retrospect to 9/11/01 (Sadness, Grief and Anger (OT))
Neal Miyake
tragedies of a year ago:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=9nl7
e902ce1%40drn.newsguy.com
sponge
SurffOhio
>Interesting to look back at our initial reactions and dialog after the
>tragedies of a year ago:
Jeez, why was I so crabby with
Steve M.? He's my pal.
Surff
Timothy B. Maddux
Neal Miyake <spo...@iav.com> wrote:
>Interesting to look back ...
Thanks Neal. Here's some other threads:
armageddon surf report
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3B9E60E4.CFF64068%40mindspring.com
OT-The New NYC Skyline (photos)
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mark-474C7B.13241712092001%40news.bellatlantic.net
unbelievable [Dave Blake tells us to go surfing.]
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=slrn9ptfcn.dsc.dblake%40popper.ucsf.edu
Google search of alt.surfing all posts for 9/11/01 (long URL):
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=50&as_drrb=b&q=group%3Aalt.surfing&btnG=Google+Search&as_mind=11&as_minm=9&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=11&as_maxm=9&as_maxy=2001
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ All your wave are belong to me!
superfly®
into an american-centric-world-event-loaded-diaper clearing house...
"Neal Miyake" <spo...@iav.com> wrote
FleK
"superfly®" <superfly@the_ghetto.com> wrote in message
news:unv4tni...@corp.supernews.com...
> Yea that was pretty sad. A bunch of american babies turned this newsgroup
> into an american-centric-world-event-loaded-diaper clearing house...
>
Remember lemming, if the mass-murder of 3100 of your countrymen stop you
from being a cold hearless bastard...the terrorists have won!
_FleK
Tim Maddux
> Yea that was pretty sad. A bunch of american babies turned this newsgroup
> into an american-centric-world-event-loaded-diaper clearing house...
Beats talking about your damn knee.
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=MPG.16085b3d3d7448ad989b93%40news.earthlink.net
Which one did we stop discussing first, and which
had more surfing content (see Jose's armageddon
surf report thread)
--
Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.-``'. "Absolute macrocosmic metaphysical truth is unalterably
.` .`~ and indisputibly on my side for all eternity and then
_.-' '._ some, you know, okay?"
superfly®
"Timothy B. Maddux" <tbma...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote
> unbelievable [Dave Blake tells us to go surfing.]
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=slrn9ptfcn.dsc.dblake%40popper.ucsf.edu
Timothy, this EC move isn't working for you... You've become just another EC
thought policeman with no hope of any surf and a government pension to look
forward to. It wouldn't surprise me if you started boogie boarding...
rodNDtube
"On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a rat's
ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
Surf content: One year ago I surfed Hurricane Erin, today I had to pass
on Hurricane Gustav :(
superfly®
> Still fresh one year later (see Neal's link below):
>
> "On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
> beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a rat's
> ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
How about we give that diaper another once over?
> Surf content: One year ago I surfed Hurricane Erin, today I had to pass
> on Hurricane Gustav :(
There you go yuppie. Hit the beach while it's flat, miss the hurricane.
rodNDtube
> "rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
> > Still fresh one year later (see Neal's link below):
> >
> > "On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
> > beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a rat's
> > ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
>
> > Surf content: One year ago I surfed Hurricane Erin, today I had to pass
> > on Hurricane Gustav :(
It bears repeating:
"On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a
rat's ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
9/11/01 Surfing Content: Lighting a candle and waving a flag! We can
surf free.
Rod Rodgers
eMail: rrod...@bcpl.net
Homepage: http://www.rodNDtube.com/
GuidoPalooza: http://www.rodndtube.com/gp/guidopalooza.html
superfly®
> It bears repeating:
>
> "On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
> beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a
> rat's ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
How about we take that diaper off and give it a thourough flogging?
It's about a year ripe! Come to dada.
> 9/11/01 Surfing Content: Lighting a candle and waving a flag! We can
> surf free.
That's right, bitch. Free speech, free ideas, freedom to dissent.
Please make a note of it!
rodNDtube
> "rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
> > It bears repeating:
> >
> > "On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
> > beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a
> > rat's ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
>
> How about we take that diaper off and give it a thourough flogging?
> It's about a year ripe!
You can be very dense and stubborn... here it is again:
"On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a
rat's ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
> > 9/11/01 Surfing Content: Lighting a candle and waving a flag! We can
> > surf free.
>
> That's right, bitch. Free speech, free ideas, freedom to dissent.
>
> Please make a note of it!
What you bring to AS threads is hardly "freedom to dissent," but it is
an exercise of free speech, although most would further qualify it as free
dribble devoid of ideas or values.
superfly®
> You can be very dense and stubborn... here it is again:
>
> "On behalf of the newsgroup: go screw another kneecap, catch a foot in a
> beartrap, and get bitten by a great white... and see if we give a
> rat's ass. And we won't mention a thing about it on AS."
OK, ok, rod. You made me do it. We are gonna go get a fresh
diaper for you. No more dirty diapers for little rodly...
Now hold still, this won't take long..........
> What you bring to AS threads is hardly "freedom to dissent," but it is
> an exercise of free speech, although most would further qualify it as free
> dribble devoid of ideas or values.
10k ppl die every day from AIDS all over the world. However I don't see
you throwing a tantrum over that on AS? The USA is not the center of the
world. If mommy and daddy wouldn't of spoiled your ass rotten, I wouldn't
have to be taking you over my knee and changing your diapers on AS.
But there is nothing we can do about that now. You are just gonna have
to put up with free speech, freedom to dissent until you and the rest of
your bourgeois yuppie class decide that's not what's in the best interest
of the good old USA anymore...
Until then, you're gonna be my little usenet bitch.
driftwood®
in the sandbox. I guess this is comedy relief on such a somber day.
"superflyŽ" wrote:
> "rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
rodNDtube
> > "rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
>
> > What you bring to AS threads is hardly "freedom to dissent," but it is
> > an exercise of free speech, although most would further qualify it as free
> > dribble devoid of ideas or values.
>
> 10k ppl die every day from AIDS all over the world. However I don't see
> you throwing a tantrum over that on AS?
You don't find me throwing a tantrum about much, less over all of AS.
Most would agree that you hold that trophy. It often appears you are
throwing a tantrum on virtually each and every thread.
> The USA is not the center of the world.
Nice geography lesson. I agree, both on a technical and rhetorical
basis. But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
murder. You constantly riducle others' emotional reactions to death and
injury -- what is your point other than to draw attention to yourself?
> But there is nothing we can do about that now. You are just gonna have
> to put up with free speech, freedom to dissent until you and the rest of
> your bourgeois yuppie class decide that's not what's in the best interest
> of the good old USA anymore...
What you provide to AS is not an exercise in freedom to dissent... it's
mostly an exercise to draw attention to yourself and to be disruptive.
Why not bring back the Sandman? Have your positive creative juices run
dry?
> Until then, you're gonna be my little usenet bitch.
I hardly think so. (You call that "dissent?")
CRUEL STEPFATHER
Any body remember 12/7/41? What did they call Terrorists {Arabs}
before they dreamed up the name terrorist? Please reply.
stepfather #1
driftwood®
superfly®
> Nice geography lesson. I agree, both on a technical and rhetorical
> basis. But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
> world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
> murder. You constantly riducle others' emotional reactions to death and
> injury -- what is your point other than to draw attention to yourself?
Yes, look at me! My name is superfly®! That's spelled S U P E R fly!
superfly®, bitch!
I am a 10 y/o schoolgirl from Kansas with freckles and pony tails.
I want to be famous like *Rod Rodgers*!
Nobody would even really know my real name if this newsgroup wasn't
chalk full of ppl who have absolutely nothing better to do than track down
their usenet demons... fuckin sick.
> I hardly think so. (You call that "dissent?")
You are my puppy dog, babe. Now come on over here to the couch and brimg
daddy his slippers... heel girl! That's it! Good girl! Sit! Laydown! Getup! Jump
in circles! Chase your tail! Bark! Sing! Dance! WOOF!
Your pose...
rodNDtube
> Nice way to kill a thread. Heh... two landlubbers fighting like little kids
> in the sandbox. I guess this is comedy relief on such a somber day.
You're half-right, but go back and read the thread. I also see you are
exercising your freedom of speech by tossing out manly words
like "landlubbers." Now see... you are in the sandbox ;) Next time,
consider just replying to your northern hero with the simple, but elegant
statement, "Nice way to kill a thread."
superfly®
and see what that does for your anxiety.
"rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
rodNDtube
> "rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
> > Nice geography lesson. I agree, both on a technical and rhetorical
> > basis. But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
> > world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
> > murder. You constantly riducle others' emotional reactions to death and
> > injury -- what is your point other than to draw attention to yourself?
