"Spiv", a handy English pejorative
Prentiss Riddle
"unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv" which sounds nastily
apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
Thanks to Google, though, here's an explanation:
A spiv was typically a flashily dressed man (velvet collars and
lurid kipper ties) who made a living by various disreputable
dealings, existing by his wits rather than holding down
any job. (Another name was wide boy, with wide having
the old slang sense of sharp-witted, or skilled in sharp
practice.) He was a small-time crook, living on the fringes
of real criminality. He is most strongly associated with the
period during and immediately after the Second World War in
Britain; he always seemed able to get those coveted luxury
items that were unobtainable in that period of austerity
except on the black market, such as nylons.
The piece goes on to discuss possibly etymologies. Let us raise
a pint to Shrub Bush, our first (and hopefully last) unelected oil
spiv President!
Links and discussion at:
http://www.io.com/~riddle/language/?item=20020814
-- Prentiss Riddle ("aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada") rid...@io.com
-- You are in a maze of twisty little weblogs. http://www.io.com/~riddle/
david56
>
> Billy Clark quotes Richard Dawkins as calling George Bush an
> "unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv" which sounds nastily
> apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
>
> Thanks to Google, though, here's an explanation:
>
> A spiv was typically a flashily dressed man (velvet collars and
> lurid kipper ties) who made a living by various disreputable
> dealings, existing by his wits rather than holding down
> any job. (Another name was wide boy, with wide having
> the old slang sense of sharp-witted, or skilled in sharp
> practice.) He was a small-time crook, living on the fringes
> of real criminality. He is most strongly associated with the
> period during and immediately after the Second World War in
> Britain; he always seemed able to get those coveted luxury
> items that were unobtainable in that period of austerity
> except on the black market, such as nylons.
>
> The piece goes on to discuss possibly etymologies. Let us raise
> a pint to Shrub Bush, our first (and hopefully last) unelected oil
> spiv President!
There is a spiv in "Dad's Army" - Walker.
--
David
I say what it occurs to me to say.
=====
The address is valid today, but I will change it to keep ahead of the
spammers.
David Buttery
> Billy Clark quotes Richard Dawkins as calling George Bush an
> "unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv"
<snip>
Anyone who has seen the BBC sitcom "Dad's Army" will know exactly
what a spiv is. Private Walker is a spiv through and through!
--
"After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard
sum1...@flash.net
">: Prentiss Riddle wrote:
Political lines snipped >-
">: > apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
">: >
....
">: > period during and immediately after the Second World War in
">: > Britain; he always seemed able to get those coveted luxury
">: > items that were unobtainable in that period of austerity
">: >
...
">: There is a spiv in "Dad's Army" - Walker.
">:
Yep: to mymind, a near perfect depictionof the breed!
And going back way before that, there was a stand-up comedian, whose
name escapes me for the moment (Arthur Something?), who adopted the
spiv/wide boy dress, shoulders that stuck out about four feet, wide
silk hand painted necktie, sideburns, fast talking delivery, the
lot.
he appeared on the radio in the late Forties/early Fifties,on
variety shows like Workers' Playtime and later resurfaced looking
much older, in "Are You being served" in the early Seventies, I seem
to recall, as the rebellious surly porter/handyman.
--
Ian
(do not Reply by email: sum1else wrote this)
Irwell
> bass.a...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
>">: Prentiss Riddle wrote:
>Political lines snipped >-
>">: > apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
>">: >
>....
>">: > period during and immediately after the Second World War in
>">: > Britain; he always seemed able to get those coveted luxury
>">: > items that were unobtainable in that period of austerity
>">: >
>...
>">: There is a spiv in "Dad's Army" - Walker.
>">:
>Yep: to mymind, a near perfect depictionof the breed!
>And going back way before that, there was a stand-up comedian, whose
>name escapes me for the moment (Arthur Something?),
ARTHUR ENGLISH
Honest Len
....
">: >And going back way before that, there was a stand-up comedian, whose
">: >name escapes me for the moment (Arthur Something?),
">:
">: ARTHUR ENGLISH
You got it!
