Announcing new software
Philip Ludlam
If there was a /. for RISC OS then that would be the place I would post
this. However there isn't (*) so I'm posting here :-) .
I would like to know what people rate as a good (or bad) methods for
announcing:
1) New software?
2) New versions of existing software?
Let me start with the three methods I've used in the past:
1) Post to comp.sys.acorn.announce
This is a pretty sure way of getting information out to people - who
have access to the newsgroups.
2) Post the the software-in-question's mailing list.
This is only appropriate if such a list exists. However I know that not
all users of an application would be subscribed to such a list.
3) Add/update the entry on ANS filebase
( http://filebase.acornusers.org/ )
Now hands up those of you who have heard of it :-).
Precisely.
And the two methods I've recently started using:
1) Post to ne...@drobe.co.uk
Not that they need any incentive to write an article :-) ?
2) Update Iconbar's list of software.
It's a bit hidden on the right hand side of the web page, but it's still
there.
Now there must be some flaw in this system as only last week was a
question posed on a mailing list asking if there were any updates to
Director since version 0.26, 30 Jan 1996 :-) .
So therefore I would like to know if there are better ways of promoting
software?
(*) I'm sure this thread will quickly go off topic and start debating
the merits of /. , whether something like it would be appropriate/good
for RISC OS and end up with someone starting their own /. for RISC OS
:-) .
Yours,
Phil L.
--
http://www.philipnet.com
Stuart Halliday
Philip Ludlam <phi...@philipnet.com> wrote:
What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
The user runs an app that gets a list of software and its current version
from some central source on the Internet.
It could have a front page that displays the latest or new software released.
When getting a new version the user reads its version history text via this
app and the user decides to download that version or not.
The app could list lots of apps in many different categories.
I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to do either part.
It would be damn useful for the newbie or the veterans?
It could use mysql to interrogate the Server and get back a list.
The app would need to know:
App name.
Version.
Short description.
Version History.
Location of download.
I've got access to a mysql database on the Internet if someone with the
skill of programming what to give it a try?
--
Stuart Halliday
The Acorn Cybervillage
http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/
Support us - http://www.cafepress.com/AcornCV/
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Hauke Wegner
Hash: SHA1
In message <d8a9e2fb...@philipnet.com>
Philip Ludlam <phi...@philipnet.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> If there was a /. for RISC OS then that would be the place I would post
> this. However there isn't (*) so I'm posting here :-) .
>
> I would like to know what people rate as a good (or bad) methods for
> announcing:
> 1) New software?
> 2) New versions of existing software?
>
>
> Let me start with the three methods I've used in the past:
>
> 1) Post to comp.sys.acorn.announce
> This is a pretty sure way of getting information out to people - who
> have access to the newsgroups.
This is the way i prefer to be informed that new software is avaiable.
Newsgroups are easy to use, public and fast.
> 2) Post the the software-in-question's mailing list.
> This is only appropriate if such a list exists. However I know that not
> all users of an application would be subscribed to such a list.
You already wrote it. Those mailingslists are nice for existing user and
software updates. But a mailingkist for an entire new software is
somekind of unusual...
> 3) Add/update the entry on ANS filebase
> ( http://filebase.acornusers.org/ )
> Now hands up those of you who have heard of it :-).
> Precisely.
Nic e for a complete overview. However those lists needs an intensive
maintenance.
> And the two methods I've recently started using:
>
> 1) Post to ne...@drobe.co.uk
> Not that they need any incentive to write an article :-) ?
>
> 2) Update Iconbar's list of software.
> It's a bit hidden on the right hand side of the web page, but it's still
> there.
As most i use the "web" everyday. However "web" is somekind of slow and
unintiuv to use. Load the webpage, read the headline, click on a link,
read more of the article... In most times all this comes with
images, a long list of comments and sometimes even with a weired
structed webpage which takes much time for the browser to be proceeded.
> Now there must be some flaw in this system as only last week was a
> question posed on a mailing list asking if there were any updates to
> Director since version 0.26, 30 Jan 1996 :-) .
I surely do not want to insult anyone, and i do not know the related
case. But somebody just can not be helped.
> So therefore I would like to know if there are better ways of promoting
> software?
Sure there are. Full paged announcment in magazines, broadcasting
promo spots and stuff like that. But i guess it is not useful for a
freeware/public domain software...
