' At's what I'm talkin'about!!!
LORD OF THE SKY
now on line.
I was rather pleased to find that it is in html form for quick and
easy viewing.
Hmmn, where is the "printable" link? You know, the link to the pdf
file for easy printing.
After searching high and low I just can't find one.
This important Safety information that we each have already anted
up to compile is not readily available in a free downloadable printed form!
Am I the only one who has a problem with that?
Hey read this; "USPA presents the SIM online here as a free
service but urges skydiving students, instructors, school owners, and others
who use the manual often to purchase a full version of the 2003 Skydiver's
Information Manual from USPA. You can also find the 2003 SIM at many
parachute equipment dealers and in the equipment case at your local
parachute center.
This reference version of the USPA Skydiver's Information Manual is not an
exact duplicate of the 2003 SIM. In the event of any discrepancy or to
obtain the full text and graphics, please refer to the official, hard-copy
version."
Are you seething yet?
Are you "outraged"?
Well just a second , you will be!
The hard copy version they are hawking to you is available only
in a spiral bound edition and will be obsolete right after the next BOD
meeting!
You paid to compile the information. They want you to pay again
to have a hard copy. The hard copy ,if you choose to purchase it will be
obsolete within 4 months.
I'm *Pissed-Off*!!! I hope that you are also!!!!!!!
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
Tom B
LORD OF THE SKY wrote in message ...
> Hey read this; "USPA presents the SIM online here as a free
>service but urges skydiving students, instructors, school owners, and
others
>who use the manual often to purchase a full version of the 2003 Skydiver's
>Information Manual from USPA. You can also find the 2003 SIM at many
>parachute equipment dealers and in the equipment case at your local
>parachute center.
Let me get this straight Don. We pay in dues, the funds used to develop and
write the SIM. We subsidize the group member program with proceeds from
membership revenue. Now we are expected to purchase said SIM from a group
member, at a profit to them of course. Is that about the story Don?
>
>This reference version of the USPA Skydiver's Information Manual is not an
>exact duplicate of the 2003 SIM. In the event of any discrepancy or to
>obtain the full text and graphics, please refer to the official, hard-copy
>version."
In order to print the manual, they have to have an exact computer document
avaiable. So instead of posting the exact one they print, they post a
version that is different? What idiot made that plan? Oh wait, if the goal
is to fund the GM's then he is not an idiot is he.
I notice that none of the candidates except Don commented on my post last
week suggesting that training materials, like those Jan hawks with every
post, should be on the USPA site and avaiable free to members. This entire
issue of having information and training materials on the web, availabe to
the members has risen in importance in my mind. It is now ranked higher than
reserve cycle extensions.
Tom B
LORD OF THE SKY
Tom B <nospam...@aol.com_nospam> wrote in message
news:5RHx9.28301$yY.33...@twister.neo.rr.com...
>
> LORD OF THE SKY wrote in message ...
> > Hey read this; "USPA presents the SIM online here as a free
> >service but urges skydiving students, instructors, school owners, and
> others
> >who use the manual often to purchase a full version of the 2003
Skydiver's
> >Information Manual from USPA. You can also find the 2003 SIM at many
> >parachute equipment dealers and in the equipment case at your local
> >parachute center.
>
> Let me get this straight Don. We pay in dues, the funds used to develop
and
> write the SIM.
Yes!
> We subsidize the group member program with proceeds from
> membership revenue.
Yes We do!
> Now we are expected to purchase said SIM from a group
> member, at a profit to them of course. Is that about the story Don?
LOL! 'At's what I'm talkin' about!!!
Enough to *piss you off* ain't it?
Oh! Don't forget that the Memberships' dollars were spent to
purchase that very expensive "pdf" software which is not being used on the
SIMS. The very software which would make it simple to print this manual!
Yeah!... We're getting Fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll say it again , "It's time for a change."
"Treetop" the Fun Jumpers Only Hope!
Livendive
"LORD OF THE SKY" <lord...@ellijay.com> wrote in message
news:aq7ea...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> The hard copy version they are hawking to you is available
only
> in a spiral bound edition and will be obsolete right after the next BOD
> meeting!
This spiral bound part (among a few things) is pretty irritating. As part
of my recent appointment, USPA sent me a new copy of the SIM as well as the
other stuff that I need in looseleaf form. I'd much prefer the SIM be
looseleaf, so I can compile everything in one notebook, and just update the
book as documents change. They could at least hole-punch the thing!
Anyhow, not being able to simply update the book from year to year is an
obvious scheme to get folks to buy a new copy every year, and I don't like
it. Our dues keep getting raised, the ante for instructional ratings is
higher, the number of (paying) members keeps expanding, and USPA is
providing less today than it did two years ago, so the obvious solution is
to increase revenue from the sale of safety documents?
