GNUBG and Random.org
JP White
In the windows version (020801) selecting this option results in an
error message 'This installation of GNUBG was compiled without support
for sockets needed for fetching random numbers from <www.random.org>'.
Is this likely to be supported in the windows version anytime soon?
JP
--
JP White
mailto:jpwh...@bellsouth.net
Back4U2 BBL
http://mini.net/tcl/3089.html
It allows you to get a list of random rolls from random.org, using TCL.
But:
You will need TCL for Windows (though: that is freeware)
or....
You could change to Linux?
(look who's talking.... using windows since 1986)
Louis Nardy Pillards
"JP White" <jpwh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3D4D1653...@bellsouth.net...
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Jørn Thyssen
> I see that there is an option for getting dice rolls from random.org
>
> In the windows version (020801) selecting this option results in an
> error message 'This installation of GNUBG was compiled without support
> for sockets needed for fetching random numbers from <www.random.org>'.
>
> Is this likely to be supported in the windows version anytime soon?
No, this will not be supported anytime soon...
...unless someone volunteers to port that particular part of the code to
winsocks. It's quite simple code: connect to www.random.org port 80,
request the URL
<http://www.random.org/cgi-bin/randnum?num=500&min=0&max=5&col=1>, and
parse the resulting output.
If you're interested in doing this, please write to
bug-gnubg(at)gnu(dot)org.
Jørn
Murat Kalinyaprak
LostVegan wrote p5t6lu8ucdifjd4nf...@4ax.com
> On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 Murat Kalinyaprak wrote:
>>Since I believe it's rigged, there is no reason for me to be
>>on FIBS and no way to enjoy playing there anyway... :(
> Here are a couple of web sites which seem to have a
> special message just for you:
Hah hahh.. I really got a good laugh out of this one. I have to
admit that I even played it a few times and saved it... :))
Thanks but what did that have to do with our subject here...?
I know very well that my impact on this group and on bg in a
world-wide scale will be minimal. But that's ok. Throughout
human history, the typical misery has been that just a few
smart bastards took advantage of hordes of dumb asses...
How much impact did the great philosophers and scientists
have on humanity in general...? Almost none... :((
Except that their noble ideas and inventions have been adopted,
adapted and used for all kinds of evil purposes by the scum eaters
created by God...
Otherwise how can we explain that we still have mother fuckers,
child molesters, shit eaters, robbers, gamblers, mass-murderers
and all that...? By mass murderers I don't mean local-sickos who
gun down a few dozen people in a Post Office or a McDonald...
I mean people capable of nearly eradicating native populations
of some continents, gassing people or dropping atomic bombs
to not just kill any and all humans from suckling babies to ninety
year olds, but also to kill every fucking tree, brush, grass or every
cow, dog, cat, rat, flea on an island...
We can't blame all this on a "big-bang" theory, can we...? No
sir... I do belieeeeve...!! Amen...
The God-fearing children and grand-children of those bastards
are surely not less capable of such evil... So, if and when they
settle for only shit eating, snorting drugs, gambling and rigging
bg bots or servers, we should really be grateful...
So, please, eat as much scum as you wish, rig as many bots
or servers as you wish, etc. but don't gas Jews or drop atomic
bombs on Japs or on "dirt-eating" (i.e. better than "shit-eating")
poor Muslim people of Afganistan, Iraq, etc...
Proving that a certain bot or a bg server is rigged seems to be
a child's-play in comparison to trying to heal the sick bastards. :((
Especially when they may be created by a sick God while I (and
hopefully a few more of us) may be not...!
MK
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Murat Kalinyaprak
Bob Ebbeler wrote ppZ49.69683$D36.68471@rwcrnsc53
> I'm proud to say that I recognized you instantly, and dimed
> you immediately to Patti.
I am proud of you also, "Bob"...!! :))
> IMHO, you are one of the 2 most colossal assholes on the
> internet (coincidentally, Patti also banned the other asshole
> from FIBS about 5 months ago ).
Your language here isn't much different than the shoutings I
withessed on FIBS; and FIBS is surely a "scum-pit" for if no
other reason than harboring people like you for so long...
