proper x-country ski form?
limahl
thank you for the responses to my "need help sizing x-country skis"
question...
I'm now hoping to find an .mpg or .avi or something that shows
proper cross country skiing form (technique).
In all my years of taping olypics I manages to neglect to get any
cross country skiing :(
anyone, anyone
Thanx,
Limahl
please reply to: ylimahlAThotmailDOTcom
Larry
instructional videotapes available that will show proper form. I have
one (it's at home and I can't remember the name off hand) that has no
talking.... just a guy skiing along in various styles with a
continuous "new age" music track. Check at public library or
ski/outdoors/sports shops or even video store.
Larry
yli...@hotmail.com (limahl) wrote in message news:<34dd1525.02122...@posting.google.com>...
Gene Goldenfeld
lead to plenty of world cup races, which Janne has been so wonderful to
make available to the world. The generic links are
ftp://avari182.mt.luth.se/ (pub2 and pub4)
http://avari182.mt.luth.se/
Gene
Ken Roberts
> there are numerous instructional videotapes available that will show
proper form.
All the videos I've been able to find available for sale in the last year
are targeted for _racers_. (except one that was made almost 10 years ago)
So if you know one or two videos (or interactive CDs or DVDs) for
_beginners_ or intermediates, or even some concept of a _progression_ of
learning steps, please let me know.
Ken
Ken Roberts
There are "proper" forms for:
- - looking good
- - gliding long
- - feeling smooth
- - minimizing effort on ungroomed golf courses
- - feeling powerful
- - winning marathon races
- - winning 100-meter sprints
- - burning more calories
Some of these forms are very different from others. Which one you're aiming
for is going to depend on your own current goal. But there is another very
important technique:
- - the proper form for _your_ perceptual and neuro-muscular faculties at
their current stages to _learn_ new patterns for your next stage toward
_your_ goals.
One trap to watch out for in both advice and videos is the hidden assumption
that there is only one "proper" form: usually elite racing technique. I
think the best antidote is to take lessons from a good instructor who can
help you to achieve _your_ goals.
Videos:
They're great. I've put together a list of the ones I know on this page:
www.roberts-1.com/xcski/classic/resources
including video clips available on the Web.
Caution: Almost all those videos are for racers. They assume you already
have the basics down solid. But classic striding technique is complicated
enough so that you're not going to be able to sort out which aspects of the
techniques in those videos are relevant to the learning that will help _you_
now.
There is the old NCCSEF video, Getting Started in XC Skiing Classic
Technique (if you can find it). I think it adds value. But it teaches and
vigorously demonstrates a style which has been condemned by several _racing_
experts in the last year. Nevertheless I'm sympathetic with the xcskiworld
website, that it at least could be a good stage for beginners to go
through -- and I think even an elegant "proper" form for a lifetime of
skiing (even if it's not optimal for winning races).
Take lessons.
Ken
Tim Dudley
It's full of all kinds of good stuff.
Tim
Sylvain Fauvel
: Larry wrote
: Ken
Many years back there was a good one on PBS. It was definitely
aimed at beginners. Short instructions part were mixed
with others where the viewer was invited to just look and
"feel" what xc skiing is about. I liked it. Maybe it
is the 10 years old video you mention. Anyone care to
comment on it. Is it still relevant? I liked it.
Sylvain
Ken Roberts
I bought a copy of that last year. Looks to me like it's mainly targeted
for _racers_.
Just look at the opening screen: "High Performance Power-Endurance Sport".
Who are the authors? Looks to me like two Canadian racers.
I found one page on "Real Basics", and I'm seeing like 2-5 sentences on each
of six critical beginner skills, without supporting diagrams -- maybe my CD
is an old copy, or something.
Most of the "technique" stuff is about skating, but I did find one page on
diagonal stride: 4 paragraphs.
Am I missing something here?
I would think most beginners and intermediates are going to need more help
than that. I'm not seeing a learning progression here.
Ken
Ken Roberts
> Many years back there was a good one on PBS.
Yes, I've listed that one on my Learning Resources web page:
www.roberts-1.com/xcski/classic/resources
And if you follow the Discussion link by that listing, you'll get to the
Google archive of a thread where that PBS video was last discussed on this
newsgroup.
The problem I have is thinking how much work it would take to get from
"somebody's still got a personal copy lying around somewhere", through the
duplication, distribution, and intellectual property concerns -- to make it
generally available to large numbers of learning skiers.
I'd also like to hear why it's better to resurrect that one -- rather than
the (newer?) NCCSEF beginner video, which I could still purchase from a
well-known XC ski distributor only 8 months ago.
Ken
Larry Venick
--
I have 2 videos. One is with Bill Koch giving a group lesson to 5 beginners.
The other one is by "SYBERVISION" and is actually called "Perfect Form -
Cross Country Skiing"
Available through Best Film & Video Corp (516) - 931- 6969 Cat # 2053
Has a guy skiing along to a music track, demonstrating :
Diagonal Stride
Double Pole
Double Pole w/ Kick
Straght Run
Kick Turn
Herringbone
Tuck
Telemark Position & Turn
etc.
