A request from a member

[Hugh Taft-Morales]

Dear AEU EA Comm friends,

I got the following request from a member of the Philadelphia Society who now lives in Indiana. Do any of you have advice you can share with me (and/or her).

Hugh

FROM A PES MEMBER: "I’m reaching out because it looks like a draft law from the Indiana Senate regarding abortion will plan to outlaw the practice from conception. I’m seeking guidance to know if as a member of ethical culture, if indeed such a law would pass, that I could argue that it violates my religious beliefs. Before talking to lawyers, I was hoping to get more clarity on this question. Given the AEU’s statement on Roe vs Wade i thought there may be something there."

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Hugh Taft-Morales

Ethical Humanist Leader in Baltimore and Philadelphia

American Ethical Union

preferred pronouns: he, him, his

301-580-1481

[Dwight Panozzo]

Perhaps someone should check in with the Satanic Temple on their progress in this area? https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/rrr-campaigns

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[Curt Collier]

This is definitely within our religious scope.   Ethical Culture has consistently argued that a necessary condition of ethics is free will.   We should scour our documents for statements to this, and support this person in Indiana.

Curt Collier

Leader

Ethical Culture Society of Bergen County

[Carolyn Parker]

I agree with what Curt has asserted.  I will consult with the Law & Mediation Committee to explore our options.  Hugh, may I have them contact you?

c

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She/Her - Deed Before Creed - AEU Ethical Action

[Pattie Arduini]

I have often wondered why Ethical Culture doesn't use our status as a religion to counter the imposing laws on our freedom.

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[Hugh Taft-Morales]

Yes, Carolyn. If anyone on the Law & Mediation Committee thinks this is something they can offer advice about, please have them contact me!  Thanks, H

[Michael Bleiweiss]

A synagogue in Florida, Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, also brought a religious freedom lawsuit.  Might there be a way to consolidate all of these state-level suits?

We do have Societies in four anti-abortion states that could join such suits.

Michael Bleiweiss

On 7/28/2022 10:47 AM, Hugh Taft-Morales wrote:

Yes, Carolyn. If anyone on the Law & Mediation Committee thinks this is something they can offer advice about, please have them contact me!  Thanks, H

On 7/28/2022 10:46 AM, Pattie Arduini wrote:

I have often wondered why Ethical Culture doesn't use our status as a religion to counter the imposing laws on our freedom.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 10:10 AM Carolyn Parker <cpa...@aeu.org> wrote:

I agree with what Curt has asserted.  I will consult with the Law & Mediation Committee to explore our options.  Hugh, may I have them contact you?

On 7/28/2022 8:42 AM, Dwight Panozzo wrote:

Perhaps someone should check in with the Satanic Temple on their progress in this area? https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/rrr-campaigns

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 7:52 AM Curt Collier <2na...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is definitely within our religious scope.   Ethical Culture has consistently argued that a necessary condition of ethics is free will.   We should scour our documents for statements to this, and support this person in Indiana.

Curt Collier

Leader

Ethical Culture Society of Bergen County

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 8:28 AM Hugh Taft-Morales <hug...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear AEU EA Comm friends,

I got the following request from a member of the Philadelphia Society who now lives in Indiana. Do any of you have advice you can share with me (and/or her).

Hugh

FROM A PES MEMBER: "I’m reaching out because it looks like a draft law from the Indiana Senate regarding abortion will plan to outlaw the practice from conception. I’m seeking guidance to know if as a member of ethical culture, if indeed such a law would pass, that I could argue that it violates my religious beliefs. Before talking to lawyers, I was hoping to get more clarity on this question. Given the AEU’s statement on Roe vs Wade i thought there may be something there."

[Anne Wallman]

I concur with Dwight that it would be better to throw whatever weight we have into a class action suit rather than go at this alone.  If we do as Curt says and gather supporting documentation to prove that it violates our religious beliefs, we can perhaps join with a whole host of other religious groups who object.  At the root of this issue is the effort of a fundamentalist religious minority to enforce their religious beliefs on everybody else.  Does anyone know of any interfaith groups who are looking to build a coalition on this matter?  It would be poetic justice to defeat them by using religious arguments.  

Anne

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Anne

Anne Wallman

[Monica]

Perhaps reach out to Unitarian congregations, progressive Jewish congregations and even FFRF. They do a lot of legal work around separation of Church and State. Also connect with Americans United.  Monica

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 29, 2022, at 8:35 AM, Anne Wallman <an...@careerselections.com> wrote:



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[Anne Wallman]

Here's a start:

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/can-you-challenge-abortion-restrictions-on-religious-freedom-grounds/

Perhaps we can reach out to Congregation L'Dor Va-Dor with support.