> (*) I'm sure this thread will quickly go off topic and start debating
> the merits of /. , whether something like it would be appropriate/good
> for RISC OS and end up with someone starting their own /. for RISC OS
> :-) .
Sincerely Hauke
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Stephen Courtney
<6332e7fb...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > If there was a /. for RISC OS then that would be the place I
> > would post this. However there isn't (*) so I'm posting here :-) .
[Snip]
> >
> > So therefore I would like to know if there are better ways of
> > promoting software?
[Snip]
> The user runs an app that gets a list of software and its current
> version from some central source on the Internet.
> It could have a front page that displays the latest or new software
> released.
To a certain extent, NetWatch
(http://home.student.utwente.nl/m.m.bezemer/netwatchukmain.html)
provides this already. It links in with the Filebase to provide
access to all the entries therein, letting you know what's been
updated. It also allows you to download an item, or go to its
homepage.
> When getting a new version the user reads its version history text
> via this app and the user decides to download that version or not.
At present there's no field in the Filebase database that keeps track
of changes between versions, but it would be possible to add one.
(The actual version number *is* recorded, along with the date of the
latest version).
> The app would need to know:
> App name.
> Version.
> Short description.
> Version History.
> Location of download.
The Filebase/Netwatch does all of these bar the version history.
Cheers,
Stephen
--
_______________________________
Home: http://www.steve-c.co.uk/
GnuPG Public key: http://www.steve-c.co.uk/key.asc
Jeremy C B Nicoll
<6332e7fb...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
> What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
> The user runs an app that gets a list of software and its current
> version from some central source on the Internet...
But how would you tell people that this (sensible-sounding) application
exists?
I can't see anything wrong with using csa.announce, though an automatic
system might be attractive too.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Stuart Halliday
Jeremy C B Nicoll <Jer...@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <6332e7fb...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
> Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
>
> > The user runs an app that gets a list of software and its current
> > version from some central source on the Internet...
>
> But how would you tell people that this (sensible-sounding) application
> exists?
I would try to get it added to Castles and Selects RISC OS builds.
This way every new user gets a copy.
> I can't see anything wrong with using csa.announce, though an automatic
> system might be attractive too.
Yes, its the way forward.
Too many people ask for a particular piece of software on the
Newsgroups/Mailinglists and no doubt many more probably don't ask and so may
think the product they want doesn't exist.
The sensible way forward is similar to what Castle do with their 32bit
software update page. Give software developers a password to add/edit their
own entry.
It would I fell also give RISC OS a real edge in making it more user
friendly.
Ben Shimmin
[...]
> What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
>
> The user runs an app that gets a list of software and its current version
> from some central source on the Internet.
Oh no. Does this mean we get package dependencies, too?
b.
--
`We first met through a shared view /
She loved me, and I did too.' -- Mike Skinner
Stephen Courtney
<0a99f1fb...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
[Snip]
> Too many people ask for a particular piece of software on the
> Newsgroups/Mailinglists and no doubt many more probably don't ask
> and so may think the product they want doesn't exist.
> The sensible way forward is similar to what Castle do with their
> 32bit software update page. Give software developers a password to
> add/edit their own entry.
But the Filebase already does this. Admittedly, you do have to
register first, but once that's done you can 'claim' responsibility
for any item of software already on there, and add your own.
It used to send emails of updates out to members on a selectable
basis (daily, weekly or monthly) but that seems to have stopped
working recently :|
Chris Williams
On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Philip Ludlam wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I would like to know what people rate as a good (or bad) methods for
> announcing:
[snip]
> 1) Post to ne...@drobe.co.uk
> Not that they need any incentive to write an article :-) ?
For freeware, open source software or shareware, we do one or two software
round ups a week. Commercial software releases usually get their own
articles. Emailing us is the best way to get our attention. We also try to
keep our recently introduced filebase up to date with new releases.
A package manager has been considered for ages and it would be nice to
finalise it and release it before too long.
--
Chris Williams | RISC OS News http://www.drobe.co.uk/
Philip Ludlam
Stephen Courtney <ste...@steve-c.co.uk> wrote:
[snip: ANS Filebase]
>It used to send emails of updates out to members on a selectable
>basis (daily, weekly or monthly) but that seems to have stopped
>working recently :|
And there I was thinking that none of the software I was watching with
it was getting updated!
