Disabling <blink> and <marquee>
Jor
all as of version 7.20.
Since Opera, unlike Mozilla (1), does not seem to allow for an easy way to
disable this horrible tag, what about a prefs option to disable it before
7.20 goes final? Or at least support something like -o-binding: none;
And while you're at it, add something for blinking: of course it can be
(mostly) disabled with blink {text-decoration: none;}, but I know of no way
to disable {text-decoration: blink;} from within Opera.
May I respectully remind the OS programmers of §3.3 of the User Agent
Accessibility Guidelines:
"3.3 Toggle animated or blinking text (P1)
1. Allow configuration to render animated or blinking text content as
motionless, unblinking text."
<URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG/guidelines.html#tech-on-off-blinking-text >
In my opinion implementing marquee (animated text) without allowing users
to disable it on demand is a grave mistake. If it weren't for the
Proxomitron, this would be enough of an issue to not upgrade to 7.20, or
consider moving to Phoenix/Firebird.
1): marquee { -moz-binding : none !important; }
--
Jor
Toby A Inkster
> And while you're at it, add something for blinking: of course it can be
> (mostly) disabled with blink {text-decoration: none;}, but I know of no way
> to disable {text-decoration: blink;} from within Opera.
I think the best way would be to treat the blinking / marquee text as an
animated GIF and disable it when GIF animation is disabled.
In a user style sheet, you may benefit from blink { display: none; } as
most blinking text is of little to no use.
--
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TS (Thomas Schiepek)
wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:28:15 +0200, Jor wrote:
>
>> And while you're at it, add something for blinking: of course it can be
>> (mostly) disabled with blink {text-decoration: none;}, but I know of no
>> way to disable {text-decoration: blink;} from within Opera.
>
> I think the best way would be to treat the blinking / marquee text as an
> animated GIF and disable it when GIF animation is disabled.
good idea.
--
Thomas Schiepek
_____________________________________
Opera document inspector & javascript console
http://www.miurasoft.de/docInspector/
Lauri Raittila
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:06:55 +0100, Toby A Inkster <tob...@goddamn.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:28:15 +0200, Jor wrote:
> >
> >> And while you're at it, add something for blinking: of course it can be
> >> (mostly) disabled with blink {text-decoration: none;}, but I know of no
> >> way to disable {text-decoration: blink;} from within Opera.
> >
> > I think the best way would be to treat the blinking / marquee text as an
> > animated GIF and disable it when GIF animation is disabled.
Disagreed on other thread though, that was x-posted to wishlist
http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=oprrs5tivl2zd1hc%40localhost
I wouldn't mind having them all in one box, as I woudl always have all of
them disabled.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
Toby A Inkster
> Disagreed on other thread though, that was x-posted to wishlist
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=oprrs5tivl2zd1hc%40localhost
The people of the other thread are dolts!
Why would you possibly want to have animated GIFs but static
blink/marquee? Or static GIFs, but animated blink/marquee?
It is clear that any time you would want one disabled, you would want both
disabled.
--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS | mailto:tob...@goddamn.co.uk | pgp:0x6A2A7D39
aim:inka80 | icq:6622880 | yahoo:tobyink | jabber:t...@jabber.linux.it
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Jor
words:
> Why would you possibly want to have animated GIFs but static
> blink/marquee? Or static GIFs, but animated blink/marquee?
I can see a need for the former: take some NASA webpages for example, where
star evolution is detailed in GIF animation.
But I cannot see why ANYONE would want text that *blinks*, or scrolls: it
is why I disable my Java always, usually have Javascript disabled, and have
a blink override rule in my user stylesheet. Marquee is different: since it
CANNOT be disabled, the only option I have (from within Opera) is to
completely hide it.
Thankfully I have the Proxomitron.
Still, GIF animation, blink toggle, and marquee toggle should definately
not be combined: they are quite distinct. You wouldn't argue that the
JS/Plugins/Java toggles be combined either, right?
--
Jor
Toby A Inkster
> It is said, on Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:23:15 +0100 Toby A Inkster spoke the
> words:
>
>> Why would you possibly want to have animated GIFs but static
>> blink/marquee? Or static GIFs, but animated blink/marquee?
>
> I can see a need for the former: take some NASA webpages for example, where
> star evolution is detailed in GIF animation.
Does this NASA page have <blink> or <marquee> on it?
> Still, GIF animation, blink toggle, and marquee toggle should definately
> not be combined: they are quite distinct. You wouldn't argue that the
> JS/Plugins/Java toggles be combined either, right?
JS/Plugins/Java no. Plugins/Java yes. In fact, before Opera 6.10, this is
how it was on Opera for Linux.
