ANN: lunatic-python 0.1
Gustavo Niemeyer
-----------
Lunatic Python is a two-way bridge between Python and Lua, allowing
these languages to intercommunicate. Being two-way means that it
allows Lua inside Python, Python inside Lua, Lua inside Python
inside Lua, Python inside Lua inside Python, and so on.
Where to get it?
----------------
Documentation, examples, and downloads are available at:
https://moin.conectiva.com.br/LunaticPython
--
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net
Paul Rubin
> What is it?
> -----------
>
> Lunatic Python is a two-way bridge between Python and Lua, allowing
> these languages to intercommunicate. Being two-way means that it
> allows Lua inside Python, Python inside Lua, Lua inside Python
> inside Lua, Python inside Lua inside Python, and so on.
>
> Where to get it?
> ----------------
But you left out the most important question: WHY?
Rene Pijlman
>Gustavo Niemeyer:
>> Lunatic Python is a two-way bridge between Python and Lua
>
And: What is Lua? What is it good for?
"Lua, the extensible, embedded language ... for extending and customizing
applications ...
- Clear and simple syntax (since it is not the main language for most of
its users).
- Small size and small implementation (so the cost of adding it to the
host will not be too high).
- Good data-description facilities (to make it useful as a configuration
language).
- Adequate extensibility (to allow its use in high abstraction levels--for
interfacing with users in diverse domains)."
http://www.lua.org/ddj.html
--
René Pijlman
Paul Rubin
> And: What is Lua? What is it good for?
>
> "Lua, the extensible, embedded language ... for extending and customizing
> applications ...
Well, yeah, but Python is sort of similar, and somebody who chooses
one has generally decided that it fills their needs better than the
other. So why such a fancy interface between them?
--Paul (who'd actually like to see Python and Lua front ends to Guile)
Gustavo Niemeyer
That's *exactly* the second topic in the web page, but since you
obviously haven't looked at it, why do you care? Keep your
arrogance for yourself please.
Arthur
<niem...@conectiva.com> wrote:
>> But you left out the most important question: WHY?
>
>That's *exactly* the second topic in the web page, but since you
>obviously haven't looked at it, why do you care? Keep your
>arrogance for yourself please.
I found the recent thread on Prototype based programming (I don't
really know what that means, BTW) interesting enough to follow the
thread to the IO Language site:
Which mentions Lua as an influence.
Which led me to the fact the Steve Dekorte (the IO BDFL) most recent
project before IO was Yindo:
"Next generation web apps" which was (its abondoned) browser plug-in
enabled Lua with built in 3d and sound. Simple download of plug-in
and do the demos - and its nice.
Connecting this up with Python sures sounds very intriguing to me.
And I am going to have a play.
Art
Terry Reedy
"Paul Rubin" <http://phr...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote
in message
> But you left out the most important question:
WHY?
Generically, people experiment because they find a
project interesting or challenging. Besides ego,
they post in case there are at least a couple of
the thousands of readers and archive searchers
interested in the topic.
[second post]
> Well, yeah, but Python is sort of similar, and
somebody who chooses
> one has generally decided that it fills their
needs better than the
> other. So why such a fancy interface between
them?
Suppose a Python afficionado, like me, find an app
that he wants to use that has Lua as the scripting
engine (I have seen such) and the person, like me,
does not really want to learn Lua. A bridge
requiring only a minimum of Lua knowledge would
make the app more interesting.
Terry J. Reedy
Bengt Richter
Why the https?
I expect you have a good explanation, but why not allow the explanation to be
seen via plain http, e.g., on an introductory page that might also tell
enough about the project so people can decide whether they want to go further?
You could just include a link to the above in the plain page, and tell people
what to expect if they click it.
Regards,
Bengt Richter
Gustavo Niemeyer
>
> I expect you have a good explanation,
Unbelievable...
Terry Reedy
"Bengt Richter" <bo...@oz.net> wrote in message
news:brfq00$so5$0...@216.39.172.122...
> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 04:05:39 -0200, Gustavo
Niemeyer <niem...@conectiva.com> wrote:
>
> >https://moin.conectiva.com.br/LunaticPython
> Why the https?
>
> I expect you have a good explanation, but why
not allow the explanation to be
> seen via plain http, e.g., on an introductory
page that might also tell
> enough about the project so people can decide
whether they want to go further?
Accessing above with default IE6 brings up
Untrusted Certificate page. With choices Proceed,
Stop, AddCertificate (to root table). It seems
conectiva issued itself its own certificate. I
hope this is just silliness rather than a devious
attempt to get people to accept its
self-certification, which I was not about to do.
I know enough that I thought it probably safe to
proceed without adding cert, but not enough to be
sure. Some people would stop there, and I might
have on another day. I recommend you take this up
with conectiva.
Terry J. Reedy
Magnus Lie Hetland
>Gustavo Niemeyer <niem...@conectiva.com> writes:
>
[snip]
>But you left out the most important question: WHY?
Not the reason cited on the page, but: Python is great for writing
apps (that is, for _me_), and Lua is great for simple (even easier
than Python) scripting of apps (that is, for the _user_). So that's
one possible use...
--
Magnus Lie Hetland "The mind is not a vessel to be filled,
http://hetland.org but a fire to be lighted." [Plutarch]
Paul Rubin
> Accessing above with default IE6 brings up Untrusted Certificate
> page. With choices Proceed, Stop, AddCertificate (to root table).