Martin Wuerthner
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid> wrote:
> What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
> [...]
> The app would need to know:
>
> App name.
> Version.
> Short description.
> Version History.
> Location of download.
>
> I've got access to a mysql database on the Internet if someone with the
> skill of programming what to give it a try?
What you describe sounds more or less exactly what the Iyonix Update
Watcher does that is supplied with Castle's Iyonix. It is even a bit
cleverer than that: It learns about applications you have as soon as they
have been run at least once (so you only get update messages for the apps
you have), it knows about the version you have by examining your copy of
the application and it knows about the current version by interrogating
the server. It tells you if there is an update, it displays a short
summary of what has changed to give you an idea whether or not you want to
download it. It can point you to a web page, but even better you can
download the new version without a browser just by clicking on a button.
Martin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software mar...@invalidMW-software.com
remove "invalid" to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart Halliday
Martin Wuerthner <mar...@invalidMW-software.com.invalid> wrote:
> In message <6332e7fb...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.
invalid> wrote:
>
> > What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
> > [...]
> > The app would need to know:
> >
> > App name.
> > Version.
> > Short description.
> > Version History.
> > Location of download.
> >
> > I've got access to a mysql database on the Internet if someone with the
> > skill of programming what to give it a try?
>
> What you describe sounds more or less exactly what the Iyonix Update
> Watcher does that is supplied with Castle's Iyonix. It is even a bit
> cleverer than that: It learns about applications you have as soon as they
> have been run at least once (so you only get update messages for the apps
> you have), it knows about the version you have by examining your copy of
> the application and it knows about the current version by interrogating
> the server.
Ah, so that's why Castle's Help web page talks about apps making use of
System variables to indicate app names, version numbers and the like.
http://www.iyonix.co.uk/32bit/help.shtml
Good for Castle.
Now if they'd only release a version for RISC OS 4 users...
Thanks for this Martin.
Martin Wuerthner
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid> wrote:
Not quite. The Iyonix Updater Watcher examines a file called "_Info" in
the application directory of each application that is run. It gets its
version information from there, not from system variables.
Stuart Halliday
Martin Wuerthner <mar...@invalidMW-software.com.invalid> wrote:
> Not quite. The Iyonix Updater Watcher examines a file called "_Info" in
> the application directory of each application that is run. It gets its
> version information from there, not from system variables.
So whats the point of placing the same info in the !Boot/!Run file of the
app?
Steven Pampling
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
> Now if they'd only release a version for RISC OS 4 users...
It works on RO4.
I found out when I mapped onto the Iyonix drive and looked in the directory
containing IyoUpWtch, and then went on line from the RPC...
It runs from the !Boot...
(someones going to have the teddy out of the pram on that one)
Jochen Lueg
> In message <d8a9e2fb...@philipnet.com>
> Philip Ludlam <phi...@philipnet.com> wrote:
> > 1) Post to comp.sys.acorn.announce
> > This is a pretty sure way of getting information out to people - who
> > have access to the newsgroups.
> This is the way i prefer to be informed that new software is avaiable.
> Newsgroups are easy to use, public and fast.
The last three or four times I've posted something to that newsgroup,
nothing happened. There seems to be a problem getting through.
Jochen
--
-----------------------------------------------
Jochen Lueg joche...@argonet.co.uk
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tudor
Stuart Halliday
Steven Pampling <steve.p...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <bf5a32fc...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
> Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Now if they'd only release a version for RISC OS 4 users...
>
> It works on RO4.
Which is not the whole point though is it? ;-)
Philip Ludlam
Jochen Lueg <tu...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <fba0e7fb4b.N...@rpc01.2a1p.de>,
> Hauke Wegner <newsgr...@2a1p.de> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>
>> In message <d8a9e2fb...@philipnet.com>
>> Philip Ludlam <phi...@philipnet.com> wrote:
>
>> > 1) Post to comp.sys.acorn.announce
>> > This is a pretty sure way of getting information out to people - who
>> > have access to the newsgroups.
>
>> This is the way i prefer to be informed that new software is avaiable.
>> Newsgroups are easy to use, public and fast.