>
> Yes, look at me! My name is superfly®! That's spelled S U P E R fly!
>
> Nobody would even really know my real name if this newsgroup wasn't
> chalk full of ppl who have absolutely nothing better to do than track down
> their usenet demons... fuckin sick.
Again you dwell in the land of fantasy, accusations and innuendo. Make it
real, *Preston Onkst*. Why not come back to the thread and make a
relevant contribution. Think about reviewing your comments from one year
ago today as Neal Miyake suggested.
Related Topic: Tomorrow GB will argue to make Iraqi waters free for all
surfers regardless of race, creed, waveriding vehicle... .
On Topic: Thinking of those I knew that were killed or nearly killed 365
days ago.
superfly®
> I guess this is comedy relief on such a somber day.
turn off the media and the sheep and their pied pipers disappear...
POOF!
superfly®
> Again you dwell in the land of fantasy, accusations and innuendo. Make it
> real, *Preston Onkst*. Why not come back to the thread and make a
> relevant contribution. Think about reviewing your comments from one year
> ago today as Neal Miyake suggested.
Oh I see, before I was trying to get famous by using the moniker superfly?
Now I'm dodging reality by not using my real name...
You are a spoiled, whiney little brat, just like most of the ppl you see on TV
today. I've changed your diapers and got you on ritalin. I'm not sure what
else I can do for you? I guess you'll just grow up to be a member of the
thought police who stalks ppl on (and off) usenet. Oh wait!
I suggest you find someone in real life who you can talk to about this. Because
you
may not realize it but when you start blabbing on usenet to several thousand ppl
whom you don't really know that well about something this personal, you are
doing
nothing more than just posing. Even I have friends in real life. You should too!
> Related Topic: Tomorrow GB will argue to make Iraqi waters free for all
> surfers regardless of race, creed, waveriding vehicle... .
LOL. You really believe all of this, don't you?
After Iraq. lets free the surfers in North Korea!
SurffOhio
>Yea that was pretty sad. A bunch of american babies turned this newsgroup
>into an american-centric-world-event-loaded-diaper clearing house...
Awww Superfly, my friend,
compassion is
part of life just as surfing is. The
rush you experience when the
board is chattering under your
feet
while you trim down the line,
is borne out of the same part
of your soul
that cries out for your fellow man
when he/she has fallen upon
disaster.
Surff
SurfSarge
>>into an american-centric-world-event-loaded-diaper clearing house...
>
>Awww Superfly, my friend,
>compassion is
>part of life just as surfing is. The
>rush you experience when the
>board is chattering under your
>feet
>while you trim down the line,
>is borne out of the same part
>of your soul
>that cries out for your fellow man
>when he/she has fallen upon
>disaster.
>
>Surff
very well written...Peace
driftwood®
This was a day based on remembering how valuable life really is. So with
that in mind, no matter how dismal the surf was, it was good to be out.
I heard there was a little bit of swell that was meant for the coast
of Washington. Did you happen to catch any of it?
Rod, we're all part of the sandbox crew at one point. <grins>
Steve M
driftwoodŽ wrote:
> Nice way to kill a thread. Heh... two landlubbers fighting like little kids
> in the sandbox. I guess this is comedy relief on such a somber day.
>
comedy....bwahahahahahha
Three's a crowd.
Later,
Steve
Steve M
superflyŽ wrote:
> "rodNDtube" <rrod...@bcpl.net> wrote
>
>>Nice geography lesson. I agree, both on a technical and rhetorical
>>basis. But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
>>world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
>>murder. You constantly riducle others' emotional reactions to death and
>>injury -- what is your point other than to draw attention to yourself?
>>
>
> Yes, look at me! My name is superflyŽ! That's spelled S U P E R fly!
Nah.....In your best Wild E. Coyote ascii voice, it should
be spelled, "S U U U U U U U P E R F L Y!"
Later,
Steve (Who never uses the spelling card, just the ascii-inflection card)
Timothy B. Maddux
superfly® <superfly@the_ghetto.com> wrote:
>That irreverent dave blake! does he have no decency or morals!!!
I've found him to be a decent guy. I'm not sure what you're
getting at here; he had a good point about going surfing and
I agreed with it then, still do now. I surfed on 9/11/2001.
Note that "unbelievable" was the thread title, and my words
were in brackets -- I mentioned Dave because I agreed.
>Timothy, this EC move isn't working for you...
Your concern is deeply touching.
>You've become just another EC thought policeman ...
Thought policeman? I don't care what you think. As
for what you post, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
>... with no hope of any surf and a government pension to look
>forward to. It wouldn't surprise me if you started boogie boarding...
I'm more likely to get some surf (just did) than I am
this government pension of which you speak. I stopped
boogie boarding 10 years ago, and sold my longboard.
team playas [superfly goes longboarding]
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=uks5jk50e67f23%40corp.supernews.com
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ "From the essence of pure stoke springs all creation."
SurfSarge
>team playas [superfly goes longboarding]
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=uks5jk50e67f23%40corp.supernews.com
-PD
superfly®
It's time for some warmup juice;
http://152.80.49.204/products/WW3/ww3.b.npac.swl_wav_ht.132.gif
"driftwood®" <drift...@hotcurlmail.com> wrote
superfly®
a national holiday and you are made to feel like a traitor if you don't get in
line
w/all the other sheep and civil liberties are confiscated in it's name. Like I
said,
before, IMO, the flag waivers and thought police who make public spectacles
out of themselves on newsgroups are prolly putting more energy into newsgroup
posturing than they are into comforting ppl in their life. But I'm the only one
who
feels that way and the majority will have their way so I'm not quite sure what
the
big stink is? Unless of course there may be some truth to what I've said???
Business as usual in this plastic made-for-tv existence...
"SurffOhio" <surf...@aol.communicate> wrote
superfly®
> I've found him to be a decent guy.
The little son-of-a-bitch didn't bring any gifts. I didn't have
the heart to punch him in the face...
> I'm not sure what you're
> getting at here; he had a good point about going surfing and
> I agreed with it then, still do now. I surfed on 9/11/2001.
> Note that "unbelievable" was the thread title, and my words
> were in brackets -- I mentioned Dave because I agreed.
My mistake.
> I'm more likely to get some surf (just did) than I am
> this government pension of which you speak. I stopped
> boogie boarding 10 years ago, and sold my longboard.
Maybe you better buy another longboard. No surf for 5 months???
> team playas [superfly goes longboarding]
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=uks5jk50e67f23%40corp.supernews.com
No regrets. Throwing around 9 feet of foam on 3 foot days can partially
translate into bigger days with large pieces of foam. Besides it was fun!
driftwood®
driftwood®
Looks like we may catch some of that as well.
Edmund
> 10k ppl die every day from AIDS all over the world. However I don't see
> you throwing a tantrum over that on AS?
Damn, have to agree with old sparky here. We lose 3000 people in one
day and call it 'the day the world changed'?
Bad things happen to good people every day. It's not limited to the
USA.
edmund
FleK
> I'm all for compassion. It just seems a little disingenuous when it's made
into
> a national holiday and you are made to feel like a traitor if you don't
get in
> line
> w/all the other sheep
So it's all about your guilt? Shouldn't you take your own advice and keep
it to yourself? It was a national disaster, and called for some national
mourning. Frankly, I think it's time to cut this mourning shit and get
angry...make the other guys mourn their dead a little and argue about
memorials...but it's not my, nor your place to set a timeframe on someone
else's mourning. You pride yourself on not watchintg TV, but whine about
all the coverage...what gives?
I spent the day with my wife, talking about our next step in life....the TV
was turned on for about 30 minutes while I tried out my new xbox game, but
other than that, nada. I invite anybody from A.S., if you think I'm a
traitor to come forward. I will not flame you....I just want to know
honestly if superfly's paranoia can be backed up. I've never had a flag on
my car, and I never shed a tear for what happened last year. I have
expressed my disbelief and sympathy only in front of my dad, my wife, and a
person I met who's brother was in tower 1. Anybody think I should be
'called on the carpet'?
> and civil liberties are confiscated in it's name.
Please name one way your life is different now vis a' vis civil liberties.
I'll wait.
> Like I said, before, IMO, the flag waivers and thought police who make
public spectacles
> out of themselves on newsgroups are prolly putting more energy into
newsgroup
> posturing than they are into comforting ppl in their life.
Maybe, but is it you who should make that judgement? The only reason you're
biatching about the 'thought police' is because you have a differing opinon
on the mass murder of 3100 innocent Americans. (And no, I don't equate
them with Africans dying of AIDS...going to work != purposeful unsafe risky
sex, as sad as that situation is, they are not equavelant). So what is your
differing opinon? It can no longer be "because it's being overdone"...you
obviously have a beef, else you wouldn't be talking about
thought-police....so get it off your chest, boy...let loose!
