CryptIRC / Enigma
Ulrich Staudinger
CryptIRC is now called enigma, as enigma sounds better.
Enigma, the java application irc client, is ready for download at www.die-horde.de .
Enigma features include:
Multiple server connections
SSL implementation
multi party Peer-to-Peer encryption
skinning
download and post your oppinion in the support forum.
regards and thanks for critics in advance,
chicago
Chaz
news:be6c8872.01090...@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> regards and thanks for critics in advance,
> chicago
Wrong group. Please read the alt.irc charter.
Regards, Chris.
Ulrich Staudinger
>Wrong group. Please read the alt.irc charter.
>
>Regards, Chris.
>
>
>
right group, please resurrect someone alt.irc.announce.
--
Ulrich Staudinger
Chaz
> right group, please resurrect someone alt.irc.announce.
>
> --
> Ulrich Staudinger
Ulrich, you do not decide what is appropriate for this group. Please read
Ulrich Staudinger
Hi Chris,
i already read the alt.irc charter:
Newsgroup Charters
------------------
Each IRC newsgroup has its own focus, although that is
not always recorded in a charter. The newsgroup name
itself gives you the best indication of what the group
is for and the descriptions above define generally
what is and isn't considered acceptable.
Adverts of any nature are frowned upon in all
but alt.irc.networks and possibly alt.irc.servers
Commercial adverts are considered off-topic in
all of the alt.irc.* groups.
Signatures should be prefixed with two hyphens on a
seperate line and should not exceed 4 lines.
------
Adverts of any type. As advertising is a commercial expression and
something can only be advertised if there is a commercial background, the
announcement of a free IRC chat client has nothing to do with Advertising.
Btw, commercial adverts are considered OFF-Topic, and not not allowed.
As CryptIRC/Enigma is neither a network nor a server, where to go?
This software is definitely stronger IRC related than several other
discussions.
I think announcing a cross platform chat client with SSL implementation is
more important than discussions of New Irc Networks, as SSL definitely
pushes IRC to a new era. (i.e. possibility to certificate and authenticate
users)
let's go on.
--
Ulrich
Contention
>Adverts of any type. As advertising is a commercial expression and
>something can only be advertised if there is a commercial background, the
>announcement of a free IRC chat client has nothing to do with Advertising.
That's splitting hairs. You must know as well as I do that you were
advertising, you simply prefer not to admit it.
To be perfectly clear, let me contribute the following text (you can
find all of this online at www.m-w.com)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advertisement:
=------------=
Main Entry: ad暇er暗ise搶ent
Pronunciation: "ad-v&r-'tIz-m&nt; &d-'v&r-t&z-m&nt, -t&-sm&nt
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : the act or process of advertising
2 : a public notice; especially : one published in the press or
broadcast over the air
Advertising
=---------=
Main Entry: ad暇er暗ise
Pronunciation: 'ad-v&r-"tIz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -tised; -tis搏ng
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French advertiss-, stem of
advertir
Date: 15th century
transitive senses
1 : to make something known to : NOTIFY
2 a : to make publicly and generally known <advertising their readiness
to make concessions> b : to announce publicly especially by a printed
notice or a broadcast c : to call public attention to especially by
emphasizing desirable qualities so as to arouse a desire to buy or
patronize : PROMOTE
intransitive senses : to issue or sponsor advertising
- ad暇er暗is搪r noun
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that the very text you quoted goes on to talk about commercial
adverts; *it* quite clearly does not regard only commercial
advertisements as off topic.
I really have nothing against you advertising the client, but I was
drawn by your attempt to manipulate the facts. :)
Contention.
--
Andrew J. Shore
Polynomian ("Many names, no personality") [DragonCode on request]
Interests: Maths, Dragons, Science Fiction & Fantasy, Anime, Computing,
et cetera, et-bloody-cetera. Quote: <whine>"I'm tired"</whine>
Ulrich Staudinger
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Note that the very text you quoted goes on to talk about commercial
>adverts; *it* quite clearly does not regard only commercial
>advertisements as off topic.
>
> I really have nothing against you advertising the client, but I was
>drawn by your attempt to manipulate the facts. :)
>
>
>Contention.
Ok, let's change the word...
Let's say, i announced the client. Maybe we have a different understanding
between advertising and announcing in .de ....
(Example: Buy a fish! / come here, we have food for free!)
so the charter distinguishes between commercial and non commercial
advertisement.
a question is still unanswered, where to go with client announcements?
.network and .server are definitely the wrong place, .scripts is a good
place for scripts. .announce is offline.