>
>The last three or four times I've posted something to that newsgroup,
>nothing happened. There seems to be a problem getting through.
I use my newsreader to post to csaa and let the software sort out what
it needs to do (the easiest way IMHO).
There's also the cs...@owlart.net address which should accept
submissions as well.
If either of these don't work then it's worth posting the announcement
to the appropriate newsgroup and then creating a stick about the fact
that something's broken in the system on csa.misc - as long as you can
provide enough diagnostic information to help sort the problem :-) .
Philip Ludlam
Martin Wuerthner <mar...@invalidMW-software.com.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
>The Iyonix Updater Watcher examines a file called "_Info" in the
>application directory of each application that is run. It gets its
>version information from there, not from system variables.
Sounds interesting.
Any chance of some one posting the contents of one or an outline of what
one is supposed to contain?
And has/can someone try getting the Iyonix Updater Watcher to update an
arbitrary piece of software this way?
Thanks in advance.
Steven Pampling
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
> > > Now if they'd only release a version for RISC OS 4 users...
> > It works on RO4.
> Which is not the whole point though is it? ;-)
No, but it shows which direction they appear to be pointing.
Stuart Halliday
> To a certain extent, NetWatch
> (http://home.student.utwente.nl/m.m.bezemer/netwatchukmain.html)
> provides this already. It links in with the Filebase to provide
> access to all the entries therein, letting you know what's been
> updated. It also allows you to download an item, or go to its
> homepage.
I must have missed this feature of Netwatch.
But for most people to use this I feel it needs to be more in the user's
face rather than hidden away.
Perhaps a different version of Netwatch that has a front 'page' with a list
of what's new?
The code is there, it just needs to be rearranged to promote the filebase
side much more.
Is the author reading this? :-)
--
Stuart Halliday
ECS Technology ltd
Nick Boalch
>> What we need is a system similar to what REDHAT do.
>>
>> The user runs an app that gets a list of software and its current version
>> from some central source on the Internet.
>
> Oh no. Does this mean we get package dependencies, too?
I did suggest this, some while ago -- I even implemented the server end
of a RISC OS package repository [1] -- but got roundly shouted down in
here by people who've never used such a system. One person called the
idea "the product of Satan's loins"...
Cheers,
N.
[1] <URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrna5nhs9.3vugmlh.ngb%40
lorca.frejol.org> (recombine onto one line) asked for anyone who was
interested in writing the client...
--
Nick Boalch <URL:http://nick.frejol.org/>
Nick Boalch
>> The last three or four times I've posted something to that newsgroup,
>> nothing happened. There seems to be a problem getting through.
>
> I use my newsreader to post to csaa and let the software sort out what
> it needs to do (the easiest way IMHO).
Perhaps I should explain what happens when you do this, which should
make it clear why it hasn't been working recently.
When you attempt to post a message to comp.sys.acorn.announce, your news
server runs up against the little flag that says 'moderated'. It then
emails your submission to the moderators for approval. So far, so good.
However, how does the server know who the moderators are? Moderators
change frequently enough that it would be unwise to rely on server
administrators having the time to repeatedly update a database on each
individual server. So there is one forwarding site, maintained by the
Internet Software Consortium. When you post an unapproved submission to
comp.sys.acorn.announce, it's simply mailed through by your server to
comp-sys-ac...@moderators.isc.org.
The problem has been that the ISC has been in the throes of a minor
staffing and implementation crisis recently, and it's been difficult to
get the forwarding from this address updated -- it's still, in fact,
pointing to cs...@spidersoft.co.uk, which hasn't been the submission
address for some while.
I was recently able to contact a human at the ISC, and the update is in
the queue to be processed, so hopefully the whole system should start
working transparently again soon.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Boalch
[ csaa submissions slightly broken ]
> I was recently able to contact a human at the ISC, and the update is in
> the queue to be processed, so hopefully the whole system should start
> working transparently again soon.
Just to confirm that the forwarding site has now been updated.
To summarise, there are three ways you can post to csa.announce:
* Email your submission to <URL:mailto:cs...@owlart.net>,
* Post your submission directly to <URL:news:comp.sys.acorn.announce>,
assuming you have a properly configured news server,
* Submit via the web at <URL:http://www.owlart.net/csaa/submit.html>.
All of these methods now definitely work.