Blues,
Dave
LORD OF THE SKY
Livendive <live...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:aq7pad$77oc6$1...@ID-75676.news.dfncis.de...
>Our dues keep getting raised, the ante for instructional ratings is
> higher, the number of (paying) members keeps expanding, and USPA is
> providing less today than it did two years ago, so the obvious solution is
> to increase revenue from the sale of safety documents?
Are you Outraged?
Are you Seething?
What are We going to do about it????
I suggest We elect Representatives to the BOD instead of BOD "Members".
People who will look out for Our concerns as opposed to those who refuse
to communicate with us .
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY, the Fun Jumpers only Hope
TY
SKydive City/Z-Hills
skydiving and develop a plot to assassinate some poor unfortunate over the
production of a manual.
30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
get real
"LORD OF THE SKY" <lord...@ellijay.com> wrote in message
news:aq7ea...@enews3.newsguy.com...
travis...@mail.boisestate.edu
> So I go to Our USPA website today and notice that the 2003 SIMs is
> now on line.
> I was rather pleased to find that it is in html form for quick and
> easy viewing.
I wrote a "crawler" once, for an advanced networking seminar. hmmm, how
difficult would it be to grab the whole damn thing, parse it out, and merge
it into a printable document. I'm sure that was the intent of USPA. They're
just running a little behind this week maybe? We could help them out?
-Shane
Skip Smith
SKydive City/Z-Hills wrote:
>
> certainly I will be the first to resign my membership and ratings, quit
> skydiving and develop a plot to assassinate some poor unfortunate over the
> production of a manual.
>
> 30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
> today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
>
> get real
they're just doing their part to keep world population down.
ynotssor
Piece o' cake:
wget -r -l1 -O- http://www.uspa.org/Publications/SIM/SIMtext/Skydivers_Information_Manual_2003.htm | html2ps | lp
The problem of course is the statement that the online version is different from the
official version, and may contain discrepencies.
tony
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Tom B
>certainly I will be the first to resign my membership and ratings, quit
>skydiving and develop a plot to assassinate some poor unfortunate over the
>production of a manual.
>
>30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
>today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
>
>get real
If you think Treetop is seething over just a book, then you are clearly
unable to see that the book is just one more example, in a long list of
examples, of just how far our organization is out of control, and has moved
away from serving the average member.
But since it is "just a book" can we assume you provide up to date free
copies to jumpers there? No? Didn't think so.
Oh, Treetop is as real as anybody I know that posts on the wreck.
Tom B
Jan Meyer
> Piece o' cake:
>
> wget -r -l1 -O- http://www.uspa.org/Publications/SIM/SIMtext/Skydivers_Information_Manual_2003.htm | html2ps | lp
>
Tony - most folk have no idea what that line means. Most people don't
have wget either.
THis has links to a self extracting zip file and the plain zip file of
the HTML pages.
http://ParachuteHistory.com/skydive/uspa/doctrine/sim.html
So now you can have a copy on your computer.
That ought to be worth a vote.
--
Jan Meyer
http://FixMyPages.com
http://www.ParachuteHistory.com
http://www.MakeItHappen.com
http://www.DiveMaker.com
mailto:Aeroso...@MakeItHappen.com
travis...@mail.boisestate.edu
> wget -r -l1 -O- http://www.uspa.org/Publications/SIM/SIMtext/
> Skydivers_Information_Manual_2003.htm | html2ps | lp
It's poetry...
-Shane
ynotssor
>
>> wget -r -l1 -O- http://www.uspa.org/Publications/SIM/SIMtext/Skydivers_Information_Manual_2003.htm | html2ps | lp
>
> Tony - most folk have no idea what that line means. Most people don't
> have wget either.
I realize that full-well. My purpose was to illustrate exactly your point. Shane
at least should have seen the light.
> THis has links to a self extracting zip file and the plain zip file of
> the HTML pages.
> http://ParachuteHistory.com/skydive/uspa/doctrine/sim.html
> So now you can have a copy on your computer.
> That ought to be worth a vote.
Nice work Jan, and Thank You. I think you'll do well for the membership.
If anyone is interested, wget is available at http://www.wget.org/ It will
allow one to copy a partial or entire web site, converting all URLs to local
links on your own computer so that you can view an entire web site offline.
It's a command-line utility though, and so may not be desirable for some.
For those who insist on a GUI, there's HTTrack at http://www.httrack.com
SKydive City/Z-Hills
time, then even that is unrealistic. We are a moving sport, with training
and license ratings changing, documentation changing almost daily thru the
good work of committees , instructors and members, and the FAI, FAA, IPC
just to mention a few. So just drop it.