">: >Ian
--
Len.
"U can get it @< wholesale from Honest Len"
(change m to r for details)
Martin Ambuhl
>
> Billy Clark quotes Richard Dawkins as calling George Bush an
> "unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv" which sounds nastily
> apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
>
> Thanks to Google, though, here's an explanation:
I am, unfortunately, over 1000 miles from my real dictionaries.
However, the Oxford American College Dictionary (based on the 2001
Oxford American Dictionary) gives
spiv /spIv/ <n.> [Brit. informal] a man, typically characterized by
flashy dress, who makes a living by disteputable dealings.
- spivvish <adj.>; spivvy <adj.>
Similarly, the Oxford Dictionary & Thesaurus (based on COD8 and and the
Oxford edition of the Reader's Digest "Word Finder") gives
spiv /spIv/ <b. Brit. colloq.> a man, often characterized by flashy
dress, who makes a living by illicit or unscrupulous dealings.
- spivvish <adj.>, apivvy <adj.> [20th c.; orig. unkn.]
I admit that these short forms are not as entertaining as the text that
your Google search led you to. However, they do give a clear idea of
the meaning. Learning to use a dictionary is a good thing. Try it.
The results are more reliable than random stuff you find about the web.
And you really should give a source for your quotations. To say that
the text is "thanks to Google" is probably a misrepresentation and
certainly gives no assurance that it is more than the scribblings of a
5-year-old.
AlbertPeasemarch
> Billy Clark quotes Richard Dawkins as calling George Bush an
> "unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv" which sounds nastily
> apt
I can't really see Bush as a spiv (or a wide boy). A spiv has a
certain gift of the gab and wears flashy clothes. Bush, however,
stumbles over the English language and looks like he gets his clothes
by mail order from Cotton Traders.
Clinton veers more in the spiv direction than Bush, in my opinion.
He'd be more likely to sell you a watch in a pub, put it that way.
Clinton's clothes are fairly standard, I admit, but I wouldn't be
surprised if he dresses up as Elvis Presley in private.
Albert Peasemarch.
Mike Oliver
> The piece goes on to discuss possibly etymologies. Let us raise
> a pint to Shrub Bush, our first (and hopefully last) unelected oil
> spiv President!
It's nonsense to call Bush unelected. 271 electors cast their
votes for him, as opposed to 267 for Al Gore; the votes
were regularly counted on the Senate floor in early January 2001
as specified in the Constitution. That *is* the election.
The regularity of the appointment of the electors themselves
can perhaps be argued, but as questionably reasoned as Bush v. Gore
was, no plausible recount would likely have changed the outcome.
Murray Arnow
>Prentiss Riddle wrote:
>>
>> Billy Clark quotes Richard Dawkins as calling George Bush an
>> "unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv" which sounds nastily
>> apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
>>
>> Thanks to Google, though, here's an explanation:
>
>I am, unfortunately, over 1000 miles from my real dictionaries.
>However, the Oxford American College Dictionary (based on the 2001
>Oxford American Dictionary) gives
>
>spiv /spIv/ <n.> [Brit. informal] a man, typically characterized by
>flashy dress, who makes a living by disteputable dealings.
> - spivvish <adj.>; spivvy <adj.>
>
>Similarly, the Oxford Dictionary & Thesaurus (based on COD8 and and the
>Oxford edition of the Reader's Digest "Word Finder") gives
>
>spiv /spIv/ <b. Brit. colloq.> a man, often characterized by flashy
>dress, who makes a living by illicit or unscrupulous dealings.
> - spivvish <adj.>, apivvy <adj.> [20th c.; orig. unkn.]