--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS | mailto:tob...@goddamn.co.uk | pgp:0x6A2A7D39
aim:inka80 | icq:6622880 | yahoo:tobyink | jabber:t...@jabber.linux.it
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Paul Rupe
news:oprrwixd...@news.opera.com:
> It would seem Opera has decided to force the horrible <marquee> tag on
> us all as of version 7.20.
I don't know if this was deliberate, but selecting marquee text with the
mouse sometimes stops the animation. If that doesn't work, hit Ctrl-C to
copy it. As soon as you click anywhere else it starts moving again. Fun,
fun, fun!
This is all on Linux, I don't know how the Windows version handles it.
I'll just add my voice to the sentiment others have expressed: What on
earth were the folks at Opera thinking?! At least "text-decoration:
blink" is part of the standard (although I'd be perfectly happy if O's
implementation blinked 1ns every 10,000 years), but what could possibly
motivate them to add <marquee> support? I realize some degree of IE
compatibility is a practical necessity, but surely this is one of the few
MS extensions that degrades well on its own. Were some pages actually
rendered unusable by the lack of a fully functioning <marquee> tag?
> 1): marquee { -moz-binding : none !important; }
Now where's the fun in that?
Name = "Wheee!"
Active = TRUE
URL = "$TYPE(htm)"
Limit = 256
Match = "(<body*>)\1"
Replace = "\1<marquee behavior=alternate width=100% "
"bgcolor=yellow>$STOP()"
Surprisingly, this works too:
marquee:hover {
background-color: red;
color: white;
font-size: 200%;
}
marquee:active {
background-color: blue;
color: white;
font-size: 500%;
text-decoration: blink;
}
(Followups to opera.beta)
--
Paul Rupe "She smiled, in the end."
p r u p e @ n c . r r . c o m
SAITO
wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:02:43 +0300, Lauri Raittila wrote:
>
>> Disagreed on other thread though, that was x-posted to wishlist
>> http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=oprrs5tivl2zd1hc%40localhost
>
> The people of the other thread are dolts!
>
> Why would you possibly want to have animated GIFs but static
> blink/marquee? Or static GIFs, but animated blink/marquee?
>
> It is clear that any time you would want one disabled, you would want
> both
> disabled.
Who are dolts, ha? You had better learn language on the web, young student.
I hope OS gives us a selection, that's all, and no plans to follow any
more.
--
Saito, a registered Opera user both on Windows and Linux
Using M2, 7.2 build 2981, encoded UTF-8
Matthew Winn
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:39:49 +0200, Jor wrote:
>
> > It is said, on Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:23:15 +0100 Toby A Inkster spoke the
> > words:
> >
> >> Why would you possibly want to have animated GIFs but static
> >> blink/marquee? Or static GIFs, but animated blink/marquee?
> >
> > I can see a need for the former: take some NASA webpages for example, where
> > star evolution is detailed in GIF animation.
>
> Does this NASA page have <blink> or <marquee> on it?
What's that got to do with it? We're talking about general settings,
and just because YOU never want to see any sort of animation doesn't
mean that the same applies to everyone. I don't often come across
animated gifs and there are a few sites where they're used with good
reason so I have animated gifs enabled, but I never want to see any
marquee. Am I supposed to change your proposed combined setting for
each site I visit, just to save you the immense effort of setting
a couple of extra checkboxes once?
--
Matthew Winn
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:28:15 +0200, Jor wrote:
>
>> And while you're at it, add something for blinking: of course it can be
>> (mostly) disabled with blink {text-decoration: none;}, but I know of no
>> way to disable {text-decoration: blink;} from within Opera.
>
> I think the best way would be to treat the blinking / marquee text as an
> animated GIF and disable it when GIF animation is disabled.
What use is that? I'd have to go in and change my preferences each time I
hit a page with blink or marquee. (I have no problem with animated gifs,
but do with the latter two)
>
> In a user style sheet, you may benefit from blink { display: none; } as
> most blinking text is of little to no use.
Huh? In my experience it is usually applied where the author really should
have used <strong> and disabling it would often knock out the key word in a
sentence.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:02:43 +0300, Lauri Raittila wrote:
>
>> Disagreed on other thread though, that was x-posted to wishlist
>> http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=oprrs5tivl2zd1hc%40localhost
>
> The people of the other thread are dolts!
>
> Why would you possibly want to have animated GIFs but static
> blink/marquee? Or static GIFs, but animated blink/marquee?
>
> It is clear that any time you would want one disabled, you would want
> both
> disabled.
>
Who the hell are you to dictate my viewing preferences? It isn't clear at
all. Opera is about user choice, remember.
Steve Swift
If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
--
Steve Swift
http://www.ringers.org.uk (Personal Webpage)
http://hedgehog.ts.uk.ibm.com (IBM Internal - restricted)
SAITO
>> But I cannot see why ANYONE would want text that *blinks*
>
> If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
> wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
I rather wish web-designer to use another method to attract my concerns.