They produce a good product, if you need the 'latest', then pick up the
phone and request it instead of bitching at it. No one is going to deliver
it to your door and no one is going to produce it daily without some
outrageous expense, of which you all seem to have a grievance as well.
Does microsoft deliver the latest rpoduct to you for free - no, and you
sometimes have to get off your ass to go find out what that is. and maybe
make a phone call or two to find out, don't be so lazy.
Organization is not out of control and the fact that we have a manual with
ongoing revisions is proof that they do actually serve the membership, not
parlaying against it as you suggest.
As far as free copies of any documentation, I am not sure what the comment
means - somehow I am supposed to fill in the gap just because you cannot get
something for free when you think it should be? Would YOU provide the world
with free copies? If not, then you are about as low as I am......
Don't be surprised if things cost money to produce, that is a fact of life,
I am surprised that someone could make such narrow-minded comments,
TK
"Tom B" <nospam...@aol.com_nospam> wrote in message
news:uwVx9.28757$yY.35...@twister.neo.rr.com...
SKydive City/Z-Hills
for such great work in such a shorty period of time, DELIVERING on the
members request without so much as a complaint or an increase in ANY fee....
good work
TK
"Jan Meyer" <Aeroso...@MakeItHappen.com> wrote in message
news:3DC82576...@MakeItHappen.com...
ynotssor
>
> If you expect USPA to keep 'up to date' copies of everything at any given
> time, then even that is unrealistic. We are a moving sport, with training
> and license ratings changing, documentation changing almost daily thru the
> good work of committees , instructors and members, and the FAI, FAA, IPC
> just to mention a few. So just drop it.
>
> They produce a good product, if you need the 'latest', then pick up the
> phone and request it instead of bitching at it. No one is going to deliver
> it to your door and no one is going to produce it daily without some
> outrageous expense, of which you all seem to have a grievance as well.
You must still be in the age of paper typewriters.
Keeping a web site updated with the most recent version of any given
electronic document takes about the same (or less) work than you put
into your entire posting.
Tom B
SKydive City/Z-Hills wrote in message ...
>now all of you pissing moaning whiners - do not forget to THANK USPA and
JAN
>for such great work in such a shorty period of time, DELIVERING on the
>members request without so much as a complaint or an increase in ANY
fee....
>good work
>TK
Just why in the hell would I want to thank USPA for Jan's effort to make it
available?
I bet you fit in at dropzone.com really well.
Tom B
Rev Jim
"SKydive City/Z-Hills" wrote
> If you expect USPA to keep 'up to date' copies of everything at any given
> time, then even that is unrealistic. We are a moving sport, with training
> and license ratings changing, documentation changing almost daily thru the
> good work of committees , instructors and members, and the FAI, FAA, IPC
> just to mention a few. So just drop it.
>
He did not ask if the USPA kept up to date copies. They do, as they should.
He asked if you kept copies at your DZ for students, and whomever else
wanted one, for free. Do you?
> They produce a good product, if you need the 'latest', then pick up the
> phone and request it instead of bitching at it. No one is going to
deliver
> it to your door and no one is going to produce it daily without some
> outrageous expense, of which you all seem to have a grievance as well.
>
Yes, it is a good product. Not great by any means, but good. It has already
been produced, probably at less than great expense, and that particular
expense was paid for by US. Not looking for "to my door" delivery, just a
downloadable link to the FULL SIM. This contains information we are REQUIRED
to know, as members. Why must we pay for it twice?
> Does microsoft deliver the latest rpoduct to you for free - no, and you
> sometimes have to get off your ass to go find out what that is. and maybe
> make a phone call or two to find out, don't be so lazy.
>
Is Micro$oft a not-for-profit company? If it was, and you were a member, and
YOUR money went to research that software, would you be pissed about having
to pay for it, knowing full well it was your money that developed it?
> Organization is not out of control and the fact that we have a manual with
> ongoing revisions is proof that they do actually serve the membership, not
> parlaying against it as you suggest.
>
OK, could you please quote the EXACT SIM text for me? Remember, this is
information you are EXPECTED to know. You paid to compile this information.
You paid for the computers it was typed into. You paid for the software on
those computers. Hell, you paid the salary of those who typed it into the
computer. Now you have to pay, again, to see what your employee typed into
your program, on your computer, that is plugged into an outlet that you pay
the electric bill on?
> As far as free copies of any documentation, I am not sure what the comment
> means - somehow I am supposed to fill in the gap just because you cannot
get
> something for free when you think it should be? Would YOU provide the
world
> with free copies? If not, then you are about as low as I am......