>
To the above I'll add a quotation from Partridge's "A dictionary of the
Underworld":
spiv. ‘Petty crook who will turn his hand to anything so long as It does not
involve honest work,’ Axe! Bracey, “School for Scoundrels”, 1934; ‘A man who
gets a good living by his wits without working,’ John Worby, “The Other Half:
The Autobiography of a Spiv”, 1937; 1937, Charles Prior, “So I Wrote It”;
1937, James Curtis, “You’re in the Racket Too”; 1938, James Curtis, “They
Drive by Night”; 1938, Walter Greenwood, “Only Mugs Work”; 1938, “Sharpe of
the Flying Squad”,’ “Spivs”: Men with a knowledge of the twists and turns of
the racing game, who live by their wits (not necessarily dishonestly)’; 1939,
John Worby, “Spiv’s Progress”; by 1940, because journalists so quickly took up
the word, it was s. The term arose among the race-gangs of the 1890’s: see my
“Words at War: Words at Peace”, 1948. The word suggesting s. ‘pusher’ for’
thruster ‘,it may be cognate with, or telescoped from, Welsh Gypsy “spilav”,
‘to push’. More prob. ex dial. “spif(f)”, ‘smart, clever; neat, dandified’,
with “f” changed to “v” for ease; of. dial. “spiffer”, ‘anything first-rate’,
and s. “spiffing”, ‘first-rate’.
Don Phillipson
news:3d5c56a3...@news.CIS.DFN.DE...
> >And going back way before that, there was a stand-up comedian, whose
> >name escapes me for the moment (Arthur Something?),
>
> ARTHUR ENGLISH
-- Except only that he was a sketch comedian rather
than a standup comedian (rare in the 1950s in British
show business, although common in the US business
since Bob Hope in the 1940s.)
The Arfer English character was recreated as Arfer
Daley by actor George Cole in a British TV series called
Minder (1979-1994) playing a spiv who had settled down
in middle age into sundry semi-shady business activities.
Arfer's personal life ranged from public/economic (supported
by minder Terry McCann) the bodyguard/muscle) to private
(governed by Mrs. Daley, 'er indoors, never seen, omnipresent,
apparently unmentioned on the web site www.minder.org.)
For unimaginable reasons, most English found the name Arthur
ipso facto funny in the 20th century.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphil...@trytel.com.com.com.less2
Irwell
There was Big Hearted Arthur, Arthur Askey from Liverpool.-
Dr Robin Bignall
<dphil...@trytel.com> wrote:
>"Irwell" <tay...@softhome.net> wrote in message
>news:3d5c56a3...@news.CIS.DFN.DE...
>
>> >And going back way before that, there was a stand-up comedian, whose
>> >name escapes me for the moment (Arthur Something?),
>>
>> ARTHUR ENGLISH
>
>-- Except only that he was a sketch comedian rather
>than a standup comedian (rare in the 1950s in British
>show business, although common in the US business
>since Bob Hope in the 1940s.)
>
I remember Arthur English well from just after the war, when he appeared on
the radio in such things as "Workers' Playtime". He was a stand-up comic
then, and used to finish his act with a gabbled spiel which was so fast
that one could barely follow it, terminated with the words "Open the cage".
The characteristic kipper tie and padded shoulders of his 'spiv' uniform
made him better known after he appeared on TV.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin
sum1else
docrobi...@ntlworld.com wrote some of the following:
">: <dphil...@trytel.com> wrote:
">:
">: >"Irwell" <tay...@softhome.net> wrote
">: >
">: >> >And going back way before that, there was a stand-up comedian, whose
">: >> >name escapes me for the moment (Arthur Something?),
">: >>
">: >> ARTHUR ENGLISH
">: >
">: >-- Except only that he was a sketch comedian rather
">: >than a standup comedian (rare in the 1950s in British
">: >show business, although common in the US business
">: >since Bob Hope in the 1940s.)
">: >
Ummm ... not sure I agree with you on these two points.
Maybe we have different definitions of 'sketch artist' and 'standup
comic'?
and music hall entertainment was still - just about - extant in britain up
to maybe the mid Fifties, although very much eroded by the onset of
TV. Nearly all the comedians who were on TV in its early days
learned their trade in front of real live audiences on the music hall
circuit.
">: I remember Arthur English well from just after the war, when he appeared on
">: the radio in such things as "Workers' Playtime". He was a stand-up comic
">: then, and used to finish his act with a gabbled spiel which was so fast
">: that one could barely follow it, terminated with the words "Open the cage".