When I hear "FIBS", I hear "Andreas, Patti, Kit Wooolsy and
NIHILIST"... For me, this is what FIBS is made of... :(( Puke!
> The reason we have never played is that you have always
> proudly proclaimed yourself as a dropper, and I can't imagine
> wasting my time playing someone who has no intention of
> finishing a losing match.
First of all, you (or Patti or any other one of "you") only knew
who I was when I didn't bother to hide it... At any given time,
I have a few AOL CD's in my trash can offering 1000 hours
free for 45 days... I can log on to FIBS using one of those at
any time and slap your dumb ass around a few, but I will bet
in front of public spectators that you won't accept an invitation
from me even when you don't know that I am me... :))
If you or anybody else thinks that there isn't a good reason
why I call FIBS a "scum-pit", you/they better think again...
> Your greatest sin, though, is that you are BORING ! You no
> longer have even miniscule value as comic relief. Perhaps
> your next project can be to put your expertise as a dropper
> to use by offering your analysis of all the DROPFUL matches
> you've accumulated over the years.
I never had anything to hide and FIBS' credibility is surely much
higher than mine... So, what I have done in the past and what I'm
doing now is to challenge FIBS to post the "accumulated results"
of the all the matches that I played to the end or that I dropped...
I have already proven to myself and perhaps to a handful of others
at least twice already and under the *same* nick-name of "jeepsy"
(not to mention the smaller experiments under dozens of other
various nick-names)...
If you would like, I can log on to FIBS tomorrow from a different
server, under a different nick-name (which I guarantee that you
won't recognize:)) and shove it up your asses all over again...
But after so many times, the same old shit isn't even fun anymore. :((
gammonus
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
> Bob Ebbeler wrote ppZ49.69683$D36.68471@rwcrnsc53
>
> > I'm proud to say that I recognized you instantly, and dimed
> > you immediately to Patti.
>
> I am proud of you also, "Bob"...!! :))
>
> > IMHO, you are one of the 2 most colossal assholes on the
> > internet (coincidentally, Patti also banned the other asshole
> > from FIBS about 5 months ago ).
I can't say that I have agreed with NIHILIST all the time, but the
above statement appears to be absolutely correct (at least the part
about Murat - I have had little exposure to the other individual).
> Your language here isn't much different than the shoutings I
> withessed on FIBS; and FIBS is surely a "scum-pit" for if no
> other reason than harboring people like you for so long...
This makes me laugh. Murat, talking about someone's "language" when
he himself constantly posts obscenity-laced drivel (see other messages
in this very thread).
> When I hear "FIBS", I hear "Andreas, Patti, Kit Wooolsy and
> NIHILIST"... For me, this is what FIBS is made of... :(( Puke!
>
> > The reason we have never played is that you have always
> > proudly proclaimed yourself as a dropper, and I can't imagine
> > wasting my time playing someone who has no intention of
> > finishing a losing match.
Seems reasonable.
> First of all, you (or Patti or any other one of "you") only knew
> who I was when I didn't bother to hide it... At any given time,
> I have a few AOL CD's in my trash can offering 1000 hours
> free for 45 days... I can log on to FIBS using one of those at
> any time and slap your dumb ass around a few, but I will bet
> in front of public spectators that you won't accept an invitation
> from me even when you don't know that I am me... :))
I can't speak to this, since NIHILIST has never accepted an invitation
from me, either. Maybe you can get NIHILIST to play you, Murat, if
you:
1. Log on using a different server.
2. Lose some matches to drop your rating to a sufficiently low
number.
3. STFU for the duration of your stay on FIBS.
> If you or anybody else thinks that there isn't a good reason
> why I call FIBS a "scum-pit", you/they better think again...
>
> > Your greatest sin, though, is that you are BORING ! You no
THAT'S IT! I have been trying to put my finger on why Murat has been
bothering me so much lately, and the above statement is the answer.
For a while, his posts were interesting to me since they were novel.
But the same ranting time and time again has really gotten stale.
Thanks, NIHILIST. I can now sleep at night.
> > longer have even miniscule value as comic relief. Perhaps
> > your next project can be to put your expertise as a dropper
> > to use by offering your analysis of all the DROPFUL matches
> > you've accumulated over the years.