You're free to say or type whatever you like, but others are free to believe
you're a heartless wanker if that's how you act.
> But I'm the only one
> who
> feels that way and the majority will have their way so I'm not quite sure
what
> the
> big stink is? Unless of course there may be some truth to what I've
said???
What have you said? You haven't said anything. You've tried to equate
things, and you've whined about the TV coverage....but you haven't *said*
anything. If you didn't post callous responses, nobody would know nor care
what you thought. In other words: You brought it up.
_FleK
dbl...@blakestah.com
> "Timothy B. Maddux" <tbma...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote
>> I've found him to be a decent guy.
> The little son-of-a-bitch didn't bring any gifts. I didn't have
> the heart to punch him in the face...
I was not about to bring gifts to a land meeting with sushi. As I
mentioned, your intended gifts were left on the jetty when you didn't
bother showing up for surf. Prolly some sk8rat in Aberdeen had a really
good time that night. You prolly don't like Islay malts anyway.
-PA
blak...@blakestah.com
> Nice.
> Looks like we may catch some of that as well.
It is a crack-dream. Call me in four days when the over-
ocean winds are actually blowing. This year is looking like
a slow-starter.
-PA
superfly®
> So it's all about your guilt?
None whatsoever. Just resenting the fact that "society" is trying to use
guilt for a whole agenda of other things. Not to mention the capitalistic
nature of some of this 9/11 hype.
> Shouldn't you take your own advice and keep
> it to yourself?
Yes as I usually do. But one can't make their point known w/o
compromising their ideals to some extent in this matter.
> It was a national disaster, and called for some national
> mourning. Frankly, I think it's time to cut this mourning shit and get
> angry...
Join the club. I'm angry 24/7!
> Please name one way your life is different now vis a' vis civil liberties.
> I'll wait.
It is now easier for the government to monitor communications. There
is a nationwide appeal for spook employment. A new bureaucracy is being
formed to control this whole deal. Watch, learn, listen.
> Maybe, but is it you who should make that judgement?
Yes, I just did and will continue to do so. Any opinion is judgement. We
all make thousands of judgments every day. Judgement is not a bad word!
You are sounding more like a liberal everyday, boy!
>The only reason you're
> biatching about the 'thought police' is because you have a differing opinon
> on the mass murder of 3100 innocent Americans.
Not really, I have a different opinion on how it should be expressed in the
media.
> (And no, I don't equate
> them with Africans dying of AIDS...going to work != purposeful unsafe risky
> sex, as sad as that situation is, they are not equavelant).
Not for all the victims. It's just an example. This world is a shithole and
thousands
of ppl die everyday for no good reason.
> You're free to say or type whatever you like, but others are free to believe
> you're a heartless wanker if that's how you act.
If that's convenient for you to think so, go ahead. Whatever gets you thru
the night, sugar.
> What have you said? You haven't said anything. You've tried to equate
> things, and you've whined about the TV coverage....but you haven't *said*
> anything. If you didn't post callous responses, nobody would know nor care
> what you thought. In other words: You brought it up.
I haven't said a thing! Thats why you whiney, bleeding heart, pants pissers are
so upset!
superfly®
to surf. You may want to look up rod and foon. They pic a day
on the calender to surf becasue they don't have any chores or
honey-dos or someone from the newsgroup is coming to town
on a business trip. "Surfing by default". This may fit into your
lifestyle better.
<dbl...@blakestah.com> wrote
blak...@blakestah.com
> Sorry bro, I'm not a social surfer. I surf when there is something
So, you surf when there is something to surf (btw, it was overhead
and pretty clean N/NW swell when I was there - locals were setting up
film equipment)... but you demand gifts whether you surf or meet
for sushi.
I get it. This is one of those "eat your cake and have it too"
things. I guess I truly benefited though - the locals at Rikki Rikki's
woulda eaten me alive if you weren't around. I guess I owe you one...
-PA
Crag Rides Again!
> Timothy, this EC move isn't working for you... You've become just another EC
> thought policeman with no hope of any surf and a government pension to look
> forward to. It wouldn't surprise me if you started boogie boarding...
I don't think that EC surf is good enough for boogie boarding very
often. Tim sold the board that would probably have been most useful
to him.
That said, we scored very good surf on the DelMarVa on Labor Day.
Head+, board-breaking, spitting grinders with offshore wind in the AM
in Foontown. Pitfest! It kind of had that OB Frisco feel, what with
the shifty beachbreak thumpers and the hellatious current (I'm glad I
rememberd my paddling gloves).
After lunch and laughs at the Foonbunker, Suicide Rodriguez
blindfolded me and Neal Carver, and took us to a secret spot for the
late afternooon session. This may well be the heaviest and most
consistent secret big-wave spot in the world. We scored sweet, glassy
head+ Trestle-esque rights, with just 4 guys in the lineup.
It was much better than I expected - definitely good enough for a
boogie board. I even got spin-cycled and held down a couple of
times. Fun! I don't know how often it gets like that, but so far I
have no complaints.
--
Crag
"Get in the pit and try to love someone!" -- Kid Rock
I don't read any responses to my posts.
SurfSarge
>Crag
>"Get in the pit and try to love someone!" -- Kid Rock
> I don't read any responses to my posts.
Shut the fuck up you friggin faggot!!
-PD
superfly®
> So, you surf when there is something to surf (btw, it was overhead
> and pretty clean N/NW swell when I was there - locals were setting up
> film equipment)...
<yawn> is was blown out slop. got any pix?
> but you demand gifts whether you surf or meet
> for sushi.
>
> I get it. This is one of those "eat your cake and have it too"
> things. I guess I truly benefited though - the locals at Rikki Rikki's
> woulda eaten me alive if you weren't around. I guess I owe you one...
yea you do and CF one too.
SurfSarge
>the locals at Rikki Rikki's
>> woulda eaten me alive if you weren't around. I guess I owe you one...
>
>yea you do and CF one too.
Do tell...
-PD
Unknown
I've been watching this too. It's the first one with a half decent
period that's come from that angle. I'm sure it's just a tease - a
reminder that better days do indeed await.
Fluck me, I can barely stand on my 7'8" yuppiestick and even I am
dying for something other that 3' at 8sec.
C-F
Unknown
<superfly@the_ghetto.com> wrote:
>"FleK" <flek*****@cfl.rr.com> wrote
>> So it's all about your guilt?
>It is now easier for the government to monitor communications. There
>is a nationwide appeal for spook employment. A new bureaucracy is being
>formed to control this whole deal. Watch, learn, listen.
>
I noticed the spook brigade too. Hopefully, it's permanently stalled
but the conspiracy theorist in me doubts it. It just sounds so, so...
...East Germany and we know what a fun place that was.
C-F
blak...@blakestah.com
> On 12 Sep 2002 14:10:59 -0700, crag_t...@yahoo.com (Crag Rides
> Again!) wrote:
>>That said, we scored very good surf on the DelMarVa on Labor Day.
>>Head+, board-breaking, spitting grinders with offshore wind in the AM
>>in Foontown. Pitfest! It kind of had that OB Frisco feel, what with
>>the shifty beachbreak thumpers and the hellatious current (I'm glad I
>>rememberd my paddling gloves).
>>
> Oh schitt, someone said 'Frisco' again. If DB/PA sees it, this
> flucking thread will never end.
OB Frisco, in this context, means
"Outer Banks, town of Frisco"
Look it up - it is just south of Hatteras.
Your pedantic asshole,
-PA
Corbea...@the_rookery.com
Takes one to know one.
Wait. I don't think that came out right...
C-F
Tom Keener
wrote:
> But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
>world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
>murder.
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Our freedoms were not attacked
- only our foreign policy. The perpetrators have never said anything
regarding our freedoms. What they object to is our corporate, social,
and political behavior on the world stage. If the US were totally
isolationist, (& I'm not for an instant suggesting we should be,) our
enemies would go away.
The only threat to our freedoms is from ourselves.
Tom Keener
email me if you want my email address
FleK
"Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
news:3d822f70....@nntp.cts.com...
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:42:53 -0400, rodNDtube <rrod...@bcpl.net>
> wrote:
>
> > But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
> >world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
> >murder.
>
> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Our freedoms were not attacked
> - only our foreign policy. The perpetrators have never said anything
> regarding our freedoms. What they object to is our corporate, social,
> and political behavior on the world stage. If the US were totally
> isolationist, (& I'm not for an instant suggesting we should be,) our
> enemies would go away.
>
Untrue. In the wahabbist mosques of Turkey, they preach capitalism and
women's rights as the epicenter of what they're fighting.
Tom Keener
Since when has Turkey ever been mentioned as our enemy?