We are not asking for free copies. Copies incur the additional expense of
printing. This should be paid. We are asking for FULL access to the SIM,
which happens to contain the BSRs, also known as our BIBLE. Yes, I would
provide free, DOWNLOADABLE copies to the world. Many students in the past
year have used my personal, downloaded and printed, copy of the 2001 SIM to
study for their liscense exams. Why? Because I was the ONLY one on the DZ
with a current copy. One, I might add, that i would not have had, had I been
forced to pay for it. How can you know if you broke a BSR, if you have no on
site access to what the BSRs even are?
>
> Don't be surprised if things cost money to produce, that is a fact of
life,
> I am surprised that someone could make such narrow-minded comments,
> TK
>
Yes, Mr. Hayes, things cost money to produce. This one in particular has
been payed for, by us. I will not pay twice for information I am REQUIRED to
know.
Mr. Hayes, what are YOU doing to help prevent the meaningless death of 30000
children today?
Reverend James Manny
posted and mailed
Rev Jim
"ynotssor" <ynotssorAT hotmaildot `\rm -rf /` com> wrote in message
news:3dc82...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> "SKydive City/Z-Hills" <mani...@skydivecity.com> wrote in message
news:UYVx9.27148$7W2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> >
> > If you expect USPA to keep 'up to date' copies of everything at any
given
> > time, then even that is unrealistic. We are a moving sport, with
training
> > and license ratings changing, documentation changing almost daily thru
the
> > good work of committees , instructors and members, and the FAI, FAA, IPC
> > just to mention a few. So just drop it.
> >
> > They produce a good product, if you need the 'latest', then pick up the
> > phone and request it instead of bitching at it. No one is going to
deliver
> > it to your door and no one is going to produce it daily without some
> > outrageous expense, of which you all seem to have a grievance as well.
> [...]
>
> You must still be in the age of paper typewriters.
>
> Keeping a web site updated with the most recent version of any given
> electronic document takes about the same (or less) work than you put
> into your entire posting.
>
>
And the modification of a *.pdf file requires the user to click on the icon,
open the old file, type in the changes, and save. They then upload this
"updated" file to the webserver (which may very well be onsite). Then they
need to click on the MS Frontpage icon, open up the
http://www.uspa.org/Publications/SCM/scmintroduction.htm page, change the
text to 2003, and update the hyperlink to the "updated" file. Not counting
the actual typing involved in the *.pdf file change, the entire process
should take the average user less than 2 minutes.
Rev
Peter
Treetop said...
> So I go to Our USPA website today and notice that the 2003 SIMs is
> now on line.
> I was rather pleased to find that it is in html form for quick and
> easy viewing.
took some pieces and pdf'd them since some of those tables would be a bitch
in HTML.
> This important Safety information that we each have already
anted
> up to compile is not readily available in a free downloadable printed
form!
> Am I the only one who has a problem with that?
Give it time. They be just be slow getting around to it, as they were
getting it online in the first place.
> This reference version of the USPA Skydiver's Information Manual is not an
> exact duplicate of the 2003 SIM. In the event of any discrepancy or to
> obtain the full text and graphics, please refer to the official, hard-copy
> version."
I didn't read the whole thing (either copy), but a perusing a few random
samplings, and looking for some figures, tables and diagrams, it seems that
it's all there. I think that statement is part CYA and part scare
mongering.
> The hard copy version they are hawking to you is available
only
> in a spiral bound edition and will be obsolete right after the next BOD
> meeting!
> You paid to compile the information. They want you to pay
again
> to have a hard copy. The hard copy ,if you choose to purchase it will be
> obsolete within 4 months.
Well, I wouldn't say that the last couple editions are completely obsolete.
They didn't change much from 2001 to 2003. BSR changes pertain mainly to
tandem stuff (FAA medical for Tdm/I, age of majority, some things that are
FARs or were in the manufacturer's manuals anyway, and they upped the tdm
hard deck to 4500'), except self-supervised unlicensed jumpers may be
endorsed by their instructor to jump without an RSL.
If you want to use the word obsolete, then you don't have to wait 4 months,
because the 2003 SIM still lists the jump requirement for D-license as 200.
If they already knew it's going to change, they should have added the text
"(500 jumps after Sept 2003)"
>
> I'm *Pissed-Off*!!! I hope that you are also!!!!!!!
Not really.
As far as Dave's comments, I agree that 3-hole punch would be nice, in
addition to the spiral bound. I think spiral has its advantages too. It's
slightly smaller and lighter than a binder, so it fits in my gear bag pocket
when the binder won't. You can also turn the page completely over and hold
it a little easier. Of course the real driving factor was that it's
probably at least 47 cents a copy cheaper.