To come back to the charter:
the charter differentiates general and commercial advertisement. The
charter does not not regard noncommercial as Off-topic. Or don't i get the
sense of frowning?
btw, online webster rocks!
--
Ulrich
Contention
>a question is still unanswered, where to go with client announcements?
>.network and .server are definitely the wrong place, .scripts is a good
>place for scripts. .announce is offline.
Hardcore protesters would give you a short answer: nowhere! The
sneaky way to short-circuit all this is to make it a general IRC
discussion, which happens to revolve around the client. If I ever get
around to writing up the mySQL-integrated-services ircd code I've put
together, I will be soliciting renewed (we've already been discussing
it) comments on the viability of the experiment. :)
Phrase it the right way, you generate useful discussion, not
complaints. Not that you won't get complaints anyway.
>To come back to the charter:
>the charter differentiates general and commercial advertisement. The
>charter does not not regard noncommercial as Off-topic. Or don't i get the
>sense of frowning?
As I read it, all commercial advertisements are off-topic in
alt.irc.*. Any advertisement, anywhere except perhaps in
alt.irc.networks or alt.irc.servers, is going to upset people.
Chaz
news:b8oQDJAI...@soaring.demon.co.uk...
> Hardcore protesters would give you a short answer: nowhere! The
> sneaky way to short-circuit all this is to make it a general IRC
> discussion, which happens to revolve around the client. If I ever get
> around to writing up the mySQL-integrated-services ircd code I've put
> together, I will be soliciting renewed (we've already been discussing
> it) comments on the viability of the experiment. :)
>
Just curious, what service[s] are you writing this for, or are you basing
this on an ircd which already has integrated services?
David Schwartz
> a question is still unanswered, where to go with client announcements?
> .network and .server are definitely the wrong place, .scripts is a good
> place for scripts. .announce is offline.
Use any forum where it's on-topic, don't use forums where it's
off-topic. That's the answer to any question of the form "where should I
post X?" Where should I go with posts about dyslexic Siamese midget
wrestlers?
DS
Ulrich Staudinger
>sneaky way to short-circuit all this is to make it a general IRC
>discussion, which happens to revolve around the client. If I ever get
>around to writing up the mySQL-integrated-services ircd code I've put
>together, I will be soliciting renewed (we've already been discussing
>it) comments on the viability of the experiment. :)
>
Hey! that sounds interesting! ... :)
Really! Tell me more! What sort of enhancement is this? User statistics?
btw, 0.51 is out (with many many many bugs removed) ... *g... ok .. i won't
do this any more ... maybe i will write a post around the time version 1.0
final is be out.
--
Ulrich Staudinger
Oh god, i am a kid today !!!
David Schwartz
> Use any forum where it's on-topic, don't use forums where it's
> off-topic. That's the answer to any question of the form "where should I
> post X?" Where should I go with posts about dyslexic Siamese midget
> wrestlers?
By the way, for the record, I think that client announcements (that
honestly are of general interest to the IRC community) are perfectly
on-topic here. The problem is, I don't know of a good way to say that
without opening the floodgates of me-too scripters.
DS
David Schwartz
> right group, please resurrect someone alt.irc.announce.
YES! Please do that!
DS
Ulrich Staudinger
<3B97FABE...@webmaster.com>:
ok, i will take care of this and send an email to my provider ....
--
Ulrich
Ulrich Staudinger
>
>ok, i will take care of this and send an email to my provider ....
>
*g ... if thats all there is to do ....
--
Ulrich
Contention
>Just curious, what service[s] are you writing this for, or are you basing
>this on an ircd which already has integrated services?
Immediate question: Are you aware of an ircd that has *properly*
integrated services, and if so, which? It's impossible to keep up with
the entire field, small as it is, so just yell if you know something I
don't. That way I won't waste my time reinventing the wheel.
No particular services; the idea is not to integrate external
services (though it was vaguely tempting to have a go at that; too high
a maintenance overhead for too little gain), but to write integrated
code that could, after suitable development, take the place of those
services.
"External" services are those which run on a particular host,
connecting to one or more servers as false servers or bots. The ideal
design under present circumstances has to be one which is distributed
over the entire network. This is a separate point to the use of a mySQL
database to store the services data. The storage requirement, in fact,
made implementation a much more troubling task.
I've got (will have by the time you read this) a single page up at
http://www.soaring.demon.co.uk/hydra/
which might help explain things (or maybe it'll just confuse
people). I welcome suggestions, calls for further clarification, or even
calls for my head on a pole. ;)
I don't have the resources to properly test the weaknesses of the
design, which will only show up when servers are connected across a
network. I could get people to lend me box-space, but getting them to
let me play with their mySQL servers might stretch my powers of
persuasion. So I'm still extremely hesitant about the overall scheme,
even though on a single server it works nicely.
Jeremy Nelson
>i already read the alt.irc charter:
>
>Newsgroup Charters
>------------------
>Each IRC newsgroup has its own focus, although that is
>not always recorded in a charter. The newsgroup name
>itself gives you the best indication of what the group
>is for and the descriptions above define generally
>what is and isn't considered acceptable.
>Adverts of any nature are frowned upon in all
>but alt.irc.networks and possibly alt.irc.servers
>
>Commercial adverts are considered off-topic in
>all of the alt.irc.* groups.
>
>Signatures should be prefixed with two hyphens on a
>seperate line and should not exceed 4 lines.
What is your source for this "charter"? Please provide a URL source.
This charter does not look like the original one, but rather is a more
recent one which renders it illegitimite, null and void.
The original charter for alt.irc had no restrictions on what was on-topic
for the group. Reporting announcements to alt.irc to an isp is itself
greivous network abuse. All IRC topics are on-topic in alt.irc and always
have been since 1989, notwithstanding the wishes of some malcontents here.
-Jacob
Ulrich Staudinger
>What is your source for this "charter"? Please provide a URL source.
>This charter does not look like the original one, but rather is a more
>recent one which renders it illegitimite, null and void.
>
>The original charter for alt.irc had no restrictions on what was on-topic
>for the group. Reporting announcements to alt.irc to an isp is itself
>greivous network abuse. All IRC topics are on-topic in alt.irc and always
>have been since 1989, notwithstanding the wishes of some malcontents here.
>
>-Jacob
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=FAQ&hl=en&group=alt.irc.*
&rnum=1&selm=3b90171a_1%40nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net
stitch the link ...
--
Ulrich
Jacob News
>>The original charter for alt.irc had no restrictions on what was on-topic
>>for the group. Reporting announcements to alt.irc to an isp is itself
>>greivous network abuse. All IRC topics are on-topic in alt.irc and always
>>have been since 1989, notwithstanding the wishes of some malcontents here.
Ulrich Staudinger <stau...@alpha.fh-furtwangen.de> wrote:
>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=FAQ&hl=en&group=alt.irc.*
>&rnum=1&selm=3b90171a_1%40nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net
>
>stitch the link ...
That's a usenet posting, not a charter. Peas is no more of the authority
on the charter of alt.irc than my dead cat. If making a posting here is
all that it takes to make an official charter, then I'll have a stab at it:
The Official Charter for Alt.IRC -- to be binding on everybody forevermore
because I, the ruler of this newsgroup, say so:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* All posts which relate or refer to IRC topics are on topic.
* Flames and trolls and other forms of verbal sparring are on topic as long
as the poster is engaged in a legitimate game of "one-upmanship".
* Posts by non-irc users for non-irc topics are deprecated.
* Posts by Viper are always off topic. This is not because I say so, but
is just a general statement of the obvious.
EYE HAVE SPOKEN! MEYE WURD IHS LAHW!
-Jacob
Contention
>What is your source for this "charter"? Please provide a URL source.
>This charter does not look like the original one, but rather is a more
>recent one which renders it illegitimite, null and void.
The FAQ may not agree entirely with the charter - a suggestion you
have not provided any evidence for - yet it *is* the legitimate
reference for the alt.irc hierarchy, representing the views of the
majority of the users. The charter is a (lost, as far as I can tell)
historical curiosity.
All responsible ISPs require their users to pay at least lip service
to netiquette, and not offend large numbers of people by posting
material where it is not welcome.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/irc/irc-newsgroup-faq/
>The original charter for alt.irc had no restrictions on what was on-topic
>for the group. Reporting announcements to alt.irc to an isp is itself
>greivous network abuse. All IRC topics are on-topic in alt.irc and always
>have been since 1989, notwithstanding the wishes of some malcontents here.
Again, you offer no proof of your claims - perhaps you can post a
URL source? I wouldn't mind finding the charter :> - nor is your
argument compelling. YOU ARE ALL WRONG is not going to convince anyone.
Finally, reporting offensive material is not at all abusive. It is
up to the ISP in question to determine whether or not their AUP has been
violated.
Jacob News
>>What is your source for this "charter"? Please provide a URL source.
>>This charter does not look like the original one, but rather is a more
>>recent one which renders it illegitimite, null and void.
Contention <Conte...@soaring.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The FAQ may not agree entirely with the charter - a suggestion you
>have not provided any evidence for - yet it *is* the legitimate
>reference for the alt.irc hierarchy, representing the views of the
>majority of the users. The charter is a (lost, as far as I can tell)
>historical curiosity.
There is no evidence I can give because there was no charter before peas
decided to declare one by fiat in what was it -- 1998? The newsgroup has
been around since 1992, and from 1992 to 1998 there was no charter and no
discussions of what was and was not off-topic and if google/deja were to
ever have reasonable archives of those days, you would see things going on
here that would positively make your hair fall out compared to the uninspired
pablum that passes for posts here today. Server advertisements were not
considered "spam" or "off-topic" until viper decided by his own lonesome
self to start reporting people in 1998. As far as I know, nobody else has
ever reported server advertisements as "spam" and admitted to it publicly
except for a few crackpots who have come and gone. Viper stands pretty
much alone in his crusade to make himself look like a total raving lunatic.
All this "charter" stuff is so much hand-waving. Somehow the newsgroup
managed to survive without peas's illegitimiate "charter" and I for one
was here eons before peas was and I absolutely refuse to kowtow to his
self-imposed feel-good rules.
Viper, on the other hand -- he's got a history on alt.irc that embarrasingly
exposes his anti-server-ad charade as a charlatan and fraud. Check out how
he started here in google/dejanews if they go back that far. He's so
unrelentingly two-faced, it would be off-topic *not* to mock him.
I warned you all about peas and viper -- but you all wouldn't listen.
Now see what you've let the group devolve into. I am truly ashamed of
you all.
I am not here to engage in intellectually stimulating philisophical
discussions, so don't try to trick me in one. I am here to entertain
myself and whoever else finds my off-kilter tripe amusing. If you find me
unfunny, I only suggest that you try to find it in your heart to get a
sense of humor and to ignore me.
And if anybody here thinks I take this seriously, you definitely need to
get a real hobby.
-Jacob/Jeremy/hop (the three-headed psuedonym)
Contention
>And if anybody here thinks I take this seriously, you definitely need to
>get a real hobby.
That makes you a ... troll? O:)
You manage to pick all the points that have caused trouble here,
when we've more or less beaten ourselves into a state of truce, and try
to reopen the debate. I don't think we're interested. I hope not...
MJ Ray
> [...] The newsgroup has been around since 1992, and from 1992 to
> 1998 there was no charter and no discussions of what was and was not
> off-topic [...]
There appears to have been no justification or charter in either of
the newgroup messages I can lay my hands on.
From ne...@tumif.UUCP Wed Jun 19 22:10:57 1991
Path: rpi!think.com!samsung!caen!ox.com!math.fu-berlin.de!fub!ivcmd!tumif!news
From: ne...@tumif.UUCP (News-Administrator)
Newsgroups: alt.irc.ctl
Subject: newgroup alt.irc
Message-ID: <8...@tumif.UUCP>
Date: 18 Jun 91 20:12:21 GMT
Control: newgroup alt.irc
Distribution: UniDo
Organization: IVC Magdeburg
Approved: we...@tumif.UUCP
From st...@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU Sun Apr 26 12:34:29 1992
Path: rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!decwrl!bu.edu!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!gandalf!steve
From: st...@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU (Steve E. Goldsmith)
Newsgroups: alt.irc.ctl
Subject: newgroup alt.irc
Message-ID: <15...@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU>
Date: 25 Apr 92 23:13:00 GMT
Control: newgroup alt.irc
Distribution: umcs
Organization: University of Maine Department of Computer Science
Approved: st...@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU
[from ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/control/alt/alt.irc]
> And if anybody here thinks I take this seriously, you definitely need to
> get a real hobby.
Indeed. It's free for all in alt.irc... drinks are free, too.
--
MJR Thesis watch: 27%
This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to
I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/
Contention
>[from ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/control/alt/alt.irc]
Hm, thanks. I was looking for that.
Ian Westcott
: Jacob News <jn...@epicsol.org> wrote:
:>And if anybody here thinks I take this seriously, you definitely need to
:>get a real hobby.
: That makes you a ... troll? O:)
Oh come on, the history of alt.irc is filled with the postings of
colorful trolls. :) They make the group what it is, but the art of
starting a flamewar is so dead these days...
--
Ian Westcott Rakarra@IRC
rak...@pacbell.net