FleK
"Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
> >>
> >
> >
> >Untrue. In the wahabbist mosques of Turkey, they preach capitalism and
> >women's rights as the epicenter of what they're fighting.
>
> Since when has Turkey ever been mentioned as our enemy?
>
I didn't say Turkey was ever mentioned as 'our enemy'. Turkey is a great
ally to the U.S., and proof-positive that a country can be devout Islamic
and not be fundie frea-a-zoids. AFAIK, our enemy as a rule doesn't have a
country (since we ran the taleban out of Afghanistan). It is just as true
that capitalism and women's rights are preached as the bane of western
civilization by the more virulent strains of Islam (meaning militant
Islam...the enemies we're talking about) in England, the U.S., Canada,
Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, and elsewhere. I was just relating a
personal expirence versus using an educated guess plus what we know from
putting two and two together.
Going back to what you said:
> >> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Our freedoms were not attacked
> >> - only our foreign policy. The perpetrators have never said anything
> >> regarding our freedoms. What they object to is our corporate, social,
> >> and political behavior on the world stage. If the US were totally
> >> isolationist, (& I'm not for an instant suggesting we should be,) our
> >> enemies would go away.
> >>
I'm also reminded that in Al-Qaeda diatribes and propaganda materials, the
words "For the last 80 years..." keeps popping up. Cracking a history book
will tell you that this means the 1923 collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
I've grown in understanding of the Islamic mindset and I'll enlighten you if
you wish, but right now I think that'd be overkill at proving my point.
_FleK
rodNDtube
Believe I understand where you are coming from, but will assert that our
freedoms were attacked, both directly and indirectly. Directly because
the fundamentalist Moslems want nothing more than to take away our
freedoms and indirectly because of the increasing restrictions on our
fundamental civil liberties.
One's enemies do not retreat from a nation's isolationist stance... but a
country like Costa Rica does manage very well without an army, navy,
airforce and marine corps. And yes, our foreign policy can provoke our
enemies, but even in a state of political isolation our culture would
remain a huge symbol of decadent capitalism and a threat and target.
Surf content: This current state of affairs has not affected my
tempo of surfing nor my surf travels.
Rod Rodgers
eMail: rrod...@bcpl.net
Homepage: http://www.rodNDtube.com/
GuidoPalooza: http://www.rodndtube.com/gp/guidopalooza.html
Tom Keener
>I didn't say Turkey was ever mentioned as 'our enemy'.
You're right. You just jumped in with a non sequiter. Right on cue.
You're just like my neighbor's dog. Anybody walks by what he considers
his territory, and the mutt goes crazy, jumping up & down, yapping
away.
> I'll enlighten you
That's cute.
Tom Keener
wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Tom Keener wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:42:53 -0400, rodNDtube <rrod...@bcpl.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
>> >world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
>> >murder.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Our freedoms were not attacked
>> - only our foreign policy. The perpetrators have never said anything
>> regarding our freedoms. What they object to is our corporate, social,
>> and political behavior on the world stage. If the US were totally
>> isolationist, (& I'm not for an instant suggesting we should be,) our
>> enemies would go away.
>>
>> The only threat to our freedoms is from ourselves.
>>
>freedoms were attacked, both directly and indirectly. Directly because
>the fundamentalist Moslems want nothing more than to take away our
>freedoms and indirectly because of the increasing restrictions on our
>fundamental civil liberties.
>
>One's enemies do not retreat from a nation's isolationist stance... but a
>country like Costa Rica does manage very well without an army, navy,
>airforce and marine corps. And yes, our foreign policy can provoke our
>enemies, but even in a state of political isolation our culture would
>remain a huge symbol of decadent capitalism and a threat and target.
There are many other countries with similar freedoms which are not
targets. If our freedoms, or our political or economic system were the
problem, those countries would also be targets. The only reason we are
targeted is because of our policies.
If all our freedoms were to disappear, yet our foreign policy stayed
the same, it wouldn't change things as far as Al Qaeda is concerned.
OTOH, if the US were to switch sides in the middle east, it would
throw them for a loop.
john_3:16
> > Tom Keener wrote:
> > rodNDtube wrote:
> >> > But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
> >> >world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
> >> >murder.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Our freedoms were not attacked
> >> - only our foreign policy.
> >> The only threat to our freedoms is from ourselves.
> There are many other countries with similar freedoms which are not
> targets. If our freedoms, or our political or economic system were the
> problem, those countries would also be targets. The only reason we are
> targeted is because of our policies.
> If all our freedoms were to disappear, yet our foreign policy stayed
> the same, it wouldn't change things as far as Al Qaeda is concerned.
> OTOH, if the US were to switch sides in the middle east, it would
> throw them for a loop.
It's funny how you two sidestep the real issue. Neither of you mention
the "I" word. Bush washes his hands of Isreal, your problem is solved.
For centuries
Arabs hates the Jews. As long as Bush backs Isreal, Al Queda. et al,
are coming after you. Live with it. Old Arabs and old Jews no longer
cut it Replace them with young leadership.
baptist john
SurffOhio
>I'm all for compassion.
I know. I've seen you be kind
in situations where others
wouldn't be.
It just seems a little disingenuous when it's made
>into
>a national holiday and you are made to feel like a traitor if you don't get
>in
>line
>w/all the other sheep and civil liberties are confiscated in it's name.
I don't think you have
ever backed off from your
feelings towards people or
organizations that are phony.
You've remained true to your
ideals, and I respect that.
Surff
superfly®
> Believe I understand where you are coming from, but will assert that our
> freedoms were attacked, both directly and indirectly. Directly because
> the fundamentalist Moslems want nothing more than to take away our
> freedoms and indirectly because of the increasing restrictions on our
> fundamental civil liberties.
>
> One's enemies do not retreat from a nation's isolationist stance... but a
> country like Costa Rica does manage very well without an army, navy,
> airforce and marine corps. And yes, our foreign policy can provoke our
> enemies, but even in a state of political isolation our culture would
> remain a huge symbol of decadent capitalism and a threat and target.
If costa rica backed the Jews with billions of dollars of aid and military
support they would become a target. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't
back Israel. It just may be that our destiny is out of our control WRT the
middle east.
> Surf content: This current state of affairs has not affected my
> tempo of surfing nor my surf travels.
That's too bad. Something needs to wake you from your slumber.
Tom Keener
wrote:
>keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part (Tom Keener) wrote in message
>
>> > Tom Keener wrote:
>> > rodNDtube wrote:
>
>> >> > But since you bring this up... it is the center of the free
>> >> >world... and our freedoms were attacked, in simple terms, premeditated
>> >> >murder.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Our freedoms were not attacked
>> >> - only our foreign policy.
>> >> The only threat to our freedoms is from ourselves.
>
>> There are many other countries with similar freedoms which are not
>> targets. If our freedoms, or our political or economic system were the
>> problem, those countries would also be targets. The only reason we are
>> targeted is because of our policies.
>> If all our freedoms were to disappear, yet our foreign policy stayed
>> the same, it wouldn't change things as far as Al Qaeda is concerned.
>> OTOH, if the US were to switch sides in the middle east, it would
>> throw them for a loop.
>
>It's funny how you two sidestep the real issue. Neither of you mention
>the "I" word. Bush washes his hands of Isreal, your problem is solved.
I thought that was implicit in the term "middle east".
And let me elaborate on the "freedom" thing. I think it's a red
herring. It's a distraction from the real issues. As long as we think
the terrorism is an attack on our freedoms, or our bicameral
legislature, or the color of our flag, it takes away the focus on the
only thing that will solve the problem. And that is the middle east,
(ie, Israel.)
FleK
"Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:56:24 GMT, "FleK" <flek*****@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> >I didn't say Turkey was ever mentioned as 'our enemy'.
>
> You're right. You just jumped in with a non sequiter. Right on cue.
> You're just like my neighbor's dog. Anybody walks by what he considers
> his territory, and the mutt goes crazy, jumping up & down, yapping
> away.
What's your problem? I disagree and give examples, and you resort to trying
to put me down by comparing me to your neighbor's dog. Why do you hate
dogs? Does your neighbor know you hate his dog? Do you act like this in
RL? Is your speedo too tite?
> > I'll enlighten you
>
> That's cute.
>
Oh, of course...keener can't learn anything from anybody, no siree!
Get ahold of yourself, kook.
_FleK
FleK
"Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
> >
> >> There are many other countries with similar freedoms which are not
> >> targets. If our freedoms, or our political or economic system were the
> >> problem, those countries would also be targets. The only reason we are
> >> targeted is because of our policies.
> >> If all our freedoms were to disappear, yet our foreign policy stayed
> >> the same, it wouldn't change things as far as Al Qaeda is concerned.
> >> OTOH, if the US were to switch sides in the middle east, it would
> >> throw them for a loop.