>
> I never had anything to hide and FIBS' credibility is surely much
> higher than mine... So, what I have done in the past and what I'm
> doing now is to challenge FIBS to post the "accumulated results"
> of the all the matches that I played to the end or that I dropped...
>
> I have already proven to myself and perhaps to a handful of others
> at least twice already and under the *same* nick-name of "jeepsy"
> (not to mention the smaller experiments under dozens of other
> various nick-names)...
>
> If you would like, I can log on to FIBS tomorrow from a different
> server, under a different nick-name (which I guarantee that you
> won't recognize:)) and shove it up your asses all over again...
>
> But after so many times, the same old shit isn't even fun anymore. :((
This last sentence has got to be the one thing that has ever sprung
from Murat's keyboard with which I actually agree.
>
> MK
Gregg Cattanach
does it the same way):
It takes the equity of the 36 positions reached from the current position,
(based on moving each of the 36 rolls "correctly"), and averages those 36
numbers. It then takes the equity reached from the roll actually rolled,
and the amount this is above or below the average is how lucky or unlucky
that roll was. It does this for every roll of the game for both players
(all of this is done at 1-ply). Also, it doesn't matter how the player
actually moved the checkers, this calculation is done based on its estimate
of what the best play is for all 36 rolls and the one actually rolled.
Snowie adds up all the pluses and minuses for both players and then has a
total luck factor for each game and the entire match. GnuBG goes a little
bit further and keeps it separated with all of the luck factors for my rolls
being added up and a second number for all of the opponent's rolls.
The predictive value of this number in a match is pretty interesting, as the
correlation of who had the positive luck factor and who won the match is
dramatically better than the correlation of who had less errors vs. who won.
This isn't a defect in the error calculation, more it just demonstrates that
it is far better to be lucky than good. Also, when two players are very
evenly matched their respective error rates may only differ by 1.0 to 2.0
mppm (millipoints per move), But luck factors are routinely in the range of
5.0 to 10.0 or more mppm in many matches. So luck swamps skill a good deal
of the time.
Also, the luck factor may not predict the result of the match as it isn't
taking the cube level into play, but looking at each game as equivalent to a
money game. So being lucky in one game with the cube on 8, but your
opponent being lucky in 4 other games that ended in a double/pass, you may
show a negative total luck factor but won the match with the 8 cube.
Gregg
"Murat Kalinyaprak" <mu...@compuplus.net> wrote in message
news:3d53...@post.newsfeed.com...
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
> I'm one of the people who believe that infinitessimal
> calculations about odds, winning chances, doubling
> windows, etc. are absurd...
>
> I deem those as just a load of bullshit that sterilizes,
> mechanizes the game for not only at a profit less than
> any promised returns but also at the expense of any
> human elements like creativity, spontaneity, etc...
>
> Even if a human being could live long enough to play
> several billions of steril games, another human being
> who could live as long to play as many games could
> still come ahead for being less sterile, less robotical,
> more intelligent, more creative, etc...
>
> These "boring" :) generalizations were only mentioned
> to underline the fact that I don't pay special attention to
> such "*precise bullshit*"... So now, let me get to the point.
>
> From my vague understanding, I gather that bots figure
> out luck factors by calculating the difference of equity
> between two rolls...?
>
> If so, I would suggest that this is terribly inadequate... :(
>
> In my long experiments in guessing what some scums
> of bots would roll and/or do ahead of time, I came to
> realize that I was expressing my predictions more and
> more as "mini-scenarios" involving a series of 3 to 5
> rolls instead of a single devestating roll here and there...
>
> I have, I do and I will bet progressively against any sick
> bastard or any dumb ass on certain bg servers and bg
> bots as they exist today...!!
>
> That is, if I bet $1, $10 and $100 for the first 3 rolls of a
> 5-roll bet and if they come true, you can then bet your
> dumb and/or sick asses that I will gladly bet $1,000 and
> $10,000 dollars on the next 2 rolls respectively...
>
> I hope you can get your head out of your ass, open your
> ears and hear this...!
>
> If you didn't hear or agree with this, it's ok... Now, let's go
> back to the subject of how bots calculate "luck"...