The thing about updates or errata sheets is that depending on what they used
to write the thing, it may have been easier to publish the whole thing
rather than an update packet. Maybe they were lazy or didn't know how to
drive MS Word or whatever they used. The other problem with updates is
inserting them into that nice sprial bound copy you bought last year!
Gotta get back to work.
BSBS
Peter
Peter
PS: If you think it's all about money, why not ask them how much profit
they generate per copy?
Livendive
"SKydive City/Z-Hills" <mani...@skydivecity.com> wrote in message
news:UYVx9.27148$7W2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> sometimes have to get off your ass to go find out what that is. and maybe
> make a phone call or two to find out, don't be so lazy.
I don't pay Microsoft $70/year to keep my software current. If I did, I
would expect them to provide that service.
> Organization is not out of control and the fact that we have a manual with
> ongoing revisions is proof that they do actually serve the membership, not
> parlaying against it as you suggest.
You're right, they are serving the membership...the GROUP Membership.
> As far as free copies of any documentation, I am not sure what the comment
> means - somehow I am supposed to fill in the gap just because you cannot
get
> something for free when you think it should be? Would YOU provide the
world
> with free copies? If not, then you are about as low as I am......
>
> Don't be surprised if things cost money to produce, that is a fact of
life,
> I am surprised that someone could make such narrow-minded comments,
Who said anything about free? We each pay ~$50-$70 per year for this kind
of information.
Blues,
Dave
Tom B
>If you expect USPA to keep 'up to date' copies of everything at any given
>time, then even that is unrealistic. We are a moving sport, with training
>and license ratings changing, documentation changing almost daily thru the
>good work of committees , instructors and members, and the FAI, FAA, IPC
>just to mention a few.
Are you incapable of simple reading? USPA promised to keep it up to date,
but only in the printed version availabe for sale. A much harder task than
keeping the web page up to date, but oh how much more profitable. Nobody is
asking for daily updates. Just that the web version be as current as the
printed, and that it be downloadable and printable for use by the members
that own it.
>So just drop it.
Ah yes. If you don't have a good position to defend, resort to telling
others to drop it. That works best at dropzone.com Give it a try there.
They even have a mother-figure to enforce it if she likes you.
>They produce a good product, if you need the 'latest', then pick up the
>phone and request it instead of bitching at it. No one is going to deliver
>it to your door and no one is going to produce it daily without some
>outrageous expense, of which you all seem to have a grievance as well.
I have not seen a single request for such delivery service. Only requests
that we have prompt maintenance of a website, which would cost far less than
printing. Far far less. Nor have I see a desire for daily updates. Only that
the web site be as current as the printed version hawked at Group Member
DZ's. Oh wait, is that why you are so upset? Profit margins slipping? Kid
need braces?
>Does microsoft deliver the latest rpoduct to you for free - no, and you
>sometimes have to get off your ass to go find out what that is. and maybe
>make a phone call or two to find out, don't be so lazy.
Do you own Microsoft? WE FUCKING OWN USPA LOCK STOCK AND BARREL!!!!!!
That work is OURS. We OWN it. And they want to sell us our own property
through GM's!!!!!!
>Organization is not out of control
I stand corrected. USPA is very well controlled BY OF A SMALL NUMBER OF
LARGE GM'S!!!!!!
>and the fact that we have a manual with
>ongoing revisions is proof that they do actually serve the membership, not
>parlaying against it as you suggest.
We have a manual? If we means GM's yes they do. The one where the most
current version is only available for sale? Where the revisions go to the
GM's for sale before the membership that paid for it gets it on OUR website?
>As far as free copies of any documentation, I am not sure what the comment
>means - somehow I am supposed to fill in the gap just because you cannot
get
>something for free when you think it should be? Would YOU provide the
world
>with free copies? If not, then you are about as low as I am......
I am not trying to defend the sale of intectual property to the people that
already legitimately own it. You are. Good luck.
>Don't be surprised if things cost money to produce, that is a fact of life,
>I am surprised that someone could make such narrow-minded comments,
You are right of course. It is narrow minded of us to complain that OUR
organization, uses OUR money, OUR headquarters, and OUR staff to develop OUR
SIM, and then SELL it to US so that GM's can make profit from US!!!!!!!!!
Tom Birdwell
D16842
ynotssor
[...]
> > You must still be in the age of paper typewriters.
> >
> > Keeping a web site updated with the most recent version of any given
> > electronic document takes about the same (or less) work than you put
> > into your entire posting.
>
> And the modification of a *.pdf file requires the user to click on the icon,
> open the old file, type in the changes, and save. They then upload this
> "updated" file to the webserver (which may very well be onsite).