> >
> >It's funny how you two sidestep the real issue. Neither of you mention
> >the "I" word. Bush washes his hands of Isreal, your problem is solved.
First off, tubesteak (profile #37), attach changing your political agenda
with terrorism at your own peril. The reasons are obvious. We are dealing
with religious fanatics with fairly popular support back home. You think
the end game is getting us to stop our support of Israel so they can devour
her? You believe they will stop there? Do you know who Chamberlin was?
>
> I thought that was implicit in the term "middle east".
Yeah, Tom, you've been to Israel, right? You know all about the middle
east!
> And let me elaborate on the "freedom" thing. I think it's a red
> herring. It's a distraction from the real issues. As long as we think
> the terrorism is an attack on our freedoms, or our bicameral
> legislature, or the color of our flag,
Get that straw man boy, go for his leg grrrrrr!
it takes away the focus on the
> only thing that will solve the problem. And that is the middle east,
> (ie, Israel.)
So you *do* believe that us pulling the rug from Israel will spark a
love-fest between us and militant Islam? Delusional much?
Tom Keener on Hilter: awww, c'mon, just make peace and he'll leave Poland
alone!
Tom Keener on Hitler: awww, c'mon, just let him have France and
England...he'll leave us alone!
Tom Keener after the Pearl Harbor attack: awww, c'mon, it's our policies
they hate!
Tome Keener comparing suicide bombers targeting civilians to military action
that targets terrorists: Did you see that? Did you see that? They
arrested that pooor terrorist!
Tom Keener after 9/11: awww, c'mon, it's our policies they hate!, we
deserved it, what with our support of other democracies and such!
Tom Keener to a freshly-raped woman: awww, c'mon, you knew better than to
wear that cute dress!
None of your liberal objections matter. None of your angst, your animosity,
your ambivalence, your hate, your spite, your jaded senses, your pessimism,
or your expertly honed bitter disdain for all things that have been around
longer than you, and will be around longer than you matters even to the
smallest degree.
Every breath you use to damn the idea of patriotism because you're incapable
of giving a shiat simply serves to remove you a little further from everyone
else who does.
How dare you insert your inept paranoia and aimless labels of corruption and
conspiracy into the very idea of being proud of a concept of freedom? We
are the greatest civilization this world has ever seen, yet you only see
fault. You stick up for people who make their women cover themselves in
shame, and preach death to you, *yes, you* and your family.
You don't deserve the freedom you do have to damn our country, you
speedo-wearing asswizard. (how's that for 'name calling')
Fight the jihad, Tom!
_FleK
Rico
>" Let's face it, there is a significant body of opinion throughout the
> world that the West (basically, the UK, the US and their allies) have
> ridden roughshod over Islamic peoples for a long time. Until that
> issue is addressed, there will be no end to heinous acts like the WTC
> crime.
We have ignored their conquest and expansion by force for 1400 years.
We have tolerated their expressions of their religious tenets,
conciliated to them on almost every point raised. We have treated with
them, given charity to them, tried to bribe their monarchs into acting
responsibly, and tried to promote peace and democratic process when we
could.
Islam comes at the point of a sword- always has. They're not just
fighting with us, they're fighting with *anyone* who is non-muslim;
Hindus, Buddhists, Animist/Shamanists, Jews- everybody.
They've threatened to use nuclear weapons (as in Kashmir just a few
weeks ago), they've used other prohibited weapons to support their
strong-man regimes- and there's no reason to believe that they won't
do it over any agenda that crosses their minds.
There is no reason to tolerate them if they won't act civilly. One
would not support the idea of tolerating 'Thuggee', or ritual
cannibalism, or human sacrifice just because it is a religious tenet.
No reason to tolerate the idea that 'submission' is a *requirement*,
or that refusing to submit is an indication of planned violence and
thus justifies preemptive attack.
This PC shit has gone too far when we celebrate the diversity of
tolerating people who mean to conquer us as a basic tenet of their
cosmology."
Rico
"Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
news:3d82d086....@nntp.cts.com...
FleK
"Rico" <fba...@attbiteme.com> wrote in message news:xYOg9.321730
> We have ignored their conquest and expansion by force for 1400 years.
> We have tolerated their expressions of their religious tenets,
> conciliated to them on almost every point raised. We have treated with
> them, given charity to them, tried to bribe their monarchs into acting
> responsibly, and tried to promote peace and democratic process when we
> could.
> Islam comes at the point of a sword- always has. They're not just
> fighting with us, they're fighting with *anyone* who is non-muslim;
> Hindus, Buddhists, Animist/Shamanists, Jews- everybody.
> They've threatened to use nuclear weapons (as in Kashmir just a few
> weeks ago), they've used other prohibited weapons to support their
> strong-man regimes- and there's no reason to believe that they won't
> do it over any agenda that crosses their minds.
> There is no reason to tolerate them if they won't act civilly. One
> would not support the idea of tolerating 'Thuggee', or ritual
> cannibalism, or human sacrifice just because it is a religious tenet.
> No reason to tolerate the idea that 'submission' is a *requirement*,
> or that refusing to submit is an indication of planned violence and
> thus justifies preemptive attack.
> This PC shit has gone too far when we celebrate the diversity of
> tolerating people who mean to conquer us as a basic tenet of their
> cosmology."
>
Good point. In other words, convert or die. Funny how the same ppl that
are apologists for militant Islam today are the same who rail against the
'crusades' that happened dozens of generations ago.
The biggest loosers in this whole thing are Muslims who live under this
crap. They want the same things we do, to have a decent live and watch
their kids have babies of their own....well, biggest loosers next to those
who had to be incinerated just for going to work one morning.
_FleK
superfly®
> You don't deserve the freedom you do have to damn our country, you
> speedo-wearing asswizard. (how's that for 'name calling')
Not bad. I thought you were losing your touch.
Do you think we can get this newsgroup back on-topic?
You know, name calling, witch hunts and profile development?
FleK
Profile Development! AHHH! Good news. Ping me.
_FleK
john_3:16
> "Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
> news:3d835fbc....@nntp.cts.com...
>
>
> First off, TUBESTEAK (profile #37), attach changing your political agenda
> with terrorism at your own peril. The reasons are obvious. We are dealing
> with religious fanatics with fairly popular support back home. You think
> the end game is getting us to stop our support of Israel so they can devour
> her? You believe they will stop there? Do you know who Chamberlain was?
Why, yes I do.
Wilt the Stilt (profile #13}.
Tom Keener
>grrrrrr!
Here doggy, now bark! That's a good boy.
FleK
is such that he doesn't understand he swim circles in the same tank.
Nice way to address the issue, Tom...proving that you're not only unable to
deal with facts, but you're a jerk.
_FleK
"Tom Keener" <keen...@cts.com_but_not_this_part> wrote in message
news:3d845c24....@nntp.cts.com...
Surfer Bob
>>> Please name one way your life is different now vis a' vis civil
liberties.
>>> I'll wait.
Then "superfly®" <superfly@the_ghetto.com> wrote:
> >It is now easier for the government to monitor communications. There
> >is a nationwide appeal for spook employment. A new bureaucracy is being
> >formed to control this whole deal. Watch, learn, listen.
Then Corbeau_Freux <> backed himself up:
> I noticed the spook brigade too. Hopefully, it's permanently stalled
> but the conspiracy theorist in me doubts it. It just sounds so, so...
> ...East Germany and we know what a fun place that was.
Aw Lem, I can't just sit here and watch you defend yourself with your
other profiles like this. I'll back you up. And Tom Keener too, while
I'm at it.
<soapbox mode>
Wake up FleK. Several thousand of our countrymen are currently being
detained in isolation, without formal charge, without access to legal
counsel, without any provisions guarenteed to our citizens by the Bill
of Rights. They await secret trials by military tribunals that will
pass judgement on them without presenting evidence to anybody on
charges of violating extremely broadly worded new statutes that will
have the force of law even though they are completely outside the
processes of our justice department. This is well beyond a usual
left-versus-right fight over civil liberties. Even rightwing
hardliners (some of them) are speaking out in alarm about this. We are
all less free when this is happening in our country. If you are the
right color (now) and you aren't paying attention (now), you may feel
safe. But it could happen to you or your neighbors tomorrow. When this
kind of stuff goes down no one has the constitutional protections they
normally take for granted.
This is the biggest, fastest, most powerful attack on our civil
liberties in a very long time. As if to emphasize the fact that they
are the worst news for civil liberties in over a century, the Bush
administration is well on its way in seeking to revise or repeal the
Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. Remember that from your civil war history
class? You might care to review:
http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
It was passed by southern politicians after 15 years of military
occupation in the aftermath of our civil war. They wanted to make very
sure that the US military could not be used against the US people on
US soil ever again. The War on Drugs bunch have been chafing under its
restrictions for years now. But the current crisis has created
exploitable opportunities for them that mere fear of crackheads would
never allow them to get away with.
