6 3 opener
Dennis Cartwright
it slots a valuable point, it only leaves one blot, and it doesn't commit
you to a running game, but I never see anyone but me do it.
Dennis
Chase
This play is quite a bit worse than 24/18 13/10 or even 24/15. The
reason is that it costs so much when the checker is hit (almost 40% of
the time). Getting hit costs you 30 pips in the race--the 9 you
started with, plus 21 more--and robs you of half your next roll. So
unless you enter with doubles, you're now way behind in the race, and
you're behind two rolls in development. That's not much to show after
winning the advantage of the opening roll. And even when it works it
doesn't always work. When the blot is missed, you fail to cover it 25%
of the time--double jeopardy.
Chase
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To respond via email, replace "USERNAME" with "demiga" in my address.
Walter Trice
"Dennis Cartwright" <dori...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:uafj622...@corp.supernews.com...
The main flaw in the idea is that you are slotting with a checker that might
otherwise have had a productive future in your outfield. The more common
opening slots pull a man off the 6 onto a point that it was already destined
for.
Other objections are more 'typical': the usual objections to slotting
(possible loss in the race, loss of tempo), the fact that there is a nice
alternative (24/18, 13/10) that does two good things instead of just one,
the importance of activating the back men in the opening...
13/4 was never popular (though it has been played by lots of people,
including me) but 13/5 with an opening 6-2 used to be almost standard (and
for a while Bill Robertie was even playing 13/5 with 5-3.) The reasons why
all the top players gradually turned against it are basically the same as
the things I don't like about 13/4 with 6-3.
-- Walter Trice
spurs
Other's have outlined the main reasons for not slotting the 4.... seems
pretty basic to me.
I HAVE done it, in fact used to do it as a matter of course.......
however... it is certainly weaker..... I maybe would play it nowadays only
in desperation (say down 5-0 in a 7 pointer!) against a much "weaker" player
to try and get complex positions from which to wreak my superior stength!
sic!
The running play is ok from leading a match cos it merely loses the opening
roll advantage if hit and requires the use of a possibly better 3 to hit.
The obvious advantage of having the builder on the 10point and the potential
complication of the "return" hit possibilities at the opponents bar outweigh
every other consideration IMHO, whatever the bots say!
--
----- spurs º¿º
Roy @ Oxnard, California
spur...@verizon.net
www.dock.net/spurs
http:dock.net/spurs
"Making a living is NOT the same as making a life"
Roy Passfield...1999
"Dennis Cartwright" <dori...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:uafj622...@corp.supernews.com...
Dennis Cartwright
will occasionally make this play against a weak player or to put a "strong"
player on tilt.
D
Irentem
I've had success with this, but I look forward to hearing
how foolish this move is for an opening 6 3
24/18 24/21
I usually get hit, but only on one blot. Often, when I get hit,
my opponent leaves a blot. I can often hit that when I'm
coming off the bar, and now I have the pip advantage, as I
entered from where I started, but my opponent is starting
back in my home board.
If my opponent roll doubles, or I cannot re-enter with a funky
2nd. roll, I'm in trouble, but with very little defense to
stop me this early in the game, I usually take an advantage.
Flawed?
Mark
Dennis Cartwright <dori...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:uafj622...@corp.supernews.com...
Ryan Long
> I'm going to cement my status as an novice here.
> I've had success with this, but I look forward to hearing
> how foolish this move is for an opening 6 3
> 24/18 24/21
I think this is called the 'middle Eastern split,' or something to that
effect. It used to be popular.
> I usually get hit, but only on one blot. Often, when I get hit,
And I think this is one of the reasons why it has fallen out of favor.
> my opponent leaves a blot. I can often hit that when I'm
> coming off the bar, and now I have the pip advantage, as I
> entered from where I started, but my opponent is starting
> back in my home board.
On the other hand, your opponent wants to hit you on the 21. He doesn't
want to hit you on the 24. You've already moved one of your back checkers
out to the 18, and you've got good coverage on that point from the 24
should your opponent hit you loose. Why not do something else good for
your position rather than moving the other back checker? If you move
13/10, you've got a new builder on offense.
I'm no expert, but that's why I don't play the move you've described.
Derek Ray
Ryan Long <rlo...@emerald.tufts.edu> mumbled something about:
>Irentem <ire...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> I'm going to cement my status as an novice here.
>> I've had success with this, but I look forward to hearing
>> how foolish this move is for an opening 6 3
>> 24/18 24/21
>
>On the other hand, your opponent wants to hit you on the 21. He doesn't
>want to hit you on the 24. You've already moved one of your back checkers
>out to the 18, and you've got good coverage on that point from the 24
>should your opponent hit you loose. Why not do something else good for
>your position rather than moving the other back checker? If you move
>13/10, you've got a new builder on offense.
Also, this little gotcha: If you play 13/10 and get hit on the 18, then
6's are suddenly great for you. If you play 24/21 instead, get hit, and
roll one 6, you don't have any good plays at all -- bar/X 21/15 just
gives your opponent a chance to bring a builder down with gain of a
tempo, and any other move of that checker (bar/X X/?) looks just like
21/15, but on a different outfield point. 13-7 is what you already
passed up playing on the FIRST 6, so you don't want to play it now, and
bar/X 8-2 just sucks.
-- Derek
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
- C. Darwin, 1871
Chase
To which I will add that your opponent has 9 numbers which point on
one blot or the other, and 10 more which double hit.
Daniel Hollis
> I'm going to cement my status as an novice here.
>
> I've had success with this, but I look forward to hearing
> how foolish this move is for an opening 6 3
>
> 24/18 24/21
>
> I usually get hit, but only on one blot.
