Coast-2-Coast
Bot Girl
filling my head, and I need a reality check. How long does it take, etc.?
I'm in NY.
No way do I believe that driving as opposed to flying will save me money. In
fact, it probably costs more because you have meals, gas, tolls, yada-yada.
But there is probably no better way to see CA.
Anybody here ever do the 3,000 mile trek? A very wide interstate from coast
to cast would be ideal. My driving at the moment is limited to local trips.
Ilene
Gordon Fisher
Bot Girl wrote:
Last time I did a coast to coast it took about 7 days, doing about 4-500 miles a
day. I was driving a moving van at the time, so that's about all that I could
do. I had a friend who did CA to near Pittsburg in about 40 hours. Look ma no
sleep.
The only reason to drive unless you have to is to see the countryside.
Excellent reason. We drove from Florida to California many years ago. This was
via, New Orleans, Nashville, Indianapolis, Chicago, Wyoming, Yellowstone and
Reno. Not direct, and it took us a month, but unforgettable.
So for costs, figure hotels, 3 meals, and two tanks of gas a day. Add a
thousand or so just in case money,( Our tranny went out three days before the
trip, and we had a flat tire in Indiana) and some playing money. See what you
can afford, and where you've always wanted to visit.
Doug C.
1976. Great trip.
Coast to coast? Go for it girl. As long as you have GOOD! wheels under
you, the rest of the costs can be as minimal or large as you want. We
"camped" most of the time. Sometimes in campgrounds. Sometimes not.
Different world now in a lot of ways than 1976. Be safe. Other than
that, take as much time as you can. See as much as you can. Enjoy.
Goodluck.
Doug
bear...@cruller.invalid
Bot Girl <i_r...@spamcop.net> wrote:
Done it four times (round trip) straight through. Took about three days
each way. Always had friends along for company/driving help.
A few times driving cross country, we took our sweet lazy time and then
we always took side roads instead of the interstates. That was really a
lot of fun, even when we got lost. One unforgettable time on the way to
California out of Denver, we wound up in Kansas (actual quote: "Um, I
don't think they grow this much corn in Utah..."; another actual quote:
"Why is the sun coming up in FRONT of us?":-)
I also hitchhiked across country (NJ-CA, NY-OR, and FL-WA) several
times, but that was years ago and there were lots of other souls doing
the same thing. Got occasional tours of small-town jails. Was always
treated okay though. There wasn't much fear then, and I met a lot of
really good people I'm proud to have travelled with, and with whom I'm
still friends.
I don't know what it would be like to do any of that today. Things are
different now.
The Real Bev
>
> Best trip I ever did was 11,000 miles, 30 states, over 3 1/2 months.
> 1976. Great trip.
> Coast to coast? Go for it girl. As long as you have GOOD! wheels under
> you, the rest of the costs can be as minimal or large as you want. We
> "camped" most of the time. Sometimes in campgrounds. Sometimes not.
> Different world now in a lot of ways than 1976. Be safe. Other than
> that, take as much time as you can. See as much as you can. Enjoy.
> Goodluck.
Done it many times. Fastest was 3 days of constant driving, swapping
drivers when one fell asleep. Not a good way to see things, of course.
1. Forget interstates if you possibly can. Federal and state highways are
just fine for the most part.
2. Stock up on maps at the Auto Club. Remember, they're there to serve
YOU!
3. Go across one way and return the other.
4. Cities are all alike and are only places to stock up on stuff that you
need.
5. Essential places:
Utah
Craters of the Moon
Capitol Reef
Monument Valley
The Exploratorium in San Francisco
Death Valley
The redwoods
Glacier Nat Park
Yosemite
Highway 1
Bryce Canyon
Yellowstone
Probably lots more, and most of them are on the road between these places.
6. If you have to economize, buy food at supermarkets and sleep in your
car if you can. Remember, you don't NEED a shower every day :-) Hint for
getting better motel prices: Go in and ask the clerk where you can find
the CHEAP motels.