It's actually in Austin TX as a virtual domain of Broadwing Communications,
but it just as well might be under someone's desk at HQ. That's part of the beauty
of it.
The minimal effort required (which you succinctly expressed) is about the same
in either case.
travis...@mail.boisestate.edu
> I bet you fit in at dropzone.com really well.
Hahahhheahaha!
-Shane
travis...@mail.boisestate.edu
> I realize that full-well. My purpose was to illustrate exactly your point. Shane
> at least should have seen the light.
ohhhhh... light... beeee-yeewww-ti-fuulllll...
-Shane
Rev Jim
"Peter" <pl@_nospam-a-lam-a-ding-dong_attbi.com> wrote in message
news:oJWx9.109960$wG.4...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
>
> PS: If you think it's all about money, why not ask them how much profit
> they generate per copy?
>
>
Well, since they sell in bulk for as low as $15 each, including shipping, I
would say it's AT LEAST $8.50 per copy at full price. Now, we all know
there's a markup in there somewhere. as far as paying for the research, man
hours to type it in to Adobe Acrobat, ect, that has already been payed for.
WE payed for it. WE pay those wages. In actuality, the profit made on the
SIMs sold is 100%, minus actual printing costs.
Rev Jim
A7WIENS
because it is sold with enhancements- special binder/study guides/include any
updates for a set time period.
Current standard and procedures should be in a bare bones PDF on the site for
all 'members'. It should be updated and 100% current with the latest revisions
with a note-last updated on next scheduled revisions on X date.
If the cost to buy adobe acrobat- is too high ($200) then they should check
into shareware- I downloaded a conversion program for $20 that would convert
the MS Word/Quark whatever into a PDF.
To leverage this as a revenue stream is more trouble than its worth.
Blue Skies and Calm Seas,
Andrew
travis...@mail.boisestate.edu
> 30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
> today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
> get real
What the hell are you doing HERE then? Get
over there and help them your heartless animal!
-Shane
travis...@mail.boisestate.edu
> Great for online use, but that's about it. Cross-references nicely. They
> took some pieces and pdf'd them since some of those tables would be a bitch
> in HTML.
effortless...
via conversion utility
-Shane
Tom B
A7WIENS wrote in message <20021105170538...@mb-dh.aol.com>...
>The SIMs can't be a large revenue stream-
Is it huge? No I agree it is not. But it speaks to a mentality that seems
invasive to the operation of the organization.
>Current standard and procedures should be in a bare bones PDF on the site
for
>all 'members'. It should be updated and 100% current with the latest
revisions
>with a note-last updated on next scheduled revisions on X date.
The money spent subsidizing the GM program could be used to get more than a
bare bones version up on the web. :)
>If the cost to buy adobe acrobat- is too high ($200) then they should check
>into shareware- I downloaded a conversion program for $20 that would
convert
>the MS Word/Quark whatever into a PDF.
Yep. But things cost more in DC.
>To leverage this as a revenue stream is more trouble than its worth.
Then why the concern over violations of copyright with a printable version?
Somevody seems to think it is worth something.
Tom B
john
operations manual.
Mike Eakins
<snip>
> Are you seething yet?
> Are you "outraged"?
Nope.
<snip>
> I'm *Pissed-Off*!!! I hope that you are also!!!!!!!
Nope.
LORD OF THE SKY
>
> 30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
> today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
>
> get real
Mr Hayes,
I would like to end world hunger ,poverty ,and even rid
the world of cancer.
As a matter of fact over the years I have volunteered a
great amount of time and resources to these very issues.
Today I am additionally concerned that my Fellow Fun Jumpers may
not have access to important safety and training manuals which could very
well save their lives.
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY
David TK Hayes
doing to further your pursuit of USPA? Or are you just complaining?
TK
"Rev Jim" <isky...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:usgcp1n...@corp.supernews.com...
David TK Hayes
"Tom B" <nospam...@aol.com_nospam> wrote in message
> SKydive City/Z-Hills wrote in message ... (an unsigned one by the way)
> That work is OURS. We OWN it. And they want to sell us our own property
> through GM's!!!!!!
>
Then get off your ass and start typing, start updating the web pages and
offer your services to solve the problem, all I see is bitching - no
constructive offering of how to solve the problem. I expect they are all
sitting around all day at USPA HQ doing nothing - so no wonder they must
have gobs of time to jump every time you need something done.
When I call, I get what I want, when I write, I get what I want (as a
MEMBER, not a DZO), have you bothered? Or do you prefer just to fight?