Now to defend Keener. FleK, I perceive your righteous indignation and
cede you whatever respect that deserves as a human being, but that's
all. You are swallowing the corporate media message, hook line and
sinker. The perpetrators of 9/11 obviously were not attacking symbols
of our freedom or liberties. If so they would have crashed a plane
into the Statue of Liberty. They attacked the biggest symbols of
American corporate and military power. Target #4 would apparently have
been a symbol of American political power (either the Capitol or the
White House). Folks in the Middle East (and other places) don't hate
our liberty. Many of their people want to come to America and enjoy
that liberty themselves, because they can't make it happen at home (no
thanks to us). What they don't like is international corporations
consuming their countries for fun and profit with no regard to the
disastrous human toll in their neighborhoods. And they don't like US
military and political power being projected into their countries to
thwart the hopes and dreams of their own people so foreign businesses
can exploit them more effectively, steal their natural resources and
suck out every last penny of their wealth.
America was a great nation long before we were a great military
superpower. Our weapons only make us a great threat. Our country is
great because of the super wonderful ideas that everyone can be equal
before the law and because of the idea of economic opportunity on
something approaching a level playing field for anyone who wants to
work hard. We haven't really achieved either here yet, but we're
closer than many and we are at our greatest when we start going there.
If our nation were serious about exporting democratic values,
political equality, and genuine economic opportunity that others could
share in, we'd be the most popular nation on Earth. But that's not
what we export. We export rampant, pillaging robber baron capitalism
and a really cynical, shockingly amoral kind of political and military
manipulation that supports the same. And people abroad hate those
institutions. You can rant and rave about Islamic fundamentalism being
the problem if you like, but look at Iran's experience. Fundamentalist
Islam is not that apealing to most people there, especially the young,
especially the educated, especially the women. What almost everyone
really want is the values I mentioned above. If we started really
serving them out instead of pretending to while doing just the
opposite, guys like Osama Bin Laden would be very lonely men. The
values that made America great are universal values. That's why folks
from the whole world have wanted to immigrate here for 225 years. If
honestly offered to the world, they would slowly percolate into the
islamic world just as surely as Soviet-bloc-style communism ran its
course and went bankrupt. But it would be bad for robber baron
capitalism.
One of the major themes I perceive in modern American politics is this
constant
equating of capitalism and democracy and freedom. Capitalism is not
the same thing as democracy. And under hardcore capitalism, there's
not that much freedom. Our country got a lot more democratic and free
a hundred years ago during a big and hard fought populist uprising
against robber baron capitalism that curbed some of its worst abuses
to the point that our nation could thrive (like women finally got to
vote and we got some basic labor protection standards in place). Our
leaders talk about exporting democracy and freedom when they're really
exporting a very heavyhanded kind of capitalism that had to be
reformed in our own country long ago. Now that our major media is
completely controlled by (how many- 4?) giant corporations, all you
will ever hear on TV, radio or most press is their agenda. And did you
notice how fast the Internet became a corporate tool? If America
really exported equality under the law, genuine democracy and local
economic opportunity for all, American companies would no longer make
out like bandits abroad. We export what we export because our
political institutions are controlled by big business interests. You
want to stop terrorist attacks? Work for campaign finance reform at
home first. Take back control of our own government. Then change our
foreign policy.
</soapbox mode>
Now to get back on thread topic:
Since we're retrospective, here's a very insightful view of 9/11
written by an Indian (asian subcontinent, not American) writer on
9/29/01 about how the world perceived the situation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,559756,00.html
And here's reference to a speech made by Carl Sagan several years
before 9/11 that put the whole thing into perspective for me when an
astronomer friend sent it to me days after 9/11:
http://www.seds.org/billa/psc/pbd.html
OK, enough out of me,
Surfer Bob
Church of the Open Sky
OBsurfr
You could have a home ,anytime you like, here in the People's Republic of
Ocean Beach, San Diego.
Keep the faith. ;)
--
OBsurfr
www.kneed4speed.com
"Surfer Bob" <surfe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5579a18.02091...@posting.google.com...
FleK
I agree on those being held "incommunicado". OTOH, there is legal president
for what is being done. Special powers are ceeded to the government during
times of war. I believe that we should declare war, but against whom? The
short answer is 'militant Islam', but for political reasons we cann't do
this.
If enough heads get put together, the terms could be metted out, and a
declaration could be made. It *should* be made, and it would be a legal and
public dividing line, as to when those powers would end.
Capitalism is a by-product of liberty. The freedom to conduct business and
follow your path to providing for your family is paramount
You don't have liberty in a socialist government. Socialism/communism is
the opposite of capitalism. Government dictating to me how I run a business
is government dictating to me how I run my life. Conversely, you can't have
socialism without a brooding, intrusive government. It isn't perfect, but
the capitalist system rewards those who work hard, period.
We can discuss more when I have more time. Or you could just pick up a book
by Ayn Rand. I appreciate the thought you put into your post, I agree on
most of your points.
OTOH, in real-life...if you would read some of the paper on these guys that
law enforcement is holding, you'd have no problem with them being held. I
agree, that they need to at least see a federal judge, in a public hearing
(some elements will need to remain secret).
Awe F'shore
<soapbox contents snipped>
> </soapbox mode>
Excellent post Bob.
Our government is no longer a free democratic institution.
It is a government:
by the corporation.
of the corporation.
for the corporation.
And now we have and MBA and a CEO in the White House. And just when the
heat starts to turn on, re: the two White House CEO's questionable
business dealings in the very recent and not too distant past regarding
their own corporations, suddenly the Iraq card gets played again and the
media is 'right on it!"
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13663
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13909
Sorry to say, but there are a lot of fat, dumb and happy Americans that
have let it get to this point. The responsibility is ours to take it
back. Starting here, at home.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14086
Awe
FleK
"Awe F'shore" <xlight...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:9E9h9.1407
<snip>
www.waronwant.org ????????????????????
What kind of dystopian bullshit is that? Tobin tax? BWAHAHAHAHAAH
*passes out
superfly®
> Aw Lem, I can't just sit here and watch you defend yourself with your
> other profiles like this. I'll back you up. And Tom Keener too, while
> I'm at it.
Ooh thnx! You look so big and strong when you come
and rescue me like this!
<snip>
> Work for campaign finance reform at
> home first. Take back control of our own government. Then change our
> foreign policy.
The shortcomings of democapitalism are evident. It's not what
it was cracked up to be. But better than the alternatives.
That won't stop puny little man however! Next stop...
World government!
<< it's hard to find the will
whatever, nevermind >>
Awe F'shore
the following bullshit on the pristine pages of this NG:
>
> "Awe F'shore" <xlight...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9E9h9.1407
> <snip>
>
> www.waronwant.org ????????????????????
>
above. It was a link buried withing a link, you lying ASKOTY FUCKWAD!
> What kind of dystopian bullshit is that? Tobin tax? BWAHAHAHAHAAH
>
> *passes out
Usually happens when you have your head buried deep within your ass I
would imagine.
see puppy run
see puppy bark
see tail wag puppy
see ya flek
blak...@blakestah.com
> "FleK" <flek*****@cfl.rr.com> MISQUOTED ANOTHER ONE when he plastered
> the following bullshit on the pristine pages of this NG:
>>
>> "Awe F'shore" <xlight...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:9E9h9.1407
>> <snip>
>>
>> www.waronwant.org ????????????????????
>>
> AweF'shore didn't "wrote" the above, nor did he provide a link to the
> above. It was a link buried withing a link, you lying ASKOTY FUCKWAD!
Come on, last year Flek was hardly even in the running.
However, the two previous years were classic.
It'll be interesting this year. Lots of material to work with. Last
year's champion appears to be almost taking a year off (besides
threatening me multiple times, he's been fairly domicile). New
contenders emerge. Kinda like the circle of life. Don't worry though -
there is LOTS of time to go, and you can be certain of one thing - KOTY
nominees have yet to really show their stuff.
-PA
Tim Maddux
> year's champion appears to be almost taking a year off (besides
See, this is the problem, I don't even know who last year's
champion was, or for any year, for that matter. Different
people claim different things and there's no consensus.
According to Blakestah, who was last year's ASKOTY?
--
don't email me
blak...@blakestah.com
> who was last year's ASKOTY?
SCR, above and beyond the rest.
-PA
johnh
I am fairly certain he is referring to one Sean Rhodes.
johnh
FleK
> "FleK" <flek*****@cfl.rr.com> MISQUOTED ANOTHER ONE when he plastered
> the following bullshit on the pristine pages of this NG:
> >
> > "Awe F'shore" <xlight...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:9E9h9.1407
> > <snip>
> >
> > www.waronwant.org ????????????????????