> Bot Girl wrote:
> >
> > Thoughts of doing the Jack Kerouac thing and driving cross-country are
> > filling my head, and I need a reality check. How long does it take, etc.?
> > I'm in NY.
> >
> > No way do I believe that driving as opposed to flying will save me money. In
> > fact, it probably costs more because you have meals, gas, tolls, yada-yada.
> > But there is probably no better way to see CA.
Few tolls away from the east coast.
> > Anybody here ever do the 3,000 mile trek? A very wide interstate from coast
> > to cast would be ideal. My driving at the moment is limited to local trips.
> >
> > Ilene
--
Cheers,
Bev
*****************************************************************
"...and then I'll become a veterinarian because I love children."
-- Julie Brown
Mark Folsom
news:B6DA6827.797A%i_r...@spamcop.net...
We moved from VT to CA in 1985 and drove I-80 on the way out, except for
cutting down to Lake Tahoe and taking US 50 from there to Sacramento. Salt
Lake City is actually rather nicely situated--stay in the Little America
tower if you can. Eight days with small kids when speed limits were 55 max.
Then in 1995, we did the round trip from Carmel to Sugarbush VT and back:
Carmel to Las Vegas to Zion NP (really spectacular) to the North Rim of the
Grand Canyon (where it snowed in June) to Page AZ to Vermilion Cliffs and
Monument Valley to Moab UT and Arches NP and up along the flooding Colorado
to Grand Junction then down to Aspen to visit my friend Ed Zasacky then over
Independence Pass to Limon and then on east to Virginia and up 81 to New
England. On the way back, we went through some of Quebec and Ontario and
down through Sault Ste. Marie to get to WI, and then cut down and across to
the Badlands and the Black Hills in South Dakota and across back roads in
Wyoming to get to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons (a place to go back to
again and again) then up to Glacier NP (a fabulously beautiful place) and
over and down to Coeur d'Alene then over to Mount Ranier and Seattle then
down through Oregon and down the North Coast of CA to home.
In the summer of '99 we flew to MA and bought a diesel New Beetle and drove
it home going under the Great Lakes (mistake to go by Chicago cause IL
charges little tolls and makes you stop to pay them about every mile and a
half) to WI and then across ND (huge fields of sunflowers all facing you in
the morning) and back down to Yellowstone and Tetons from the north through
Billings MT through beautiful high mountain passes. Rented a little boat
and had a picnic on Jackson Lake with the Tetons and their reflection
filling our eyes (heaven might be superfluous), headed down to Ogden and
then tried to cross NV via US 6 (wow is that a remote and lonely road). A
summer thunderstorm dictated otherwise (the New Beetle isn't much for
all-terrain travel) and we had to backtrack 100 miles to get up to Eureka NV
on US 50. Back through Lake Tahoe (it's tough duty but someone has to do
it).
January 2000 my brother found me such a good deal on a used 540i (6 speed, 7
grand below book) that I just had to fly back and buy it. We drove it home
from Newburgh NY through Manassas (niece), VA Beach (brother), Raleigh NC
(friends), barely got out of Raleigh between an ice storm and their 20 inch
snow storm, wanted to go to Atlanta (niece) but couldn't because of ice
storm, and diverted to Savannah (great little seafood place in the historic
district just by luck), and down to Jacksonville instead. Then we went on
in the pouring rain to New Orleans for a couple of days with my nephew
Russell and did the French Quarter and had some good cuisine. Off again to
Houston, San Antonio (Riverwalk is pretty neat), through El Paso (lonely
stretches of I-10 in West Texas were the setting of my first excursion to
140 mph). By then we were just sick of Texas and drove on to Las Cruces NM
to sleep (neat little town, by the way). Cut home via Phoenix and up the
back way to Kingman and came across via I-40, CA 58 and 198 from Coalinga to
San Lucas and home.