> It seems conectiva issued itself its own certificate. I hope this
> is just silliness rather than a devious attempt to get people to
> accept its self-certification, which I was not about to do.
There's no way to turn off that dialog in IE except by using a cert
from a recognized CA, which usually costs money. Using a self-signed
cert gives you a private communications channel (unless the DNS is
hijacked by an active attacker) even though it doesn't provide
authentication. Lots of people use self-signed certs instead of
paying for commercial certs.
Gustavo Niemeyer
> Certificate page. With choices Proceed, Stop,
> AddCertificate (to root table). It seems conectiva issued
> itself its own certificate. I hope this is just silliness
> rather than a devious attempt to get people to accept its
> self-certification, which I was not about to do. I know
This is mostly a developers site. The https server is used
just to protect passwords from being sent as plain text.
Also, this is not silliness, and neither an attempt to
get people to do anything. It's just "do what you can, with
what you have, where you are".
> enough that I thought it probably safe to proceed without
> adding cert, but not enough to be sure. Some people would
> stop there, and I might have on another day. I recommend
> you take this up with conectiva.
I have mentioned this in the past, and will mention again now.
Thanks.
Bengt Richter
>> Why the https?
>>
>> I expect you have a good explanation,
>[...]
>
>Unbelievable...
I apologize for whatever offense/unpleasant_astonishment I may have caused.
I'm guessing "I expect" was not the best choice of words, since one interpretation
could be to imply a totally inappropriate presumption of social relationship between us,
as between parent and a child being admonished (certainly not my attitude towards you ;-)
"Explanation" was not the best choice either, come to think of it.
I meant it in the sense of
"I'd be willing to bet you have good reasons..."
I hope that works better. Sorry (and thank you for your restrained reply ;-)
Regards,
Bengt Richter
John J. Lee
> In article <7xd6atg...@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> >Gustavo Niemeyer <niem...@conectiva.com> writes:
> >
> [snip]
> >But you left out the most important question: WHY?
>
> Not the reason cited on the page, but: Python is great for writing
> apps (that is, for _me_), and Lua is great for simple (even easier
> than Python) scripting of apps (that is, for the _user_). So that's
> one possible use...
Just wanted to say "me too", in defence of Gustavo (even though his
justification on the lunatic-python web page is quite sufficient!).
John
John J. Lee
[...]
> Accessing above with default IE6 brings up
> Untrusted Certificate page. With choices Proceed,
> Stop, AddCertificate (to root table). It seems
> conectiva issued itself its own certificate. I
> hope this is just silliness rather than a devious
> attempt to get people to accept its
> self-certification, which I was not about to do.
One would assume that nobody geeky enough to want to play with a
Python / lua bridge would want add a root certificate from some random
site on the net.
> I know enough that I thought it probably safe to
> proceed without adding cert, but not enough to be
> sure. Some people would stop there, and I might
[...]
"Probably" safe? What did you fear it could do? You're not sending
him your credit card details, right?
In fact, even if you *are* sending him your credit card details, it's
*still* of almost no consequence, SSL being pretty useless in practice
(see Bruce Schneier's writings on the subject, eg. in "Secrets and
Lies")...
John
Bengt Richter
Well, connectiva doesn't use https for their home page ;-)
But apparently all access to the moin.connectiva.com.br domain is intercepted.
If the whole thing is a wiki, I can see the reason to track updaters, but OTOH,
if publishing information is the goal, maybe they could provide read-only access
via another name, e.g., http://moinro.connectiva.com.br/, if they want to keep things
as they are for the original name. Or just show a limited sub-tree of the wiki, which
members could avoid if they didn't want their contributions read outside the group.
Regards,
Bengt Richter
Paul Rubin
> In fact, even if you *are* sending him your credit card details, it's
> *still* of almost no consequence, SSL being pretty useless in practice
> (see Bruce Schneier's writings on the subject, eg. in "Secrets and
> Lies")...
I wouldn't say SSL is useless in practice, but the CA business
certainly is 99% scam.
Michael Hudson
> In article <7xd6atg...@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:
> >Gustavo Niemeyer <niem...@conectiva.com> writes:
> >
> [snip]
> >But you left out the most important question: WHY?
>
> Not the reason cited on the page, but: Python is great for writing
> apps (that is, for _me_), and Lua is great for simple (even easier
> than Python) scripting of apps (that is, for the _user_). So that's
> one possible use...
I also happen to know that
a) apt-rpm is scriptable with lua
b) Gustavo Niemeyer is involved with the development of apt-rpm
c) Gustavo likes Python
I suspect there may be connections between the above statements :-)
Cheers,
mwh
--
>> REVIEW OF THE YEAR, 2000 <<
It was shit. Give us another one.
-- NTK Now, 2000-12-29, http://www.ntk.net/
Tim Roberts
>> Why the https?
>>
>> I expect you have a good explanation,
>
>Unbelievable...
I'm not sure I understand your disbelief. The web site is entirely static
text. I certainly do not understand why you chose to put this on an
encrypted connection with a self-issued certificate.
--
- Tim Roberts, ti...@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
John J. Lee
> Gustavo Niemeyer <niem...@conectiva.com> wrote:
>
> >> Why the https?
> >>
> >> I expect you have a good explanation,
> >
> >Unbelievable...
>
> I'm not sure I understand your disbelief. The web site is entirely static
> text. I certainly do not understand why you chose to put this on an
> encrypted connection with a self-issued certificate.
Because:
Gustavo wrote:
> This is mostly a developers site. The https server is used
> just to protect passwords from being sent as plain text.
John