They don't want to SELL you your property, they want to make sure enough $$
are there to cover the cost of the next one.
paper or not, it costs $$ to produce, I am sure they can provide you with a
detailed and audited budget to see where that cost lies.
TK
Alan Binnebose
news:uPRx9.25200$7W2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> skydiving and develop a plot to assassinate some poor unfortunate over the
> production of a manual.
>
> 30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
> today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
>
> get real
So if you care so much about those children, what are YOU doing about them?
Maybe do all of the above mentioned items and use the money to buy food and
medicine?
--
Blue Skies,
Alan Binnebose
Alan Binnebose
--
Blue Skies,
Alan Binnebose
"Rev Jim" <isky...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:usgcp1n...@corp.supernews.com...
>
Tom B
David TK Hayes wrote in message ...
>Then get off your ass and start typing, start updating the web pages and
>offer your services to solve the problem, all I see is bitching - no
>constructive offering of how to solve the problem.
Several have offered the solution. Simply take the copy of the file used to
print the manual, and put it on the website. Jan put in on her site in a
couple of minutes. Is our national office so incompetent that they can't
manage it? It would take all of 5 minutes about once a year or however often
the SIM changes. That is all people are asking for.
Nobody has to re-write anything. The file is already updated before sending
it to the printer. There is absolutely no reason, be it cost, technology, or
time, that the website can't be kept up to date with the version used to
create the printed version. None. There is absolutely no excuse for a
website's version to be behind that of a printed book that takes weeks to
print and distribute.
This is not about time or effort. It is about money. How else can you
explain the stated concern that members are violating copyright by giving
copies to friends?
Tom B
JimBo
>From: "LORD OF THE SKY" lord...@ellijay.com
>
>> 30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more will
>> today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
Hey TK...you offer advice regarding "the book".....what have you done about
feeding those 30,000 starving kids, besides shoot your mouth off on an
inconsequential NG ?
A NG that Chris Needles mentioned in his Capitol Commentary I might add.
jim
D-10154
former hoe
Man small... why fall ? Skies call... thats all.
Tom B
SKydive City/Z-Hills wrote in message ...
JAN
>for such great work in such a shorty period of time, DELIVERING on the
>members request without so much as a complaint or an increase in ANY
fee....
>good work
>TK
By the way. Jan's example of how quickly and easily a SIM can be put on the
web surely blows a hole in the theory that USPA can't do so, because of lack
of resources. When it is that easy to do, and that useful for the
membership, why other than money would they not do so?
Tom B
Peter
Shane wrote:
> > Great for online use, but that's about it. Cross-references nicely.
They
> > took some pieces and pdf'd them since some of those tables would be a
bitch
> > in HTML.
>
> effortless...
> via conversion utility
> -Shane
Sure, but with a table that complex, I'm not sure you could count on it
displaying correctly on every browser out there.
Peter
"Rev Jim" wrote ...
> >
> > PS: If you think it's all about money, why not ask them how much profit
> > they generate per copy?
> Well, since they sell in bulk for as low as $15 each, including shipping,
I
> would say it's AT LEAST $8.50 per copy at full price. Now, we all know
> there's a markup in there somewhere. as far as paying for the research,
man
> hours to type it in to Adobe Acrobat, ect, that has already been payed
for.
> WE payed for it. WE pay those wages. In actuality, the profit made on the
> SIMs sold is 100%, minus actual printing costs.
Are you somehow privy to the USPA budget?
Can you specify exactly how much is allocated for SIM development, printing,
stocking, etc?
Do we even know how much development is done through paid vs. donated time?
Sounds like some questions for MWTB. Maybe there should be MWHQ (Mondays
With HeadQuarters) so we can ask them these questions.
Craig Poxon
I don't think the two can be directly compared but why do you say that John?
Harping on about the helmets rule again? At least it's free to download from
the Association's website. And it's issued in sections and filed in folders
so relevant sections can be easily updated without haveing to replace the
whole manual.
--
Craig
D11665 FSB5
http://www.poxon.org/Craig/Skydive/
Craig Poxon
news:20021105224215...@mb-cd.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: ' At's what I'm talkin'about!!!
> >From: "LORD OF THE SKY" lord...@ellijay.com
>
> >
> >> 30000 children starved to death in the world yesterday and 30000 more
will
> >> today - and you are 'seething' over a book.
>
> Hey TK...you offer advice regarding "the book".....what have you done
about
> feeding those 30,000 starving kids, besides shoot your mouth off on an
> inconsequential NG ?
>
> A NG that Chris Needles mentioned in his Capitol Commentary I might add.
Nah, he was talking about dropzone.com
Rev Jim
"Alan Binnebose" <acbin...@tznet.com> wrote in message
news:Dv2dnagB98w...@tznet.com...