>
> What if a cheating scum of a bot (or a cheating scum of
> a bg server for that matter) doesn't blatently do it in one
> step but spreads it out over 2, 3, 4 or more rolls...? Have
> any of you ass-kissers considered this possibility...???
>
> Probably not, because most of you may be just a herd of
> *sheep* conditioned to buy books, subscribe to web sites,
> take on-line lessons, follow others and bleat forever...
>
> The luck factor may seem equal or negligible for a single
> roll but may *compound*!! to a decisive amount in two or
> more rolls...!!
>
> I gather that the "fish", "dung", "scum", et. al. can do 1-ply,
> 2-ply, 3-ply look-aheads or whatever else bullshit...??
>
> How about doing a 1-ply, 2-ply, 3-ply "luck factor"...??
>
> I don't think visitors from planet Moro can shove up their
> asses any more than this much in a single day... So, see
> you tomorow... :)))
Back4U2 BBL
and yet you get a marvelous reply from Greg.
ty Greg.
Louis Nardy
Murat Kalinyaprak
gammonus wrote 68f59752.02081...@posting.google.com
> Murat Kalinyaprak wrote 3d57...@post.newsfeed.com
>> Bob Ebbeler wrote ppZ49.69683$D36.68471@rwcrnsc53
>>> IMHO, you are one of the 2 most colossal assholes on the
>>> internet (coincidentally, Patti also banned the other asshole
>>> from FIBS about 5 months ago ).
> I can't say that I have agreed with NIHILIST all the time, but the
> above statement appears to be absolutely correct (at least the
> part about Murat....
Let me take a shot at creative writing tonight... :))
The "-ish" suffix in English adds a meaning of "-like". For example:
child-ish = child-like, blue-ish = blue-like, Turk-ish = Turk-like, etc...
When speaking of languages, your speaking Turkish (i.e. speaking
like a Turk), for example, will not necessarily make you a Turk...
Similarly, my speaking "assholish" (i.e. speaking like an asshole)
here doesn't necessarily make me an "asshole"...
There are assholes by birth, who speak assholish as their mother
tongue and then there are people who speak assholish as a second
language...
My speaking assholish is not even an act of retaliating or "fighting
fire with fire"... It's merely and attempt to communicate...
Most native assholes and their likes are too dumb to speak other
languages than their own. So multi-lingual people like me :)) try to
accommodate them by speaking assholish, bastardish, etc. as
needed...
It looks like you understand assholish and can speak it without an
accent also... Are you a native by chance...??
>> Your language here isn't much different than the shoutings I
>> withessed on FIBS; and FIBS is surely a "scum-pit" for if no
>> other reason than harboring people like you for so long...
> This makes me laugh. Murat, talking about someone's "language"
> when he himself constantly posts obscenity-laced drivel (see other
> messages in this very thread).
I'm a multi-lingual psychologist whos is conducting experiments... :))
And, btw, there are more games than just backgammon played in
this group and on some backgammon servers, etc... Unfortunately
they are too private to include irrelevant people (like you??)... :((
You can't even participate as a spectator. So, just try to make do
with the results posted here periodically...
>> First of all, you (or Patti or any other one of "you") only knew
>> who I was when I didn't bother to hide it... At any given time,
>> I have a few AOL CD's in my trash can offering 1000 hours
>> free for 45 days... I can log on to FIBS using one of those at
>> any time and slap your dumb ass around a few, but I will bet
>> in front of public spectators that you won't accept an invitation
>> from me even when you don't know that I am me... :))
> I can't speak to this, since NIHILIST has never accepted an
> invitation from me, either. Maybe you can get NIHILIST to
> play you, Murat, if you:
> 1. Log on using a different server.
> 2. Lose some matches to drop your rating to a sufficiently low
> number.
> 3. STFU for the duration of your stay on FIBS.
I can see you someday speaking fluent Muratish... :)) You sure
seem to have the potential...
Murat Kalinyaprak
Gregg C. wrote zYc69.1318$g_.16...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com
> Here is how Snowie calculates the luck factor, (and I'm pretty sure GnuBG
> does it the same way):
Gregg, thanks for your detailed explanations. I was assuming that those
bots were comparing the "current" gain or loss of equity against an all
time average (i.e. "even", "zero":))...