June 2000 went East via I-40 as far as Memphis--Flagstaff AZ, Tucumcari NM,
Fort Smith AR, Memphis and then up to NY and New England to do the family
thing. On the way back, we drove to Rochester NY and then up to Niagara
Falls and then stayed at the Westin on the Harbor in Toronto. From there we
went quickly across above the Great Lakes, staying in Sault Ste. Marie ON,
Thunder Bay ON, Regina SK, and then did the Alberta side of the Canadian
Rockies--Waterton Lakes, Banff, Lake Louise, Athabasca Glacier, Jasper NP,
etc. We then cut over to Kamloops BC and down into WA, OR and CA again.
I haven't regretted an inch of it. This summer we plan to go east via US 6
and I-70 and see Vail and Rocky Mountain NP and I'm not sure how we'll come
back, but it's almost certain to include Jackson WY.
Do it.
Mark Folsom
ric...@my-deja.com
They'll spend 6-12 months driving around the country, taking it easy.
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Marc Warden
Do it.
How long it takes depends on several factors, how often you stop for gas, food,
bio-breaks, etc., the number of side jaunts you take, weather, and barring any
serious road stoppages (road, bridge closures for storm or accident damage).
One can cover anywhere from 300 miles to more, maybe up to 800 miles a day (or
even *more* if one can safely stay behind the wheel for very long periods of
time with only short rest stops).
I've not driven coast to coast but have driven from San Jose CA to KC MO, back
and forth several times, which according to my info is approx. 1900 miles (each
way).
My car ('96 Mustang GT -- V8, 5sp manual, etc.) used around 78 gallons of gas
each way for which I paid around $120. My car manages around 26+ to 28+ miles
per gallon cruising at freeway speeds but my mileage includes all the driving I
do when I'm on the road, freeway driving and any city driving.
I tend to eat little on the road -- generally I'm short of time because I'm
trying to do the trip in a week's time (or less) -- so I don't spend much on
food. Stopping to eat 3 squares a day can really reduce the number of miles one
can drive. (I do stop for rest breaks but I don't eat during these breaks.)
I driink bottled water and juice and eat light meals -- breakfast at the motel
-- usually included with the room and nothing until I stop at night and maybe
not even anything then depending if I'm not too hungry.
Also, I tend to stay at good but modest motels (Best Western mostly, but I've
stayed in a couple of Super 8 motels (recently built or remodeled) and they were
very nice and a little cheaper than Best Westerns...
Occasionally I'll splurge and stay at a posh hotel (like the Monterey Bay Inn
and Spa -- very nice!) for a night or two, or stop over in Las Vegas and stay at
the MGM Grand (again very nice, for a casino hotel for a change of pace though I
don't gamble) -- I am on these trips on vacation so a little splurging is OK...
Anyhow, I can drive from San Jose CA (or KC MO) to KC Mo (or San Jose CA) in
about 2.5 days, which works out to around 700 miles per day, by making few stops
and and maintaining whenever road/traffic/weather conditions permit the maximum
legal speed.
Say leaving KC Mo I can be in Tucumcari NM that night and the next night be in
Kingman AZ, Needles CA, or even Las Vegas, NV and into San Jose CA middle of the
next day. (For instance, its very close to 520 miles from Las Vegas to San
Jose.)
I keep car in good shape and so far, except one time, I've had no car trouble to
speak of.
One time, driving from San Jose CA to Sacramento, through Nevada (got a speeding
ticket just east of Elko -- cost me $170! Be forewarned!) and into Salt Lake
City got up next AM and found tiny hole in radiator. Lost a day while getting
car repaired at local Salt Lake City Ford dealer.
My advice it to check spare and jack and make sure you know how to change a
tire. (Toss some short lengths of 2x4's into car to use to block wheels of car
if you get flat on incline.)
