When Parve is Dairy
Jay Lapidus
From a colleague:
A fascinating article recently appeared in the medical journal
"Pediatric Asthma, Allergy & Immunology." The article, "Are
Parve Products Always Milk Free?" reports a number of
allergic reactions to parve products by individuals with an
allergy to milk or dairy products. Since ex-post facto halacha
annuls amounts that are batel basheshim, it is not uncommon for
parve products to have traces of milk! Kashering of equipment leaves
enough of a trace to even cause a severe allergic reaction.
Dr. Backon?
Jay Lapidus ******************************
| | * "Nonsense is nonsense, but *
__ |__ |__ * the history of nonsense is *
| | | | | | | | \| | | * a very important science." *
|__| | __| \|/ __| |\ | * -- R' Saul Lieberman, z"l *
******************************
Art Kamlet
In article <3270299e...@news.concentric.net>,
Jay Lapidus <jay...@concentric.net> wrote:
>A fascinating article recently appeared in the medical journal
>"Pediatric Asthma, Allergy & Immunology." The article, "Are
>Parve Products Always Milk Free?" reports a number of
>allergic reactions to parve products by individuals with an
>allergy to milk or dairy products. Since ex-post facto halacha
>annuls amounts that are batel basheshim, it is not uncommon for
>parve products to have traces of milk!
I have two questions:
- Does batel basheshim (1 part in 60, or less is nullified)
apply to a milk mixture added to pareve? I know it applies
between milk and meat mixtures.
- Does batel basheshim apply to any but accidental mixtures?
(I thought if you measured out 1/61 and deliberately added
that much milk to meat, it was not to be eaten since the
mixing was not accidental. So if the manufacturing process
is known to add even small amounts then would 1/60 apply?
Shabbat Shalom,
--
Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kam...@infinet.com
bac...@vms.huji.ac.il
In article <3270299e...@news.concentric.net>, Jay Lapidus <jay...@concentric.net> writes:
> From a colleague:
>
> A fascinating article recently appeared in the medical journal
> "Pediatric Asthma, Allergy & Immunology." The article, "Are
> Parve Products Always Milk Free?" reports a number of
> allergic reactions to parve products by individuals with an
> allergy to milk or dairy products. Since ex-post facto halacha
> annuls amounts that are batel basheshim, it is not uncommon for
> enough of a trace to even cause a severe allergic reaction.
>
> Dr. Backon?
You mean the article I read last week in Annals of Allergy and Clinical
Immunology about a specific allergy to SWORDFISH ? :-) :-) :-)
Seriously, you ask a good question. I don't know the answer.
Shabbat Shalom.
Josh (who may be signing off the Internet for a month)
bac...@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
[Pesach]
Art, there is no known example of purposeful bitul in products under reliable
organizations, ie OU, OK, in recent years. Any accusation that orthodox Jews are
making non-Parve products, relying on the 1/60th is purely fictional. It should be
noted that if it had a dairy product in the ingrediants, and advertised that it was
parve, ie without meat or milk, then they would be violating several federal laws,
including falsifying the ingredient list, and also false advertising!
Batel Besheshim does apply also to parve -- but then there is an additional question
of the mixing with other mixtures that product...
>
> I have two questions:
>
> - Does batel basheshim (1 part in 60, or less is nullified)
> apply to a milk mixture added to pareve? I know it applies
> between milk and meat mixtures.
>
> - Does batel basheshim apply to any but accidental mixtures?
> (I thought if you measured out 1/61 and deliberately added
> that much milk to meat, it was not to be eaten since the
> mixing was not accidental. So if the manufacturing process
> is known to add even small amounts then would 1/60 apply?
>
> Shabbat Shalom,
> --
> Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kam...@infinet.com
--
** Pesach Lattin **
Brooklyn College, City University of New York
http://www.superlink.net/~rekia
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http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/clubs/server.htm
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E-Mail (Choose either one)
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Adam J. Schorr
> - Does batel basheshim apply to any but accidental mixtures?