Comparing it to the most or least gain of equity possible in any given
position should be more accurate at least in the short term (i.e. may
not be significantly more or less accurate after 4 billion matches?)...
As much as I appreciate your taking this subject seriously and posting
this apparently valuable information, I have to stick to my position that
it is inadequate and meaningless...
Let me explain it this way: let's say that the range of maximum/minimum
equity change in a given roll is +10 to -10...
But after a certain roll, no matter what you roll next, you may never reach
+10, +8 or +6... Or you may never go below -1, -3 or -5, etc...
Please make an effort to understand this...
And the worst thing is that this effect is accumulative. After a couple of
mildly unlucky rolls, no further rolls may look unlucky anymore because
you may be already in too bad of a position for the gods of luck to save
you...
> The predictive value of this number in a match is pretty interesting, as
> the correlation of who had the positive luck factor and who won the
> match is dramatically better than the correlation of who had less errors
> vs. who won. This isn't a defect in the error calculation, more it just
> demonstrates that it is far better to be lucky than good.
This comes as very interesting to me but not quite as a big surprise...
Obviously I believe that gnudung, flibs, etc. are rigged pieces of shit
and after literally thousands of games it becomes a childs-play to
recognize their patterns. But although this is what led me to raise this
subject of calculating luck factor, I'm willing to isolate it and discuss it
apart from certain bots or servers cheating because it's an interesting
and worthy subject in itself...
> So being lucky in one game with the cube on 8, but your opponent
> being lucky in 4 other games that ended in a double/pass, you may
> show a negative total luck factor but won the match with the 8 cube.
Heh heh... Now this sounds like something I really really would be
interested in discussing... :)) Would you care to elaborate any more
on this... I promise, I will try my best at it as well...
Thanks...
Murat Kalinyaprak
Back4U2 wrote 3d59c2a0$0$206$ba62...@news.skynet.be
> Wrong premisses, wrong deduction....
> and yet you get a marvelous reply from Greg.
> ty Greg.
Within the limits of my intellect and knowledge, I had given my
precious time and had made an effort to communicate a point
in a 50+ line article...
Similarly, Gregg must have valued the subject itself (if not me
personally) to post an equally lengthy and efforty (I just coined
this word:)) article...
And what have you contributed to the subject beyond reacting
to me in meaningless general terms and kissing Gregg's ass
in a 2.5-line short posting...??
If your answers will be "nothing" then I will tell you that I have
more respect for assholes than ass-kissers...
Frank Mazza
Did you write your nice piece explaining how the bot's calculate luck
above Murat's rantings to show the difference in writing style between
an intelligent sane person and a scatalogically inclined obssessive
neurotic?
Frank
Back4U2 BBL
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
> Back4U2 wrote 3d59c2a0$0$206$ba62...@news.skynet.be
>
> > Wrong premisses, wrong deduction....
> > and yet you get a marvelous reply from Greg.
> > ty Greg.
>
> Within the limits of my intellect and knowledge, I had given my
> precious time and had made an effort to communicate a point
> in a 50+ line article...
> And what have you contributed to the subject beyond reacting
> to me in meaningless general terms and kissing Gregg's ass
> in a 2.5-line short posting...??
>
> If your answers will be "nothing" then I will tell you that I have
> more respect for assholes than ass-kissers...
While teaching at RDC Belgium, I used to say:
"Er bestaan geen domme vragen,
alleen maar domme antwoorden...
en daar ben ik goed in."
If I extrapolate this to your postings,
I have to apologize.
Louis Nardy
> MK
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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>
gammonus
I wouldn't have expected any less. Unfortunately it doesn't appear
that this attempt is any better than the countless others.
> The "-ish" suffix in English adds a meaning of "-like". For example:
> child-ish = child-like, blue-ish = blue-like, Turk-ish = Turk-like, etc...
>
> When speaking of languages, your speaking Turkish (i.e. speaking
> like a Turk), for example, will not necessarily make you a Turk...
>
> Similarly, my speaking "assholish" (i.e. speaking like an asshole)
> here doesn't necessarily make me an "asshole"...
"Assholish"? Murat, this line of "thought" is a moronic stretch -
even for you. Where I come from, if it looks like a duck and quacks
like a duck, chances are pretty good it's a duck. And by the way,
before you start to insult where I come from - you have no idea where
that is and how little any of us "natives" care about what you think
anyway.