Rev Jim
Allocation, sure, but that time was still paid for, period. They have a
finite amout of resources. I don't care how much you want to twist the
subject, the fact remains that these are our employees, that we pay, doing
our work. Profit is 100% minus printing cost, period.
Rev
me
[snip]
> Then get off your ass and start typing, start updating the web pages and
> offer your services to solve the problem, all I see is bitching - no
> constructive offering of how to solve the problem. I expect they are all
> sitting around all day at USPA HQ doing nothing - so no wonder they must
> have gobs of time to jump every time you need something done.
Actually, a good 8 years ago when the whole idea of a web based SIM
was first floated, as well as the idea of a USPA home page, several folks
offered their services for free to USPA. Every single one was rejected.
The primary concern of the BOD was loss of income from the sales of the
SIM. And they didn't want a web page "out of control" of the BOD and
the "home office".
People do offer TK, and their offers of help are turned down if
they aren't in line with the profit minded BOD.
Kevin O'Connell
kallend
The helmet rule is but one example, typical of the "nanny knows best"
tone of the entire thing.
But I admit it is easy to access and update
Dusty
> our work. >
Yeah, thats exactly what I told that cop who gave me a speeding ticket last
week.
The fact is, USPA has become so political, those who run it think they know
better whats good for you, than you do yourself. In their minds, sale of the
SIM generates more revenue, which allows them to do something else which
generates even more revenue.
Who, other than a skydiver would want to visit a Skydiving Museum?
How many skydivers would travel hundreds or even thousands of miles more
than once to see it? So why are we building it? As a monument to those who
have gone before us?
Dusty
ynotssor
"Dusty" <Dusty_Trale@nospam_earthlink.net> wrote in message news:UQay9.155$NI6....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
[...]
> The fact is, USPA has become so political, those who run it think they know
> better whats good for you, than you do yourself. In their minds, sale of the
> SIM generates more revenue, which allows them to do something else which
> generates even more revenue.
>
> Who, other than a skydiver would want to visit a Skydiving Museum?
>
> How many skydivers would travel hundreds or even thousands of miles more
> than once to see it? So why are we building it? As a monument to those who
> have gone before us?
You already answered your own question above. To generate even more revenue.
What do you suppose the admission charge will be after driving those hundreds or
even thousands of miles to see a museum that we already paid for?
Certainly not free, I'll be willing to bet.
tony
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Airdivr
Elaine
"Alan Binnebose" <acbin...@tznet.com> wrote in message
news:Dv2dnagB98w...@tznet.com...
Jldorman5486
the USPA. It is an entirely independent entity being headed up by a former
Executive Director of USPA..William Ottley.
So, in essence, the USPA is delving into the plan of purchasing the property
with the wishes of the museum to be located near the new USPA Head Quarters
building; and the consensus is that they haven't the money to assure that they
will be able to purchase the property that was originally 5 acres which would
have afforded a tax break for the organizations.
Tom B
>Then get off your ass and start typing, start updating the web pages and
>offer your services to solve the problem, all I see is bitching - no
>constructive offering of how to solve the problem.
Well now that you have seen Jan's post and the absolute chain of evidence that
many have offered to help, and that having a current version on the web is a
simple matter, do you want to rescind your statement above? Or just stay silent
and continue to act out the role of village idiot?
I expect they are all
>sitting around all day at USPA HQ doing nothing - so no wonder they must
>have gobs of time to jump every time you need something done.
I never said they were doing nothing. From my perspective they are working hard
and well at meeting Group Member needs.
>
>When I call, I get what I want, when I write, I get what I want (as a
>MEMBER, not a DZO), have you bothered? Or do you prefer just to fight?
Fight? I thought we were having a constructive debate regarding the merits and
issues of having the SIM online.
>They don't want to SELL you your property, they want to make sure enough $$
>are there to cover the cost of the next one.
As far the comments that SIM sales are not a matter of significance, consider
Kevin Gibson's quote Dave provided.
"I, for one, am concerned about maintaining the revenue that the SIM
produces for the USPA, which is very important (and anyway, that's
part of my job as National Director). We have to careful about 1.)
Projects that cost USPA money but do not in turn pay for themselves
(unfunded programs, mandates, or resolutions; and 2.) Taking current
revenue producers off line. [No pun?] Lester has several solutions for
my concerns, which he hopes to preent. He says there will soon be an
easy way for USPA to charge for downloading from the net.
If you would present your proposal with a financial soution, my guess
is that it would be better received."
As I have stated on the rec many times, when you dont know and can't find out
why something happens, follow the money trail. 99% of the time it will provide
you your answer.
Tom B