Carry a working flashlight, extra water, a blanket or two, and make sure car's
serviced before you go. Change oil, filter and other fluids/filters (air/fuel)
if they're due and enjoy your trip.
Oh, I carry a cell phone but my experience is at least in the areas I travel
coverage is spotty.
What is I think very useful is I also have a hand-held CB radio connected to an
external antenna (mounted on roof of car using a magnetic base) which allows me
to hear truck driver conversations and keep abreast of road conditions (traffic
slowdowns due to accidents, weather, road construction (Road Construction Ahead
-- 3 words I hate to see when traveling by car), and smokey (highway patrol,
sheriff, and city police radar/laser *speed trap) positions.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
D. Stussy
> Bot Girl wrote:
> > Thoughts of doing the Jack Kerouac thing and driving cross-country are
> > filling my head, and I need a reality check. How long does it take, etc.?
> > I'm in NY.
> >
> > No way do I believe that driving as opposed to flying will save me money. In
> > fact, it probably costs more because you have meals, gas, tolls, yada-yada.
> > But there is probably no better way to see CA.
> >
> > Anybody here ever do the 3,000 mile trek? A very wide interstate from coast
> > to cast would be ideal. My driving at the moment is limited to local trips.
>
> bio-breaks, etc., the number of side jaunts you take, weather, and barring any
> serious road stoppages (road, bridge closures for storm or accident damage).
>
> One can cover anywhere from 300 miles to more, maybe up to 800 miles a day (or
> even *more* if one can safely stay behind the wheel for very long periods of
> time with only short rest stops).
>
> I've not driven coast to coast but have driven from San Jose CA to KC MO, back
> and forth several times, which according to my info is approx. 1900 miles (each
> way).
I've driven solo from greater NYC to Los Angeles in 4 days. Time of year (i.e.
daylight) and direction could also be a factor. Although most interstates are
nice, level roads, it's always preferrable to drive unfamiliar roads during
daylight.
> ...
>
> What is I think very useful is I also have a hand-held CB radio connected to an
> external antenna (mounted on roof of car using a magnetic base) which allows me
> to hear truck driver conversations and keep abreast of road conditions (traffic
> slowdowns due to accidents, weather, road construction (Road Construction Ahead
> -- 3 words I hate to see when traveling by car), and smokey (highway patrol,
> sheriff, and city police radar/laser *speed trap) positions.
Definently useful, but don't necessarily rely on it as your only
communications. There are too many CB radio idiots now too.
Marc Warden
> <snip>
>
> I've driven solo from greater NYC to Los Angeles in 4 days. Time of year (i.e.
> daylight) and direction could also be a factor. Although most interstates are
> nice, level roads, it's always preferrable to drive unfamiliar roads during
> daylight.
>
> > ...
> >
> > What is I think very useful is I also have a hand-held CB radio connected to an
> > external antenna (mounted on roof of car using a magnetic base) which allows me
> > to hear truck driver conversations and keep abreast of road conditions (traffic
> > slowdowns due to accidents, weather, road construction (Road Construction Ahead
> > -- 3 words I hate to see when traveling by car), and smokey (highway patrol,
> > sheriff, and city police radar/laser *speed trap) positions.
>
> Definently useful, but don't necessarily rely on it as your only
> communications. There are too many CB radio idiots now too.
I like to drive but prefer when crossing vast (relatively speaking) distances, to
stay on the interstates. Don't know why exactly, but feel more comfortable.
I will on occasion stray off of one -- highway 93 north from Needles to Las Vegas or
95 from Kingman AZ to Las Vegas (why do all roads point to Las Vegas?) are a few that
come to mind -- but mostly its freeways for me.
Guess it is because I'm not usually just wandering around but headed someplace and
under some (mostly self-induced) pressure to get 'there'.
There are some CB idiots but at least in my drives, not many. (Around truck stops the
idiots are thicker...)