There is also this organization: https://rcrc.org/

Anne

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Anne

Anne Wallman

[Joe Chuman]

Anne et.al,

 I do quite as lot of essay writing on the Sunstack site. My last piece is on the rescission of Roe, the religious right, misogyny and the political context. Perhaps some will find it of interest and value. It is the first essay on the site, which can be found at:    joe834.substack.com

Best,

Joe

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JoeC...@gmail.com is my new email address

[John McCormick]

My suggestion would be to contact Americans United.  About 6 years ago, AU approached PES asking if we could provide one of multiple plaintiffs in a suit being brought against the PA legislature to allow non-theist clergy to deliver invocations.  As a PA resident, Emeritus Leader Richard Kiniry volunteered to be one of the plaintiffs.  PES (and the AEU?) signed on to the amicus brief.  The suit was successful in that a judge ruled strongly in favor of the plaintiffs although the legislature quickly came up with a work-around.  Our contact person at AU was Alex Luchenitser, Associate VP and Associate Legal Director.

John

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[Curt Collier]

I see two important issues for us.

First, our document the Eight Commitments of Ethical Culture says that Ethics begins with a choice.  The same idea is in our Eight values document that has been used in our Sunday School for years.  We temper that statement with other commitments to affirming the worth and dignity of others.  In the Reconstruction of the Spiritual Ideal (page 157) Adler argues that personal and familial sovereignty is "sacrosanct against outside interference."  

Second, and this is to me the biggest difference, is that the notion that a few fertilized and differentiated cells is a "person" is a RELIGIOUS perspective, not a scientific one.  Moreover, such an extreme emphasis on radical individualism is a Calvanistic religious perspective not shared by our religion.  For us relationships take precedence and Adler argued that "what we need is a philosophy of groups."  To claim that a woman's body is no longer hers because she has the "potential" for life in it, is to emphasize individualism even  in extremis which once again violates our religious principles.  

What I take from this argument, and others, is that Ethical Culture members have a religious right to abortion which should not be abrograted by the state.  

Curt Collier

Leader

Ethical Culture Society of Bergen County

[Monica Weiss]

These are powerful convictions that we can assert. Monica

[Pattie Arduini]

I agree, we should assert the convictions that Curt stated.

[Michael Bleiweiss]

We need to keep in mind that the Republican justices on the Court were quite aware of their religious bias and that other religions allow abortion.  They dismissed that out of hand to advance their partisan agenda/mission.  It's not clear that they would even bother to hear a religious freedom suit that doesn't favor theirs.

These battles may need to be waged at the state level 25+ times.

Michael Bleiweiss

Anne
Anne Wallman

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:	RE: [ethical.action.list] A request from a member
Date:	Thu, 28 Jul 2022 18:12:05 -0400
From:	Michael Bleiweiss <mcblei...@verizon.net>
To:	Hugh Taft-Morales <hug...@gmail.com>, Carolyn Parker <cpa...@aeu.org>
CC:	Curt Collier <2na...@gmail.com>, Ethical Action List <Ethical.A...@aeu.org>

A synagogue in Florida, Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, also brought a religious freedom lawsuit.  Might there be a way to consolidate all of these state-level suits?

We do have Societies in four anti-abortion states that could join such suits.

Michael Bleiweiss

[Monica]

That’s a strategy that Our Children’s Trust is utilizing this state by state strategy to achieve similar results that their Juliana case might not accomplish.  Monica

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 29, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Michael Bleiweiss <mcblei...@verizon.net> wrote:

 We need to keep in mind that the Republican justices on the Court were quite aware of their religious bias and that other religions allow abortion.  They dismissed that out of hand to advance their partisan agenda/mission.  It's not clear that they would even bother to hear a religious freedom suit that doesn't favor theirs.

[Hugh Taft-Morales]

Thanks so much to each and everyone of you!  I will share your thoughts with the member and will let you know how we are going to proceed.  If you have more thoughts, please send them to me directly and not via this chain.

Yours, Hugh

[Jone Lewis]

The recent AEU statement references several of the specific positions the AEU has taken in the past.

We have never taken a position that full personhood begins at conception (or before -- some of the latest laws seem to forget that how many "weeks" one is pregnant does not begin at the point of conception, but the start of one's last menstrual period).  We have taken positions about protecting the rights of the pregnant person to make ethical choices.

Jone Johnson Lewis   she/her/hers

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 8:28 AM Hugh Taft-Morales <hug...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jone Lewis]

Adding this -- I concur that the person in Indiana is likely better off being part of a coalition that takes on the law, and would suggest that they investigate some of the options mentioned, including Americans United, as well as the ACLU to see if they are planning anything and need plaintiffs from a variety of religious groups.

In past coalitions on reproductive rights (I was on the RCRC board briefly some years ago), humanistic groups (by which I mean those that focus on "human responsibility for human problems") have been asked to take a supportive rather than leading role, to emphasize that even traditional religious values can support reproductive rights and justice, and that it's not just a "godless" issue -- humanistic and nontheistic sources don't win as many hearts and minds of legislators and judges.  It's a practical reality.

Jone Johnson Lewis   she/her/hers

[Geoffrey Smith]

In the 'ethical person', is it assumed that there will  be a balance of responsibility that would include the interest of a pregnancy, a fetus at any stage and a terminally damaged fetus?  If we are to maintain the sovereignty of choice, I would think this must describe the authority of personal decision making but not confine it to isolation from dialogue and the applicaiton of reason.

Geoffrey D.Smith

20-A Midland Avenue

White Plains, NY 10606

(914) 323-8945

geoff...@gdslegal.net

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