> (I thought if you measured out 1/61 and deliberately added
> that much milk to meat, it was not to be eaten since the
> mixing was not accidental. So if the manufacturing process
> is known to add even small amounts then would 1/60 apply?
There is an issur "ayn mevatlim issur lechatchila" - you are not allowed to
deliberately annul the amount. I don't, however, know the answer to your
question.
BTW, people should know that not everything can be annulled at the 1:60
ration. Two things that I'm aware of are:
1) berya - I'm not sure how this is defined but I think it means a whole
creature.
2) davar seyaish matirim - something that is not prohibited in perpetuity such
as chametz on pesach.
Jay Lapidus
>In article <3270299e...@news.concentric.net>, Jay Lapidus <jay...@concentric.net> writes:
>> From a colleague:
>>
>> A fascinating article recently appeared in the medical journal
>> "Pediatric Asthma, Allergy & Immunology." The article, "Are
>> Parve Products Always Milk Free?" reports a number of
>> allergic reactions to parve products by individuals with an
>> allergy to milk or dairy products. Since ex-post facto halacha
>> annuls amounts that are batel basheshim, it is not uncommon for
>> parve products to have traces of milk! Kashering of equipment leaves
>> enough of a trace to even cause a severe allergic reaction.
From an SCJ lurker:
"Check out the research by pediatric immunologist
Dr. Hugh Sampson here at Johns Hopkins.
"Some legitimately parve foods do have dairy traces far below the
'bittul' level, but these traces are still enough to trigger allergic
reactions in some people. Dairy-allergic folks can't just rely on an
ordinary parve designation.
"There are at least three thresholds:
"safe/allergic-reaction, parve/milchig, 'non-dairy'/'dairy.'"
Another colleague noted that all of the above is all the more reason
for the designation "Parve DE." "DE" stands for "dairy equipment."
BTW, several weeks ago, I wrote about "mountain trout" and that it is
not kosher. Just to set the record straight, as far as my food
science expert knows, "mountain trout" is not an officially designated
species, and may not be related to trout at all. A kosher fish monger
did lecture a seminar of rabbis about so-called "mountain trout,"
which lacks scales. When fed the pigment astaxanthin, the meat of this
fish can be made to resemble lox.
Shalom,
Jay Lapidus
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:17:47 GMT, Jay Lapidus wrote:
>From an SCJ lurker:
>
>"Check out the research by pediatric immunologist
>Dr. Hugh Sampson here at Johns Hopkins.
>
>"Some legitimately parve foods do have dairy traces far below the
>'bittul' level, but these traces are still enough to trigger allergic
>reactions in some people. Dairy-allergic folks can't just rely on an
>ordinary parve designation.
>
>"There are at least three thresholds:
>
>"safe/allergic-reaction, parve/milchig, 'non-dairy'/'dairy.'"
>
>Another colleague noted that all of the above is all the more reason
>for the designation "Parve DE." "DE" stands for "dairy equipment."
Dr. Joe Regenstein of Kashrus Magazine wrote the following to me:
Hi! We have been dealing with the allergy issue for some time now and
some of the agencies are aware of the problem, particularly when then
accept the 1/60 rule after the fact to nullify material with respect
to their also being allergens. I believe a few have stopped permitting
it. We've written regularly about it in Kashrus Magazine.
However, the word Pareve and DE have different meanings. Pareve means
that the equipment has been kashered, while DE means that the
equipment is still dairy even if the product is Pareve. Thus, it can
be used on dairy dishes immediately after a meat meal. Many
supervisions however do not use the DE and in that case the product is
Dairy. Also the OU has stopped the previously used procedure for
kashering chocolate because of concern for the residual dairy that may
"endanger human life."
mos...@vms.huji.ac.il
This is a very vital topic. I personally know of a case of a girl who
was very allergic to any milk. While in America, she had some "parve"
chocalate with one of the most "prestigious" hechsherim. She felt an
attack coming after eating it, ran to her breathing-aid machine,
didn't make it fast enough and _died_.
Halivay I'll be able to tell happier stories in the future.
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
(posted & mailed)