Richard Grevers
>> But I cannot see why ANYONE would want text that *blinks*
>
> If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
> wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
>
Not really. Because the stnadard rendering of blink is equal on and off
times, it often takes several blink cycles to read the text, especially if
it is more than a few words - Thus use of blink doubles the reaction time
compared with using <strong> plus an eyecatching colour.
(The worst I've ever seen was a paragraph of abour 150 words in blinking
text many years ago).
Paul McGarry
> If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
> wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
Not if I happened to only catch the screen when the blink was off.
Nor if I only happened to catch part of it prior to it blinking off.
Flashing isn't a bad idea when the flash itself is the message (eg the
flashing light on top of a police car) but when the flashing obscures the
actual message then it's a definate negative.
--
Paul McGarry
http://pmcg.blogspot.com/
Jor
>> But I cannot see why ANYONE would want text that *blinks*
>
> If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
> wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
As others posted -- I'd prefer you'd use something like this:
<strong id="warning">Your house is on fire</strong>
and CSS: #warning {color: yellow; background: red; font-weight : bold;
text-transform: uppercase; line-height: 2em;}
Now THAT will draw my attention, and allow me to read it even in a terminal
browser like Lynx, since it will stand out anyway (as it is STRONGly
emphasized)
--
Jor
Mark Allread
<newsr...@dramatic.co.nz> wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2003 06:41:51 GMT, Steve Swift <Swi...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>>> But I cannot see why ANYONE would want text that *blinks*
>>
>> If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
>> wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
>>
> Not really. Because the stnadard rendering of blink is equal on and off
> times, it often takes several blink cycles to read the text, especially
> if it is more than a few words
Not really. You're assuming that you're in front of the computer, ready to
read the text. Blink allows one to tell from a significant difference
(like across the room) that some significant text is being displayed. You
are also assuming that blinks can only happen with non-contrasting
inversion. Neither of your assumptions are good ones.
--
Mike
Van Grieg
If you drive a car that's capable of moving faster than the speed limit
allows to do, would you blame the manufacturer for your speeding tickets?
Or for the fact that the speed limits are annoying?
If you don't like blinking and animated text, don't visit the sites where
it's used. If you are webmasters, don't use it. Easy as that.
--
Will work for bandwidth and archiving feature in M2
van Grieg
Gargantua Blargg @ work
Maybe some of us really are, but that's NOT the point.
> If you drive a car that's capable of moving faster than the speed limit
> allows to do, would you blame the manufacturer for your speeding tickets?
> Or for the fact that the speed limits are annoying?
In this case, I can simply drive slower to avoid the tickets.
In the case of <blink> and <marquee>, it seems that you can't turn them off
to avoid them. And THAT's the point.
Unlucky comparison, Van Grieg.
> If you don't like blinking and animated text, don't visit the sites where
> it's used.
In fact, it is a good idea. But avoiding the problem and solving it are
different things.
> If you are webmasters, don't use it. Easy as that.
I don't use them, and never will.
--
Gargantua Blargg @ work
"We did it because we're us!" - Ivan, from Golden Sun
"Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail/news client."
Lauri Raittila
with this
#warning:before, #warning:after {content: "¤";text-decoration:blink;}
It would catch it even more sure. The problem is, blink is never used to
messages like that. I think the situation where someone sees on webpage
that her house is on fire is pretty rare.
Richard Grevers
wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:58:06 +1200, Richard Grevers
> <newsr...@dramatic.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jul 2003 06:41:51 GMT, Steve Swift <Swi...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> But I cannot see why ANYONE would want text that *blinks*
>>>
>>> If I had a webpage that showed information that might interest you,
>>> wouldn't you want the item "Your house is on fire" to blink?
>>>
>> Not really. Because the stnadard rendering of blink is equal on and off
>> times, it often takes several blink cycles to read the text, especially
>> if it is more than a few words
>
> Not really. You're assuming that you're in front of the computer, ready
> to read the text. Blink allows one to tell from a significant difference
> (like across the room) that some significant text is being displayed.
From across the room your glance at the monitor is likely to be even more
fleeting, increasing further the chance that you will miss the message
entirely.
> You
> are also assuming that blinks can only happen with non-contrasting
> inversion. Neither of your assumptions are good ones.
>
I look forward to your list of browsers which render <blink> or text-
decoration:blink in some way other than alternating display/non display of
the content.
Matthew Winn
> I look forward to your list of browsers which render <blink> or text-
> decoration:blink in some way other than alternating display/non display of
> the content.
I did once use a terminal which handled blinking by alternating between
bright and dim text. It was the perfect compromise: attention-grabbing,
but without the dual disadvantages of text being invisible half the time
and a distraction when reading other parts of the screen.
--
Matthew Winn