> >
> AweF'shore didn't "wrote" the above, nor did he provide a link to the
> above. It was a link buried withing a link, you lying ASKOTY FUCKWAD!
>
It was part of one of your suggestions. Wassa matter? can't let your
suggestions stand a little scruitiny? If you're going to be a flaming
liberal, be proud!
_FleK
FleK
<snip>
..yeah, sorda like a California wanker calling himself 'blakestah'.
_FleK
Michael Sullivan
>
> <blak...@blakestah.com> wrote in message news:<Qkdh9.306$rV7.15...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
> > It'll be interesting this year. Lots of material to work with. Last
> > year's champion appears to be almost taking a year off (besides
> > threatening me multiple times, he's been fairly domicile)...
>
> See, this is the problem, I don't even know who last year's
> champion was, or for any year, for that matter. Different
> people claim different things and there's no consensus.
when someone says "last year's ASKOTY" who do you think
of?
I'd say it's a consensus.
Mike
Timothy B. Maddux
Michael Sullivan <su...@forsythe.stanford.edu> wrote:
>when someone says "last year's ASKOTY" who do you think of?
I think of m@rk, but that's just me. Can we nominate
him this year for putting his stinkbug on a calendar
and having someone pimp it?
It's never clear who *the group* eventually decides upon,
if anyone, which was why I asked. Usually seems like one
person has a bone to grind with another, and they just go
back and forth saying "you are ASKOTY" "no, YOU are" (jb
and Carson, anyone?) and we never really decide, except the
one time we voted and surfGEO "won," only maybe he didn't
since Lemming was hosting the vote.
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ "Moderation in all things... including moderation."
blak...@blakestah.com
> In article <3D8609...@forsythe.stanford.edu>,
> Michael Sullivan <su...@forsythe.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>when someone says "last year's ASKOTY" who do you think of?
> I think of m@rk, but that's just me. Can we nominate
> him this year for putting his stinkbug on a calendar
> and having someone pimp it?
> It's never clear who *the group* eventually decides upon,
> if anyone, which was why I asked. Usually seems like one
> person has a bone to grind with another, and they just go
> back and forth saying "you are ASKOTY" "no, YOU are" (jb
> and Carson, anyone?) and we never really decide, except the
> one time we voted and surfGEO "won," only maybe he didn't
> since Lemming was hosting the vote.
It was pretty clear last year. The kookishness ranneth amok,
particularly in January when it counts the most.
See the nomination
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=eastcoastcharger-38D88A.02195716012002
%40news.bellatlantic.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
And the second
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1909861222d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=
UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=slrna4bfb1.1ut.dblake%40popper.ucsf.edu
-PA
Surfer Bob
> ...there is legal president for what is being done...
LOL. A simple typo on your part I'm sure. There are many who would say
the way W became President was NOT legal, but that's so far off topic
and so unresolvable by argument that I'll stop now.
> ...Special powers are ceeded to the government during
> times of war. I believe that we should declare war, but against whom?
Yes, but as you pointed out in the next breath, we are not really at
war yet in the sense that the Constitution requires. I know W said we
were, but he says a lot of things that ain't so. Remember when he said
(to the leader of that nation) he didn't know there were any black
people in Brazil?
> ...Capitalism is a by-product of liberty.
> You don't have liberty in a socialist government. Socialism/communism is
> the opposite of capitalism. Government dictating to me how I run a business
> is government dictating to me how I run my life.
Maybe, and yet without any form of legal restraint, unfettered
capitalism routinely and very rapidly leads to situations so socially
and economically desparate for most of the people that little liberty
exists. And when things get that bad, revolutions and rebellions can
topple governments. This is why capitalism and totalitarian
governments go so well together. That's exactly what the Nazis were.
This is what many of the nasty countries who are our ostensible allies
even though they have abysmal human rights records are. Many
businesses operate very profitably in totalitarian nations around the
world and most of the very hardworking people are under a boot. The
totalitarian government keeps the people in line and desparately
working for really cheap while the businesses operate very profitably.
Our businesses export the profits.
Without some of the reforms and regulations our nation imposed on the
business community (mostly 1890's to 1930's), our nation would have
become perilously unstable a long time ago. Maybe we'd have had a
totalitarian clampdown. Maybe a communist revolution. Hard to say how
it might have gone. Note that you don't need to actually have a
revolution for things to be unstable enough to be bad for business.
When perceived risk of upset grows, capital flight occurs and nations
are plunged into recession. Then the ugly stuff really starts. In a
very real sense some of the very government regulations that business
leaders fight against save the business climate for everyone. There
are huge amounts of government regulation that are ineffective and
stupid, but a few key good laws have really made a huge difference for
our nation. Many nations lack these laws.
> ...It isn't perfect, but
> the capitalist system rewards those who work hard, period.
You might ask how richly those working in asian sweatshop hellholes
are rewarded for working 16 hour days at 17 cents an hour making the
Walmart families the richest folks on the planet. Part of the whole
idea of capitalism is that those who control the capital run the show
and those who don't are SOL.
Without a fairly level playing field and somewhat equitable access to
capital, it's a bad deal for almost everybody. You can't leave those
details out.
> OTOH, in real-life...if you would read some of the paper on these guys that
> law enforcement is holding, you'd have no problem with them being held.
The only ones I've heard much said about are the really heinous and
obvious cases with high PR value for the cause. But there are
thousands about which we know n-o-t-h-i-n-g. I cannot comment on them
except to say that in America no one should be held like that. I think
we agree on that.
Whew. How far off topic will this group tolerate?
Let's get back to surfing soon, eh brah?
Surfer Bob
Mama_Sus
<snipage>
> You don't have liberty in a socialist government. Socialism/communism is
> the opposite of capitalism. Government dictating to me how I run a business
> is government dictating to me how I run my life. Conversely, you can't have
> socialism without a brooding, intrusive government. It isn't perfect, but
> the capitalist system rewards those who work hard, period.
A few good alternative sites picked this up:
-------------------------------
Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
By The Associated Press
September 5, 2002
Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights
by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following
the terror attacks:
* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION:
Government may monitor religious and political institutions
without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror
investigation.
* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION:
Government has closed once-public immigration hearings,
has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges,
and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records
requests.
* FREEDOM OF SPEECH:
Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any
other records if they tell anyone that the government
subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION:
Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse
conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny
lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES:
Government may search and seize Americans' papers and
effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL:
Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
* RIGHT TO LIBERTY:
Americans may be jailed without being charged or being
able to confront witnesses against them.
---------------------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " - Benjamin Franklin
FleK
>
> > ...there is legal president for what is being done...
>
> LOL. A simple typo on your part I'm sure. There are many who would say
> the way W became President was NOT legal, but that's so far off topic
> and so unresolvable by argument that I'll stop now.
>
>
> Yes, but as you pointed out in the next breath, we are not really at
> war yet in the sense that the Constitution requires. I know W said we
> were, but he says a lot of things that ain't so. Remember when he said
> (to the leader of that nation) he didn't know there were any black
> people in Brazil?
...thus contining the tradition of liberals reporting half-truths and lies
as fact:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/brazil.htm
Considering that this news wasn't reported until five to thirteen months
after the event, we have to wonder whether the person reporting it was
actually present for the occasion. (Indeed, the literal English text of
Bush's question as printed in Estado de Sao Paulo -- "Do you have blacks,
also?" -- bears the marks of non-English speakers who typically write 'also'
where English speakers more commonly use 'too.')
You've got "W" issues, that is obvious. I'm not going to convince you he's
not an idiot (because they *let* idiots fly jets, ya know!), a decent man,
or a good president. If you believe such unproven things against him, any
amount of truth is an uphill battle, so really, I don't care to address your
issues. You're very open-minded about everything else, really.
> > ...Capitalism is a by-product of liberty.
> > You don't have liberty in a socialist government. Socialism/communism
is
> > the opposite of capitalism. Government dictating to me how I run a
business
> > is government dictating to me how I run my life.
>
> Maybe, and yet without any form of legal restraint, unfettered
> capitalism routinely and very rapidly leads to situations so socially
> and economically desparate for most of the people that little liberty
> exists.
Where is there unfettered capitalism? Enron, Global Crossing, etc broke
many laws...and heads have rolled and continue to roll for it. They didn't
think twice about breaking the law, so new ones won't convince them not to
screw people. Rat-bastards exist. Some are rich, some are poor, some use
violence, some use nefarious stock deals. I'm all for hanging them all up
and giving them a good public flogging, followed by jail time in a federal
pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
/office space
And when things get that bad, revolutions and rebellions can
> topple governments. This is why capitalism and totalitarian
> governments go so well together.