Over and over.....
Goes on for 50 + mins.
Doesn't appear to be aimed at racers (guy is dressed in knickers and fuzzy
cap)
Don't know if it's still avail.... this was bought 7 years ago.
Larry
"Ken Roberts" <KenRob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wOFO9.79436$hK4.6...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Gary Jacobson
distilled down to a half dozen things shared in common between classic and
skating.
The video Jenex put out withj Zach Caldwell is the Readers Digest version,
and belive me, from what I know about myslef, hacve seen on teh trails, and
read in these pages, the Reader's Digest version is all we need.
Sort of like what you;d tell someone who wanted to drive a car well. "Be
alert. Watch for others- 10% of them are drunk. Know what you can't see.
Drive within the speed limit. Signal your intentions". There are other but
if the learner did those things everything else would fall into place. You
don't go telling them how to cross one hand over the other when turning the
wheel.
Not that it isn't fun or interesting to consider minutia, but most of ain't
there.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
Gary Jacobson
slow graceful skiing, and there's nothing wrong with that, 'cause if you
just quicken the tempo and turn around before glide dies, then you're
probably most of the way to racing technique. (If that's your goal.)
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
"Sylvain Fauvel" <fau...@inrs-telecom.uquebec.ca> wrote in message
news:auffav$dc7$1...@Tropolix.UQSS.UQuebec.CA...
George Cleveland
Xczone.com (http://xczone.com/frames.htm) also put out a tape recently called
"The Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique". There is a trailer from the movie on
their website. I don't know what it has in it though since when I downloaded it
and then tried to play it on my 3 year old Compaq, I was given the digital
response equivalent to "You want me to do WHAT?".
Anyway, xczone has always done above average work before and their tape has to
be at least more aesthetically pleasing than the guy in the old "Syber-Vision"
tape whose matching sweater and astonishingly HUGE pom-pomed hat seemed to be
designed to give the impression that our sport was for a refuge for geeks and
dorks.(Although the guy was an o.k. skier.)
G.C.
Ken Roberts
> The video Jenex put out with Zach Caldwell is the Readers Digest version
Sounds real promising -- but where can I (and other folks) find it?
I didn't see it on the Jenex site. What year was it made?
Ken
Ken Roberts
> I have 2 videos. One is with Bill Koch
> giving a group lesson to 5 beginners.
I bet lots of us would like a clue about where to find a copy of that one.
If you can supply any info like the title and who produced and distributed
it, I'll add it my Resources list.
> "Perfect Form - Cross Country Skiing"
Thanks - I've added it to the Resources page at
www.roberts-1.com/xcski/classic/resources
also with a link to the discussion about the "HUGE pom-pomed hat".
Ken
Ken Roberts
> Xczone.com also put out a tape recently called
> "The Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique".
I've heard of that video, but haven't seen it.
The description I just saw on their website says:
"for novice to advanced cross-country skiers"
and
"The fundamentals of both classic and skating xc skiing are concisely
packaged and delivered in 30min
by World Cup athletes and coaches."
30 minutes -- to cover novice, advanced, classic, skate? with time left
over for expert tips? Have they gone beyond the "Readers Digest" level of
condensation Gary was talking about.
I wonder if they've been able to somehow cram in some _learning_progression_
of technique styles -- or if they are just delivering "one proper ski form
for everybody"?
I downloaded the trailer, but then my computer claimed not to have a clue
how to play it.
Ken
George Cleveland
>George Cleveland wrote
>> Xczone.com also put out a tape recently called
>> "The Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique".
>
>
>I downloaded the trailer, but then my computer claimed not to have a clue
>how to play it.
>
>Ken
>
>
It's in a format labeled MP4. I suppose a person could download a driver for it
if they were of an ambitious sort.
G.C.
Edgar
> > >
> Xczone.com (http://xczone.com/frames.htm) also put out a tape recently called
> "The Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique". There is a trailer from the movie on their website.
>
> G.C.
The XCZONE DVD "High Velocity" has an "extra feature" on the
Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique. Their web site at one time had
the script to this "extra feature". The benefit of the DVD is the
ability to see Lise ski in slo-mo. Note that the "extra" is only on
the DVD, not the VHS tape of "High Velocity".
The XCZONE presentation includes wire-frame graphics if you are
interested in "form". However, the get kind of cute by rotating the
wire-frame figure around its vertical axis.
Edgar
Edgar
>
> The XCZONE DVD "High Velocity" has an "extra feature" on the
> Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique. Their web site at one time had
> the script to this "extra feature".
The XCZONE Fundamentals of XC Skiing Technique script is an Adobe pdf file:
Edgar
Ken Roberts
My immediate reaction from a quick read of the Classic topics is that XCZONE
has developed their textual content well since Tao. Deeper and fuller
concepts. Smoother writing style.
Makes me feel more hopeful about the value of the Fundamentals video for
non-racers.
Ken
Ken Roberts
the News page -- way way down under October 26. The title they give there
is "Becoming a Better Skier". Sounds like it's pretty new.
Ken