I usually get in with a group (is 'convoy' passe?) of trucks and can listen in and
hear road/smokey reports coming from oncoming traffic and some times comments that
make about me and my car.
(Driving east of Denver on I70 at night and came up upon truck going way slower than
I thought. I had to slam on brakes to avoid rear ending the truck. I heard the driver
on the air say something like: 'damn 4-wheeler almost knocked my taillights up around
my neck".
I came on the air to reply that I was sorry to give him a fright but wished if he was
going to go that slow (climbing very steep grade leading up to one of those high
passes east of Denver and the truck barely making 10mph in 65mph section) that I wish
he'd have his warning flashers on like I was used to seeing trucks doing when
climbing grades in CA and AZ.
Silence insued...
Anyhow, I can make pretty good time -- once I almost ran out of gas because I got in
with a group of trucks making darn good time coming out of NM across Texas into OK
and after many many miles finally had to tear away (or run out of gas) to fill up
car's tank. But the hours I ran with the trucks we were making real good time.
Sincerely,
MarcW. (It is hard to stop and smell the roses when driving by them at 75mph...)
michael...@wcom.com
to MapsOnUs) can be made in less than 50 hours of "engine time"
(averaging
some 93 km/hr) and I strongly suspect that you could beat 40 hours (averaging
117 km/hr) without great worries of speeding tickets. On I-80, Nevada, Utah,
and Wyoming are posted 75 MPH (120 km/hr). Now, to that you have to add food,
fuel, potty, and rest stops, and traffic delays. It should be a relatively
easy 4 days or a balls-to-the-walls 3 days. Des Moines and Cheyenne stops for
the 3 day trip and Salt Lake, Omaha and Chicago for the 4 day trip.
In article <B6DA6827.797A%i_r...@spamcop.net>, Bot Girl
Joel Garry
>"Doug C." wrote:
I would add, plan for layover days. I've found the best is to drive for
a day, sightsee for a day. YMMV. Don't drive too much, there is a reason
truckers are limited in the hours they can drive per day. If you start seeing
purple taillights, or suddenly wake up hitting the "Botts dots," you are
definitely overdoing it. Even consider getting a device that attaches to
your head and buzzes if you nod off. Remember, in many places motels or
campsites fill up before 4PM. Be sure to have stuff with you for emergencies,
blankets, water, snack food, in addition to the usual flares and first-aid
and such - late spring storms can overwhelm any transportation system.
Motel 6 motel guide can be handy.
I'd add Saguaro park in New Mexico to the list this time of year, and take
a southerly route. One time I was doing Texas to Vancouver at the end
of April, temp dropped from 85 to 25 in an hour of driving out of NE Texas.
Then snowstorms all through Montana/eastern Washington.
Go for it! 3000 miles at 300 miles every other day is 20 days. Add a few
days extra, just because.
--
These opinions are my own.
http://www.garry.to Oracle and unix guy.
mailto:joel-...@nospam.home.com Remove nospam to reply.
Kenneth Crudup
Bot Girl <i_r...@spamcop.net> says:
>Anybody here ever do the 3,000 mile trek?
Next month, I'll be moving a lot more of my Worldly Possessions (tm) from
DC to Cali in a 18-ft Ryder truck. I *really* don't expect the experience
to be "mind-calming".
-Kenny
--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Washington, D.C.
Home1: PO Box 914 Silver Spring, MD 20910-0914 ke...@panix.com
Home2: 38010 Village Cmn. #217 Fremont, CA 94536-7525 (510) 745-8181
Work: See: "Home2". The hell with slow Bay Area drivers! (510) 745-0101
Gordon Fisher
>
> In article <B6DA6827.797A%i_r...@spamcop.net>,
> Bot Girl <i_r...@spamcop.net> says:
>
> >Anybody here ever do the 3,000 mile trek?
>
> Next month, I'll be moving a lot more of my Worldly Possessions (tm) from
> DC to Cali in a 18-ft Ryder truck. I *really* don't expect the experience
> to be "mind-calming".
>
I've done that CA to FLA. I paced myself at about 400 miles a day. I
was tired, but not too tired. Best thing is that the view is great from
up there and at the lower speed, you have plenty of time to watch the
passing countryside. Make sure you keep your music with you. That will
help a lot.
Gordon Fisher
Kenneth Crudup
>> DC to Cali in a 18-ft Ryder truck. I *really* don't expect the experience
>> to be "mind-calming".
In article <9ae0ca$r0a$1...@paxfeed.eni.net>,
Gordon Fisher <happ...@pointhappy.com> says:
>I've done that CA to FLA. I paced myself at about 400 miles a day.
If I only get in 400 mi/day, I must have had truck trouble. I'm going for
4 days end-to-end of 12-hour+ driving days. I've done this before (single-day
trips, though) and I'll have someone with me.
>and at the lower speed, you have plenty of time to watch the passing
>countryside.
Yawn! That's got to be the most depressing part of this whole thing! Endless
hundreds of miles of "countryside".
>Make sure you keep your music with you. That will help a lot.
Oh, that's a given- I can imagine there's lots of dead air, talk-radio
and "both kinds! Country *and* Western!" between DC and Cali.
The Real Bev
>
> >> Next month, I'll be moving a lot more of my Worldly Possessions (tm) from
> >> DC to Cali in a 18-ft Ryder truck. I *really* don't expect the experience
> >> to be "mind-calming".
>
> In article <9ae0ca$r0a$1...@paxfeed.eni.net>,
> Gordon Fisher <happ...@pointhappy.com> says:
>
> >I've done that CA to FLA. I paced myself at about 400 miles a day.
>
> If I only get in 400 mi/day, I must have had truck trouble. I'm going for
> 4 days end-to-end of 12-hour+ driving days. I've done this before (single-day
> trips, though) and I'll have someone with me.
>
> >and at the lower speed, you have plenty of time to watch the passing
> >countryside.
>
> Yawn! That's got to be the most depressing part of this whole thing! Endless
> hundreds of miles of "countryside".
Haul ass to Denver and then see as much of Colorado and Utah as you feel
you can fit in. There is NO law that says you can't do a lot of zigzagging
if you want to...
--
Cheers,
Bev
666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
"I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces
and join their hellish crusade." -- Clarice
Gordon Fisher
>
> >> Next month, I'll be moving a lot more of my Worldly Possessions
(tm) from
> >> DC to Cali in a 18-ft Ryder truck. I *really* don't expect the
experience
> >> to be "mind-calming".
>
> In article <9ae0ca$r0a$1...@paxfeed.eni.net>,
> Gordon Fisher <happ...@pointhappy.com> says:
>
> >I've done that CA to FLA. I paced myself at about 400 miles a day.
>
> If I only get in 400 mi/day, I must have had truck trouble. I'm going
for
> 4 days end-to-end of 12-hour+ driving days. I've done this before
(single-day
> trips, though) and I'll have someone with me.
>
> >and at the lower speed, you have plenty of time to watch the passing
> >countryside.
>
> Yawn! That's got to be the most depressing part of this whole thing!
Endless
> hundreds of miles of "countryside".
I think you've been in the city too long. The infinitely changing
terrain. Subtle shifts of plants and geology. The many unique ways
people do things when left to themselves without corporate direction.
What a symphony.
Kenneth Crudup
Gordon Fisher <happ...@pointhappy.com> says:
>I think you've been in the city too long. The infinitely changing
>terrain. Subtle shifts of plants and geology. The many unique ways
>people do things when left to themselves without corporate direction.
>What a symphony.
You're right- I've been in cities all my life, and I *still* say the
endless miles of "countryside" is still going to bore me silly. I've
seen it from an airplane, good enough for me.