First, I want to point out that only 55 and 35 miss, so it's almost
always that you get hit. And you will get hit twice a lot more than
you think. I love it when my oppoent does this, because a double hit
is so powerful. Count the number of rolls that miss hitting twice. I
get 32, 34, 35, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55. That's 21/36 double hits.
A big problem with getting hit is that you allow your opponent to slot
a key point. And if he hits back on your 4 point, then it's only a
single shot from the bar; other inner board hits are ususally shots
from the bar+24 point.
Once your opponent attacks one of these men, then the second man
becomes a piece of cheese, still sitting on a point your opponent
would like. If you missed your return shot, that's awful. Your
opponent is moving his checkers into attack position, and meanwhile
you're stuck on his 4 or bar point. You can alternatively spend the
first 4 dice of your game throwing your back checkers into your
opponent's outfield. Either choice stinks.
Dan
Chase
Hollis) wrote:
|"Irentem" <ire...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<a8b86h$9am$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...
|> I'm going to cement my status as an novice here.
|>
|> I've had success with this, but I look forward to hearing
|> how foolish this move is for an opening 6 3
|>
|> 24/18 24/21
|>
|> I usually get hit, but only on one blot.
|
|First, I want to point out that only 55 and 35 miss, so it's almost
|always that you get hit.
31, if played correctly (8/5 6/5), also misses.
|And you will get hit twice a lot more than
|you think. I love it when my oppoent does this, because a double hit
|is so powerful. Count the number of rolls that miss hitting twice. I
|get 32, 34, 35, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55. That's 21/36 double hits.
The double hitting numbers are 21, 33, 41, 62, 63, and 64, for a total
of 11/36 double hits. 20 numbers single hit.
Win At Betting
>it slots a valuable point, it only leaves one blot, and it doesn't commit
>you to a running game, but I never see anyone but me do it.
I think there's a reason!
Actually, I'd say 24-14 accomplishes progress with the same risk of being hit
by a three, only not as deep in enemy territory.
Ray Gordon, GENIUS
www.cybersheet.com
Ryan Long
1.It leaves a direct shot on a point your opponent wants
2.It slots the 4 with the wrong checker. Use the checkers on the 13 to
build outer board points first. Using it immediately on the inner board
leaves you with less builders for your outer board. This isn't always
true (5-5 exception), but i think it's true when you're talking about
slotting on your opening roll.
3.When you get hit, you have literally nothing left to show for your
opener. You haven't split, you haven't brought down any builders.
4.When the opponent hits you, unless you roll 4-4 or 2-2 (2/36) there are
no good rolls that hit him back; hitting him leaves yet another direct
shot. This is not the case when you play 6-3 24/18 13/10; you have much
more appealing rolls to hit him back from that position.
Donald Kahn
wrote:
Opening plays that slot the 5 point (2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 6-2) which were
very stylish 20 years ago, have gone out of favor. It has been
decided that loss of ground in the race is more important than we
thought at that time. Just so with plays like 13/4 - and 13/8 6/4
with the horrible 5-2, which looked kind of attractive - have also
been ruled out.
dk
Ryan Long
> Opening plays that slot the 5 point (2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 6-2) which were
> very stylish 20 years ago, have gone out of favor. It has been
Is this equally true for 5-1?
I usually slot the 5 with that opening roll, but I'd love to hear why that
is incorrect.
spurs
equity calculations and roll-outs performed by the varios bots both in
training and OTB over millions of games........ however...... when playing
an inferior (i.e. lower rated... sic!) player the slotting plays make for
more complex and volatile positions which MAY be to the advantage of the
better player... especially in matches where the inferior player is leading.
(don't try it in money games or chouettes... the inferior rating MAY be a
"come-on".
Note that when the bot calculates equity or does roll-outs it does assume
best play (in the bot's opinion) by both players which of course may not be
true in matches between humans.
I think the playing level for each player can be adjusted in GNU for
roll-outs... but I am not sure that adjusted levels produce such
"inconsistencies" as we may encounter with human play!
--
----- spurs º¿º
Roy @ Oxnard, California
spur...@verizon.net
www.dock.net/spurs
"Making a living is NOT the same as making a life"
Roy Passfield...1999
"Ryan Long" <rlo...@emerald.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:ttGx8.120$641....@news.tufts.edu...
Donald Kahn
Well, the rollouts done by the bots say that it is inferior. But to
tell the truth, I often slot with 2-1, unless playing with the
markedly superior opponent, and sometimes with 5-1 also. (I don't
slot with 4-1 because I will be hit 50% of the time, and that's too
much.)
I like the kind of game that results from these plays.
My rationale is this: I may be giving up half a percent in the game,
but the other errors I am sure to make, will swamp this trifle.
dk
Allen
Speaking of 62 and 63 openers, I always like to play 24/18 and 13/11 or 13/10
respectively. If my blot on 18 is hit I usually have a direct shot in return, and I
like having the extra builder in my outer court. Moving a blot 24/16 or 24/15 in an
opening roll (like alot of books recommend) just doesn't seem to be as effective for
me.. Opponent has a direct shot on that blot and if hit I gain nothing and only have an
indirect return shot.
Thoughts?
L8r.. allen
spurs
the one point can't reach it with the second die number! But they are both
indirect shots.
A direct shot can be hit with any one of your numbers... the indirect shot
requires the use of BOTH numbers...... in your 18 point case.... one number
to enter and the second to hit.... hopefully!
--
----- spurs º¿º
Roy @ Oxnard, California
spur...@verizon.net
www.dock.net/spurs
"Making a living is NOT the same as making a life"
Roy Passfield...1999
"Allen" <all...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:EF22849C4A3188C7.CB695021...@lp.airnews.net...