Where on this planet does that happen? Dictatorships and communism go
together. Look at Africa, the Middle-East, the old Soviet Union, Eastern
Europe, Indonesia, etc. I'm trying to think of *one* place that is
capitalist and totalitarian. My guess is that your definition is skewed, or
you're getting this from your "Dubya in Brazil" source.
That's exactly what the Nazis were.
> This is what many of the nasty countries who are our ostensible allies
> even though they have abysmal human rights records are. Many
> businesses operate very profitably in totalitarian nations around the
> world and most of the very hardworking people are under a boot. The
> totalitarian government keeps the people in line and desparately
> working for really cheap while the businesses operate very profitably.
> Our businesses export the profits.
Those nations aren't capitalist...capitalism by its very essence rewards on
basis of merit, versus who you are (destroying your 'nazi reference').
> Without some of the reforms and regulations our nation imposed on the
> business community (mostly 1890's to 1930's), our nation would have
> become perilously unstable a long time ago.
...But they were made. Right? I don't get your point. Are you saying it's
time for more regulation? What country, would you say, is a good model for
what we should be shooting?
Maybe we'd have had a
> totalitarian clampdown. Maybe a communist revolution. Hard to say how
> it might have gone. Note that you don't need to actually have a
> revolution for things to be unstable enough to be bad for business.
> When perceived risk of upset grows, capital flight occurs and nations
> are plunged into recession. Then the ugly stuff really starts. In a
> very real sense some of the very government regulations that business
> leaders fight against save the business climate for everyone. There
> are huge amounts of government regulation that are ineffective and
> stupid, but a few key good laws have really made a huge difference for
> our nation. Many nations lack these laws.
Or you can have overregulation... It goes both ways.
> > ...It isn't perfect, but
> > the capitalist system rewards those who work hard, period.
>
> You might ask how richly those working in asian sweatshop hellholes
> are rewarded for working 16 hour days at 17 cents an hour making the
> Walmart families the richest folks on the planet. Part of the whole
> idea of capitalism is that those who control the capital run the show
> and those who don't are SOL.
....And guess who's regulations moved those jobs overseas?
> Without a fairly level playing field and somewhat equitable access to
> capital, it's a bad deal for almost everybody. You can't leave those
> details out.
No, but there's a difference between me wanting an even playing field, and
socialists wanting the outcomes to be even.
> > OTOH, in real-life...if you would read some of the paper on these guys
that
> > law enforcement is holding, you'd have no problem with them being held.
>
> The only ones I've heard much said about are the really heinous and
> obvious cases with high PR value for the cause. But there are
> thousands about which we know n-o-t-h-i-n-g. I cannot comment on them
> except to say that in America no one should be held like that. I think
> we agree on that.
I believe it was the chief justice of the supreme court, that when reviewing
this same type of thing during WWII said: "The constitution is not a
suicide pact.". I may be wrong about who it was, but it definately has
merit. I just think we should have a declaration of war and/or sunset
clauses on the entirity of the USA Patriot act. Moreover, fumigating the
INS and putting a freeze on all immigration, plus immediate deportation of
all nationals hailing from countries on the US's list of 'terror supporting
nations' pending a background check or written 'vouch' from a U.S. senator
would be preferable in my eyes. OTOH, of the clowns busted yesterday in
Buffalo, NY...most were US citizens. I don't have much more than CNN has,
but keep your eye on that story, it's going to get scarey.
> Whew. How far off topic will this group tolerate?
> Let's get back to surfing soon, eh brah?
> Surfer Bob
I think the ,OT keeps us wrapped up like a jimmy-hat.
_FleK
FleK
"Mama_Sus" <stoke...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8de1cb0.02091...@posting.google.com...
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " - Benjamin Franklin
>
OH LORD! mama_sus quoting B. Franklin...lthe four horsemen must be ready to
ride.
_FleK
Awe F'shore
True. I was speaking in the present tense. :) I think he's made up for
any of last years lack recently, or most of this year. He's my #1 choice
so far.
Awe
Awe F'shore
Au contraire, scrutinize away, but websites have links and links and
links. Plucking one of those out and misreping it was bullshit and I'm
calling you on it.
At least now I know you do read though. Good for you.
And flaming liberal isn't the label that fits me. Try extremely open
minded and a seeker of truth, if you must put a label to it.
Awe
Timothy B. Maddux
2nd mention of Nazis in this thread. I invoke
Godwin's Law. Everyone go home.
--
.-``'. Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.` .`~
_.-' '._ "From the essence of pure stoke springs all creation."
Gioni Pasquinelli
I can arrange the FTP access for the owner...
G
http://scsurfers.com
http://altsurfing.org
http://www.pacificwaveriders.com/gioni
SurfSarge
>Can we nominate
>him this year for putting his stinkbug on a calendar
>and having someone pimp it?
I musta missed that one...funny not one picture in the calendar is of
Mark....The only thing Mark did on the calendar was the design...and yes Tim, I
pimped it...Musta worked... I sold a bunch! We should nominate you for ASDOTY!
_PimpDaddy
FleK
>
> Au contraire, scrutinize away, but websites have links and links and
> links. Plucking one of those out and misreping it was bullshit and I'm
> calling you on it.
You wrote:
"The responsibility is ours to take it
back. Starting here, at home.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14086"
At that link is a bunch of suggestions for 'fixing things'. One of their
suggestions is, and I quote:
"The Tobin tax, a proposed small tax on currency transactions, would calm
financial markets, protect developing countries, and generate billions of
dollars to address global poverty. (See www.waronwant.org.)"
I quoted back, exclaiming "TOBIN TAX?" and "waronwant?" and you 'call me on
it". Fuck man, you *could* have just said, "Yeah, war on want, you gotta
problem with that"...but as we can see, liberals are embarassed to be
liberals. You act like it's not even there. You may not like the label,
but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and wants to change our
system to socialism like a duck....
_FleK
Awe F'shore
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The responsibility is ours to take it
> back. Starting here, at home.
> http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14086"
>
> At that link is a bunch of suggestions for 'fixing things'. One of
their
> suggestions is, and I quote:
>
> "The Tobin tax, a proposed small tax on currency transactions, would
calm
> financial markets, protect developing countries, and generate billions
of
> dollars to address global poverty. (See www.waronwant.org.)"
>
> I quoted back, exclaiming "TOBIN TAX?" and "waronwant?" and you 'call
me on
> it". Fuck man, you *could* have just said, "Yeah, war on want, you
gotta
> problem with that"...but as we can see, liberals are embarassed to be
> liberals. You act like it's not even there. You may not like the
label,
> but if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and wants to
change our
> system to socialism like a duck....
> _FleK
Is that anything like:
walks like a dog
snarls and barks like a dog
licks his masters ass like a dog
licks his own ass like a dog
<try www.mintyass.com >
gets whipped into a frenzy like a good little dog
sprouts a little woody at all the war talk like a dog
and wants to further erode our systems freedoms like a dog?
yep, I thought so.
You live in a world of self delusion dude, at least it appears so here.
L8
FleK
>
> Is that anything like:
> walks like a dog
> snarls and barks like a dog
> licks his masters ass like a dog
I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your dog, but I'm
pretty sure it's against nature.
> <try www.mintyass.com >
> gets whipped into a frenzy like a good little dog
> sprouts a little woody at all the war talk like a dog
I love peace as only a soldier can.
> and wants to further erode our systems freedoms like a dog?
Oh yeah, I'm all about eroding freedoms!...Except the ones you use to bleed
all over this newsgroup. =]
> yep, I thought so.
>
> You live in a world of self delusion dude, at least it appears so here.
w00t! I've pushed you to use 'dude', 'hitler' references, and canine
ass-licking...this must be the tri-fecta of owning someone on a
newsgroup....and to think, all I did was post back what you wrote. Are you
this fun at parties? Are you for hire? Can I get you to wear big red
shoes?
_FleK
Neal Miyake
> This would be a good page for the HUB...who wants to pull it together?
>
> I can arrange the FTP access for the owner...
For the AS History page, I tried finding out who was voted ASKOTY through
the years. As Tim mentioned, there are always nominations, but never a
consensus decision.
sponge
Tim Maddux
> For the AS History page, I tried finding out who was voted ASKOTY through
> the years. As Tim mentioned, there are always nominations, but never a
> consensus decision.
Exactly! Nominations, and people posting "you are ASKOTY!"
"no, YOU are!" And when you ask "who was ASKOTY for year ____?"
you mainly get responses from people w/ a conflict of interest.
That's it. I'm moving to Florida.
--
Tim Maddux, Postdoctoral Investigator, WHOI
.-``'. "Absolute macrocosmic metaphysical truth is unalterably
.` .`~ and indisputibly on my side for all eternity and then
_.-' '._ some, you know, okay?"