slack that are making it popular with our community. 

Personally I'm happy-enough-with-Slack not to want to be investigating alternatives. 

-- neal

[Andrew Petro]

https://billing.gitter.im/ (Free as in cheapness for public rooms. Openness :) .)

All rooms have unlimited message history.

We've had mixed success with gitter.im in uPortal-home. The mixed is in part that it's not at all clear that project participants want to or have the capacity to be available to one another in real time via chat vs asynchronously and across timezones via email. :)

-Andrew

[Ian Dolphin (apereo)]

+1

--
Ian Dolphin
Executive Director, Apereo Foundation

[Ian Dolphin (apereo)]

I share Andrew’s final point concern, and Jim’s re scalability.

Suggest moving (or copying) this discussion to infrast...@apereo.org

Best

Ian

--
Ian Dolphin
Executive Director, Apereo Foundation

ian.d...@apereo.org

[Neal Caidin]

I've started a thread on the Infrastructure list, made a PDF of this thread and attached it. Plus summarized the discussion as succinctly, and hopefully accurately, as I was able.

-- Neal

[Andrew Petro]

wrt suggested moving this conversation to infrastructure@ list:

-1.

Infrastructure is a closed list.

I don't think this conversation will benefit more from closedness than it will from openness. Openness. Transparency. These are healthy, and they're the values of our organization. If there's enough public, open discussion and collaboration about infrastructure happening here on open@ to justify creating an infrast...@open.apereo.org email list, by all means, let's. But let's not do the thing where we fork a public, transparent, open-to-input, open-to-discovery, open-to-participation, open-to-inform-future understanding conversation into contexts that lack these openness properties. It's not worth it.

-Andrew

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 1:33:54 AM UTC-5, Ian Dolphin wrote:

...

[Laura Gekeler]

Infrastructure may be a boring topic, but of vast importance to it all. We should let people manage their own subscription lists, amount of email and so forth. Apereo is open. Yeah, what Andrew said.

Laura

Laura Gekeler
LMS Administrator

Learning Platforms

Apereo Foundation Board '14-2017

University of Notre Dame

Sakai_Te...@nd.edu

[Andrew Petro]

How about Zulip?

• It's open source, under Apache2.
• Seems like it might be pretty good.
  
• Free as in cheapness SaaS (for open source projects and foundations).
  
• Full search history (rather than the limited-to-10k-recent-messages in the gratis Slack tier)
• Commitment to develop public, search-engine-indexable view on public chat archives, though this feature is not yet available.
  

I probably still wouldn't use it myself -- but if Apereo's going to have a chat solution the unlimited full-text archives rather than cutting it off at the recent history of 10k messages seems like an important feature for openness.

(source)

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 12:07:26 PM UTC-5, Jim Helwig wrote:

[Ian Dolphin (apereo)]

Timely, as a recent attempt to add domains to our gratis Slack for sign-up purposes shows we’ve hit the limit on that front.

Any volunteers to look further at Zulip (and other solutions)?

Best

Ian

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Ian Dolphin

Apereo Foundation
ian.d...@apereo.org

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[Aaron Grant]

Not that I endorse Slack, however there is a 250 user (standard account) for Slack for non-profits for free. One of our sys admins found out about it and Oakland is looking to enroll, I think for Apereo this would result in a scaling problem. 

I think as Andrew stated an open platform would be preferable. 

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Aaron Grant
Associate Director Emerging Technology
Oakland University - UTS

[Seth Theriault]

Hello,

Well, this is timely. Here in the Libraries, we just moved an internal
Slack to the on-prem community version of Zulip in the last week. It
seems to be ticking most of our boxes, including the full search
history and other bothersome limitations. Overall, I think the local
reaction has been positive both for users (who are a technical bunch)
and admins.

I think going with the hosted-for-open-source Zulip should be
seriously considered.

Seth

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 5:55 PM, 'Andrew Petro' via Open
<op...@apereo.org> wrote: