How do I see this page in Opera?
Ken Knox (N1JRO)
>How do I get the tick marks in this page to be displayed in Opera?
>
>http://www.ability.com/sales/products/abvsms.php#summary
>
>I thought they would only be images and that Opera would not have any
>problem showing them as I have image switched on.
Don't know just what to tell you on this one...the character is:
ü
and the source code specifies it in wingdings font. Kind of a wierd way of
writing it, as far as I can tell.
I'm not sure why Opera doesn't display it as the checkmark that IE5.0 does,
though.
Ken
--
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peter karlsson
> Don't know just what to tell you on this one...the character is:
> ü
> and the source code specifies it in wingdings font.
Opera is quite correct not to show a tickmark here, since the character that
is requested is not a tickmark, but a ü, which the Wingdings font does not
include.
The correct way to include a checkmark in HTML is to use the Unicode
character U+2713 - Check mark. This can be done by writing ✓ or
✓
For more information, please see the thread archived at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=9td69d%24iuk%241%40mail.opera.no
--
\\//
peter, developer / utvecklare / utvikler / Entwickler, Opera Software
The opinions expressed are my own, and not those of my employer.
Please reply only by follow-ups in the newsgroup.
Ken Knox (N1JRO)
>Ken Knox (N1JRO):
>
>> Don't know just what to tell you on this one...the character is:
>> ü
>> and the source code specifies it in wingdings font.
>
>Opera is quite correct not to show a tickmark here, since the character that
>is requested is not a tickmark, but a ü, which the Wingdings font does not
>include.
>
>The correct way to include a checkmark in HTML is to use the Unicode
>character U+2713 - Check mark. This can be done by writing ✓ or
>✓
>
>For more information, please see the thread archived at:
>http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=9td69d%24iuk%241%40mail.opera.no
>
>--
Thanks for the clarification, Peter...That's about what I would have
guessed, but I wasn't sure.
Harald Holmqvist
>How do I get the tick marks in this page to be displayed in Opera?
>
>http://www.ability.com/sales/products/abvsms.php#summary
>
<snip>
Opera doesn't seem to be very good at handling symbol fonts.
At least, I can't get Opera to make anything useful of Wingdings,
Wingdings2, Zapf Dingbats and others I've tried.
Either I get the keyboard letter instead of the intended corresponding
symbol (as in your page) or I just get an empty box.
If any settings are to be done to fix this, I don't know which.
Kidnap works, though, and other more eccentric fonts I have in my
system, as long as they are presenting letters, not symbols.
Regards
Harald H
Richard Grevers
<77134B4D14F148AD.1346E8FE...@lp.airnews.net>,
Harald Holmqvist said...
guaranteed (especially a font like wingdings which is not available for
OS's other than windows), the glyph specified in the source must always
have priority. The page specified a u-umlaut, and the Win 1252 charset
(which contains a u-umlaut, but does not contain a tick-mark). Opera
delivered a u-umlaut. Presumably the "web designer" was fooled by one of
MSIE's many standards bugs.
Josef W. Segur
>Ken Knox (N1JRO):
>
>> Don't know just what to tell you on this one...the character is:
>> ü
>> and the source code specifies it in wingdings font.
>
>Opera is quite correct not to show a tickmark here, since the character that
>is requested is not a tickmark, but a ü, which the Wingdings font does not
>include.
>
>The correct way to include a checkmark in HTML is to use the Unicode
>character U+2713 - Check mark. This can be done by writing ✓ or
>✓
And then the page author could add a note that the page won't work in
Opera 5.12 or earlier, and Windows users must have the 'Arial Unicode
MS', 'Code2000', 'Lucida Sans', or 'MS Mincho' font installed. Those
are the only fonts for Windows which Alan Wood says have the Dingbats
range at http://www.hclrss.demon.co.uk/unicode/fontsbyrange.html
(I'll also note that the 'MS Mincho' font from the Japanese support
package I downloaded from Microsoft the beginning of this year does
not claim support for Dingbats nor does it contain any glyphs in that
range.)
Let's be slightly practical and simply say the only reliable way to
show a checkmark in Opera would be as a small image. Then again, since
most other browsers at least try to show a character in the selected
font before deciding they need to switch, the page author will almost
certainly decide not to change just to make the page work with Opera.
Don't get me wrong, I am glad Opera has added support for Unicode. I
just don't expect the web to adapt rapidly to Unicode standards.
--
Joe
Coises
>Opera doesn't seem to be very good at handling symbol fonts.
>At least, I can't get Opera to make anything useful of Wingdings,
>Wingdings2, Zapf Dingbats and others I've tried.
Windows "symbol fonts" are a bit odd, and they way they're usually used in
Windows is incompatible with a strict interpretation of web standards.
(In effect, a "symbol font" causes Windows to use the special "Symbol"
code page for the data to be displayed in that font. Current web standards
do not make it possible to change the mapping between input data and the
underlying Unicode character set *within* a web page.)
Pre-Unicode browsers usually managed to handle this successfully --- if
they were running on a Windows system with the requested font installed ---
because a non-Unicode browser isn't likely to have any reason to implement
the parts of the standard of which symbol fonts run afoul.
Other browsers --- at least IE, and I suspect Netscape/Mozilla as well ---
have implemented Unicode in such a way that "backward compatibility" with
the non-standard use of Windows Symbol fonts is still practical.
As far as I can tell, Opera has implemented Unicode in such a way that it
would be very difficult --- if not impossible --- to abandon the strict
standard and use "old-fashioned" 8-bit processing for Windows symbol fonts.
It is possible to characters from a symbol font in Opera by using the
&nnnn; codes for their locations in the "Private Use Area"; try this:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Symbol font characters</TITLE>
</HEAD><BODY>
<P><FONT FACE="Symbol">
 abcde
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT FACE="Webdings">
 abcde
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT FACE="Wingdings">
 abcde
</FONT></P>
</BODY></HTML>
as an example.
Now, here's the real kicker. Compare the results in IE 5 or IE 6. :-(
These browsers fail to interpret the Private Use Characters correctly, even
though the characters are defined at those code points. (You can verify
that by using the Windows Character Map utility.) I don't know what
current versions of Mozilla/Netscape do.
Older, pre-Unicode browsers will behave just about the way IE does; and the
code which works in Opera (which is the only strictly correct way to use
the full range of characters from a Symbol font in HTML 4) fails in all
versions of IE and at least pre-Unicode Netscape. So Opera is rather out
in left field with regard to symbol fonts --- there is no way to maintain
compatibility with both Opera and the majority of browsers in use, except
to avoid symbol fonts entirely.
--
Peace, Ra...@Coises.com
Why does Coises have a web site? Why do peanuts come with directions?
Pages at http://www.coises.com/ were updated 5 March 2002.
peter karlsson
> It is possible to characters from a symbol font in Opera by using the
> &nnnn; codes for their locations in the "Private Use Area"; try this:
Please note, however, that codepoints from the private use area should NOT
be used on the Internet. The whole idea about private use is that it is not
public...
And of course, this will only work on machines which happens to have these
fonts installed, and also probably only on the Windows platform.
peter karlsson
> Opera doesn't seem to be very good at handling symbol fonts.
Actually, the symbol fonts doesn't seem to be very good at handling Unicode.
If the fonts had had their encodings set correctly for Unicode, Opera could
use them properly, given that the correct codepoints are specified. As of
now, however, the symbol fonts delivered with Windows are not properly
encoded, so Opera can do nothing about them.
The explanation given in my mail and the thread I referenced about why this
works the way it does (which also is according to the specs) is also the
explanation why those pages with "direct-to-font" or "user-defined" encoding
will not work in Opera.
Harald Holmqvist
Regards
Harald H