> There are assholes by birth, who speak assholish as their mother
> tongue and then there are people who speak assholish as a second
> language...
*yawn*
> My speaking assholish is not even an act of retaliating or "fighting
> fire with fire"... It's merely and attempt to communicate...
...and a poor one, at that.
> Most native assholes and their likes are too dumb to speak other
> languages than their own. So multi-lingual people like me :)) try to
> accommodate them by speaking assholish, bastardish, etc. as
> needed...
>
> It looks like you understand assholish and can speak it without an
> accent also... Are you a native by chance...??
So what the above diatribe amounts to is a less efficient version of
"I know you are, but what am I?". Really, you could have done this
more succinctly and wasted much less bandwidth...
> I'm a multi-lingual psychologist whos is conducting experiments... :))
Call yourself whatever you want, the rest of us do.
> And, btw, there are more games than just backgammon played in
> this group and on some backgammon servers, etc... Unfortunately
> they are too private to include irrelevant people (like you??)... :((
> You can't even participate as a spectator. So, just try to make do
> with the results posted here periodically...
Are you telling me I'm "irrelevant" in your game of "Let's see how
many people I can goad into responding to my pointless posts by
insulting as many people as I can and acting like a pompous ass (or
maybe I should say acting pompous assish)"? Why Murat, I'm one of the
only people responding to you anymore! I'd say that makes me far from
"irrelevant".
> I can see you someday speaking fluent Muratish... :)) You sure
> seem to have the potential...
I can't tell you how little I care what you think of my potential.
It's about as little as I care about your opinions in regard to
doubling theory, bots, FIBS, etc.
I'd say this should be the end of this thread, but I know you won't be
able to let someone else get the last word.
Kim
hey murat............. do us all a favor and SHUT THE FUCK UP
news:<3d57...@post.newsfeed.com>...
Murat Kalinyaprak
Frank Mazza wrote ve5llu0pbn6prqd1g...@4ax.com
> Gregg, Did you write your nice piece explaining how the bot's
> calculate luck above Murat's rantings to show the difference in
> writing style between an intelligent sane person and a
> scatalogically inclined obssessive neurotic?
If Gregg or you think we are competing in a popularity contest
here, that's fine but I don't think so...
In many forums I participated in, the subject of "style vs. content"
has also been debated quite often...
Polite style may be nice but doesn't subtstitute for content... We
are not debating here for your or my own benefit or satisfaction
but for the benefit of something called "backgammon"...
Gregg's final observations about luck over skill were interesting
and, given a large number of matches, we could perhaps come
to the same conclusion with much more primitive calculations...
After 4 billion matches we may observe that simply the total value
of dice rolls for each side may coincide with which side is winning
or losing...
In that case (i.e. "in the long run") that may just mean that you may
as well stuff those intricate luck factor calculations up your dumb
asses...
But my point was that those extra-terrestrially sophisticated luck
factor calculations were not good enough for the short run...
The compounded effect of a series of a few mildly lucky rolls may
be disproportionately greater than just the simple accumulation of
whatever luck factors calculated based the same rolls individually...
Gregg only explained in detail how some bots actually calculate
luck factor in response to my oversimplisticly referring to the same
thing.
Some people may prefer to kiss clean shaved asses vs. hairy ones
and that's their choice but the fact is that a 1-ply luck factor analysis
next to a 3-ply checker play analysis is grossly inadequate...!!!
One reason for the language I use here is to give a way out for the
dumb asses who can't address the issue anyway... And until I see
somebody who is intelligent and knowledgeable enough to rise
above the language I use here and to address the issue at hand, I
must sadly conclude that the generel readership of this newsgroup
are brainless dumb ass-kissers (who even pay money to the ones
charging money to have their asses kissed)...
I guess the ancient Chinese philosophers were right that nobody
want to kiss a free hairy ass... Sigh... :((
Murat Kalinyaprak
Kim wrote b6609a77.02081...@posting.google.com
> hey murat............. do us all a favor and SHUT THE FUCK UP
Hey Kim, can I double the favor and FUCK THE SHUT UP instead...?