Apocalypses and Exegesis...
Michael G Schwern
> Apocalypses and Exegesis are not an 'official' specification for Perl6,
> I mean, they are subject to change. Is there any idea when will we have
> a freeze on the syntax and features for perl6?
Its scheduled to occur shortly following Hell. ;)
--
Michael G Schwern sch...@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
WOOHOO! I'm going to Disneyland!
http://www.goats.com/archive/980805.html
Alberto Manuel Brandão simões
Apocalypses and Exegesis are not an 'official' specification for Perl6,
I mean, they are subject to change. Is there any idea when will we have
a freeze on the syntax and features for perl6?
Thanks,
Alberto
Attriel
> I mean, they are subject to change. Is there any idea when will we have
> a freeze on the syntax and features for perl6?
Since the A/E gig is where the design team is getting a handle on what it
is they want to be doing and how (and then trying to explain it to the
rest of us using small words :), I think they won't freeze anything until
they're much further along on the series
OTOH, I think they aren't planning to make sweeping changes to whats there
already and most of it can be considered 'slushy', which may not be as
good as frozen, but it's closer :o
That's my take on it, of course; I could be entirely wrong, too
--attriel
Austin Hastings
of development for perl7.
=Austin
--- Alberto Manuel Brandão_Simões <al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt>
wrote:
Dan Sugalski
Sometime after perl 5's syntax and features freeze, I expect. When *that*
happens is anyone's guess. :)
More seriously, things will get less mutable as the implementation
progresses, and I expect as we come up to a beta release things will be
pretty stable, barring changes because things are unimplementable or
problematic. That should happen over the next 6-12 months, time willing.
Dan
Alberto Manuel Brandão simões
Larry). I am thinking on a Perl 6 book in portuguese (maybe only a
tutorial... but who knows). But that means I must write something which
will work :-)
Of course to write it will take many time, which can give Larry time to
write at least one more Apocalypse :)
Cheers,
Alberto
Simon Cozens
> The question is simple, and Dan can have the same problem (or him or
> Larry). I am thinking on a Perl 6 book in portuguese (maybe only a
> tutorial... but who knows). But that means I must write something which
> will work :-)
Just a hint: don't try writing it and revising it as the language changes.
I wrote a Perl 6 chapter for a book in December and it is now almost unusable
due to the pace of change.
--
Dames lie about anything - just for practice. -Raymond Chandler
Alberto Manuel Brandão simões
> al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt (Alberto Manuel Brandão simões) writes:
> > The question is simple, and Dan can have the same problem (or him or
> > Larry). I am thinking on a Perl 6 book in portuguese (maybe only a
> > tutorial... but who knows). But that means I must write something which
> > will work :-)
>
> Just a hint: don't try writing it and revising it as the language changes.
> I wrote a Perl 6 chapter for a book in December and it is now almost unusable
> due to the pace of change.
Yes. That's why I'm asking :-) I can start looking to apocalypses and
exegesis to have an idea of the structure and content, but not really
write them. I would need a running prototype, too. And that's more
difficult to find :)
Jonathan Scott Duff
Well, you can always find prototypical pieces in perl 5. For instance,
Perl6::Classes, Perl6::Currying, Perl6::Rules, etc. (note, you may have
to pull that last one out of Damian's head :-)
But it looks to me like most of the major syntactic elements are
fairly stable. So you should be able to pull stuff out of the
Apocalypses and Exegeses and at least be within a few degrees of
accuracy.
Besides you could always provide online updates to your book as the
language changes. The first (dead tree) edition would be the rough cut,
and later editions would be closer to reality as the language stablizes.
-Scott
--
Jonathan Scott Duff
du...@cbi.tamucc.edu
Iain Truskett
[...]
> Besides you could always provide online updates to your book as the
> language changes. The first (dead tree) edition would be the rough
> cut, and later editions would be closer to reality as the language
> stablizes.
Much like "Perl 6 Essentials" then?
I must say that its chapter 4 is the clearest look at the perl 6 syntax
(as it was at the time of writing) that I've seen yet.
cheers,
--
Iain.
Alberto Manuel Brandão simões
Yeah. I would like to read it. But as I think syntax will change, I'm
not thinking on buying it.. ;-/
>
>
> cheers,
Jonathan Scott Duff
> * Jonathan Scott Duff (du...@cbi.tamucc.edu) [15 Aug 2003 00:16]:
>
> [...]
> > Besides you could always provide online updates to your book as the
> > language changes. The first (dead tree) edition would be the rough
> > cut, and later editions would be closer to reality as the language
> > stablizes.
>
> Much like "Perl 6 Essentials" then?