">: The characteristic kipper tie and padded shoulders of his 'spiv' uniform
">: made him better known after he appeared on TV.
">:
">: Robin
">:
Good Gawd! You must be as ancient as me.
But I'm relieved to find someone else had difficulty making out some of
what he was saying!
sum1else
snip>=-
">: >The Arfer English character was recreated as Arfer
">: >Daley by actor George Cole in a British TV series called
">: >Minder (1979-1994) playing a spiv who had settled down
">: >in middle age into sundry semi-shady business activities.
Oh. This bit just explained something for me.
I was talking to some geezer in a pub or night club 20 years or
more back and when he asked me what did I do, I made some vague
offhand reply like 'this and that, bit of this, bit of that, you know'.
(well, he could have been in the local CID for all I knew!)
And I remember his reply included something like 'Ah .. minder.
As I'd pretty well given TV up as a dead loss by then, and had never
heard of the program you mention, this response was
completely meaningless to me.
That loud clunk you heard was a penny dropping, rather belatedly.
">: >Don Phillipson
">: >Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
--
Ian (now retired and going straight, honest, I am!)
Mike Lyle
Not the right point in the thread, but my news server's gone odd
again.
A fine spiv was Flash Harry in The Belles of St Trinian's: from him,
you'll remember, Malcolm Sargent was irrevocably nicknamed. There was
once even a minor headline on one of Sargent's foreign trips -- Flash
in Japan.
Nicolas Bentley had a cartoon of a group of lads hanging about
smoking, in pegtop trousers, drapes, DAs: said one, 'When I was a spiv
there wasn't no such thing as Teddy boys'.
Mike.
Mike Lyle
>
> > The piece goes on to discuss possibly etymologies. Let us raise
> > a pint to Shrub Bush, our first (and hopefully last) unelected oil
> > spiv President!
>
> It's nonsense to call Bush unelected. 271 electors cast their
Wrong point to enter the thread, but Google Groups has gone funny
again.
A fine spiv was Flash Harry in The Belles of St Trinian's: he lent an
irrevocable nickname to Malcolm Sargent. There was even a minor
headline on one of Sargent's foreign tours -- 'Flash in Japan'.
Mike.
Mike Stevens
news:3fa4d950.0208...@posting.google.com...
> A fine spiv was Flash Harry in The Belles of St Trinian's:
Played in the whole series of St Trinian's films, IIRC, by George
Cole, who later went on to play Arthur Daley.
I'd say Flash Harry was the true spiv, and Arthur Daley his
metamorphosis in a later age.
--
Mike Stevens, narowboat "Felis Catus II"
Old teachers never die, they simply lose their class.
Off-list replies please to michael...@which.net
Web site http://www.mike-stevens.co.uk
Irwell
I'm not really sure but I think Arthur English
made some appearances on 'Are you being served'
as the stockman cum caretaker.
david56
>
> I'm not really sure but I think Arthur English
> made some appearances on 'Are you being served'
> as the stockman cum caretaker.
True. My dad told me about his background.
Dr Robin Bignall
wrote:
>"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3fa4d950.0208...@posting.google.com...
>
>> A fine spiv was Flash Harry in The Belles of St Trinian's:
>
>Played in the whole series of St Trinian's films, IIRC, by George
>Cole, who later went on to play Arthur Daley.
>
>I'd say Flash Harry was the true spiv, and Arthur Daley his
>metamorphosis in a later age.
I think that's spot on. I've always thought that spivs originally were
people who made money out of the black market, specifically during the war,
and the term later became a general purpose one for a fast-talking, bent,
flash character who could get anything on the cheap. By the time Arfur
Daley came around I thought that it had already become obsolescent.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin
Roberta Davies
>
> Billy Clark quotes Richard Dawkins as calling George Bush an
> "unelected and deeply stupid little oil spiv" which sounds nastily
> apt even though I have no idea what a spiv is.
"Oil spiv" sounds odd. ("Oily spiv" sounds OK.)
Practically by definition, a spiv doesn't specialise in any one
commodity. He'll sell you anything he can get his hands on.
Robbie