Well, yeah. But in portugese. Maybe he should just try to translate
that book instead of writing his own. Or create a exegesis-style
tutorial that somehow compliments P6E (having not read the book
myself, I don't know if this would be appropriate/possible)
> I must say that its chapter 4 is the clearest look at the perl 6 syntax
> (as it was at the time of writing) that I've seen yet.
/me makes *another* mental note to get the book.
Iain Truskett
> On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 15:19, Iain Truskett wrote:
> > Much like "Perl 6 Essentials" then?
> >
> > I must say that its chapter 4 is the clearest look at
> > the perl 6 syntax (as it was at the time of writing)
> > that I've seen yet.
> Yeah. I would like to read it. But as I think syntax will
> change, I'm not thinking on buying it.. ;-/
Safari. http://safari.oreilly.com/0596004990
Of course, you need a Safari subscription, but they quite
useful things.
I imagine purchasing it physical copies would be more common
on p6-internals as over half the book is Parrot and related
goodness.
cheers,
--
Iain.
Michael Lazzaro
On Thursday, August 14, 2003, at 07:00 AM, Alberto Manuel Brandão
I add a hearty "Amen" to Simon's advice.
In my own opinion -- which is worth approximately what you paid for it
:-) -- things are probably pretty slushy until A12/E12 "Objects" comes
out. AFAIK, that's due to be the next official A/E. I expect that
_after_ that one, things will solidify rather rapidly; but be wary of
doing too much before that, IMHO.
The A12/E12 problem is that the core concepts and syntax related to
objects and types have wide repercussions on the syntax of everything
else -- control structures, subroutines, operators, etc. etc. etc.
Since *everything* can be described as being an operation upon a set of
objects/types (and, after all, even csubs/subs/ops are themselves
"objects", in the larger sense) until those object/type concepts are
nailed down *quite* firmly, I would be a little wary of counting on the
stability of anything else.
We've seen several examples already of things changing -- for the
better! -- long after the A&Es for them have come out. I confidently
prophesize at least one more big, scary round of that.
My personal advice is to wait until E12 comes out and is polished, and
then go whole-hog. I wouldn't expect any major changes to happen after
that, because the rest of the A&Es are less far-flung in scope.
MikeL
jefft3
>
> out. AFAIK, that's due to be the next official A/E. I expect that
ummmm. just de-lurking here for a moment as i've been totally nagged
by this
for a while (to the extent i've wondered if it is in the category of
'running
joke'): where is any sort of 'roadmap' for the A\d+\/E\d+ series laid
out ?
i've seen lots of references implying the existence of such a
document, but have yet to to discover the thing itself....
before relurking, let me just say, i'm a big perl fan, still busy
putting perl 5 goodies into personal practice, but also am very much
looking forward to the new powerful parts promised with perl 6. thank
you perl hackers!
*poof*
Piers Cawley
I think the chapter on the Perl design philosophy is definitely worth
the reading of. I just wish the book had wider margins so I can make
notes as things change. (Dan's already made, and signed a correction
on page 93 for me :)
Nicholas Clark
On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 01:05:52AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
> I think the chapter on the Perl design philosophy is definitely worth
> the reading of. I just wish the book had wider margins so I can make
Alan Burlison has the scoop on an entire book on the design philosophy:
http://bleaklow.com/blog/archive/000018.html
(If you're wondering who he is, he did a lot of
unsung work in cleaning up many many memory leaks in 5.6. He's also to
thank for the search.cpan.org hardware:
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/25/2244227
)
Nicholas Clark
Joseph Ryan
>On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 03:00:54PM +0100, Alberto Manuel Brand?o Sim?es wrote:
>
>
>>On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 14:49, Simon Cozens wrote:
>>
>>
>>>al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt (Alberto Manuel Brandão simões) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The question is simple, and Dan can have the same problem (or him or
>>>>Larry). I am thinking on a Perl 6 book in portuguese (maybe only a
>>>>tutorial... but who knows). But that means I must write something which
>>>>will work :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Just a hint: don't try writing it and revising it as the language changes.
>>>I wrote a Perl 6 chapter for a book in December and it is now almost unusable
>>>due to the pace of change.
>>>
>>>
>>Yes. That's why I'm asking :-) I can start looking to apocalypses and
>>exegesis to have an idea of the structure and content, but not really
>>write them. I would need a running prototype, too. And that's more
>>difficult to find :)
>>
>>
>
>Well, you can always find prototypical pieces in perl 5. For instance,
>Perl6::Classes, Perl6::Currying, Perl6::Rules, etc. (note, you may have
>to pull that last one out of Damian's head :-
>
>
There's also P6C (parrot/languages/perl6), but use with caution, as its
pretty kooky.
- Joe