-Kenny, just trying to get from home to here ASAP
The Real Bev
>
> In article <9aq0j9$50l$1...@paxfeed.eni.net>,
> Gordon Fisher <happ...@pointhappy.com> says:
>
> >I think you've been in the city too long. The infinitely changing
> >terrain. Subtle shifts of plants and geology. The many unique ways
> >people do things when left to themselves without corporate direction.
> >What a symphony.
>
> You're right- I've been in cities all my life, and I *still* say the
> endless miles of "countryside" is still going to bore me silly. I've
> seen it from an airplane, good enough for me.
Depends on how you define countryside. I have no idea how many times I've
driven across the country, but cities are places you go when you need to
buy something and I can't imagine anything more beautiful than Utah or
Colorado, unless maybe it's the Canadian Rockies.
If you're talking about Kansas, though, that's very different. Texas is
worse, and I swear to god I never saw even ONE cow there.
--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------
"Don't bother looking for that key. There is no Esc."
-- M. Tabnik
Matthew Thredgold
> driven across the country, but cities are places you go when you need to
> buy something and I can't imagine anything more beautiful than Utah or
> Colorado, unless maybe it's the Canadian Rockies.
>
> If you're talking about Kansas, though, that's very different. Texas is
> worse, and I swear to god I never saw even ONE cow there.
How are you meant to play "Hey Mr. Cow" without a cow ?
see : http://sites.netscape.net/matthewthredgold/cow.htm
The Real Bev
Then you play DISH! with satellite dishes. In some areas you can play
AIRPLANE! with the plane-outlines painted on the road. In AIRPLANE! the
driver, who is generally always watching the road anyway, is frequently
given a handicap.
--
Cheers,
Bev
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Sign on restroom hand-dryer:
"Push button for a message from your congressman."
George Grapman
drive intp small towns.
If you take 80 and have no tape or CD try to time the Reno-Salt Lake
City part for night. Boring and little daytime radio choices.
I always prefer an early a.m. start (4 or 5) with 50 miles done
before breakfast and an early to mid-afternoon stop.
Get a good no-spill cup or container.
--
To reply via e-mail please delete "NOSPAM" from address.
Kenneth Crudup
sfge...@NOSPAMpacbell.net says:
>Unless you love Dennys and fast food take few extra minutes and
>drive intp small towns.
The point of this trip is getting it over with, and Denny's will
do nicely, TVYM. I don't go into small towns, esp. late at night-
too many horror stories from Southern friends and family.
>If you take 80 and have no tape or CD try to time the Reno-Salt Lake
>City part for night. Boring and little daytime radio choices.
There will be none of the music I like on the radio after we leave
major metro areas, so I'm bringing a CD player anyway.
>I always prefer an early a.m. start (4 or 5) with 50 miles done
>before breakfast and an early to mid-afternoon stop.
>Get a good no-spill cup or container.
I hear ya on both of these.
Geoff Miller
ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
> I don't go into small towns, esp. late at night-too many
> horror stories from Southern friends and family.
Oh, for Ghod's sake, Kenny. It's not 1965 anymore.
Geoff
--
"I believe in non-violence, but I think I may be joining the Army
Reserves. Why join? Because the reserves pay reasonably well, and
because I may someday get to participate in the slaughter of
foreigners." --Larry Gridin
fathpinder<spamguard>@yahoo.com
peoples attitudes?
You ain't from around here are ya boy?......hehe.
On 15 Apr 2001 09:42:58 -0700, geo...@u1.netgate.net (Geoff Miller)
wrote:
Geoff Miller
fathpinder<spamguard>@yahoo.com writes:
> For Gods sake Geof, get a clue. It is 2001. How does that
> change peoples attitudes?
Recent events in Cincinnati notwithstanding, the state of race
relations in the U.S. is nowhere near as bad as it was in 1965,
at the height of the civil rights era. Ever hear of the Watts
Riots, or the Long Hot Summer? Tell ya what, spud: pull your
hand out of your pants and go study some 20th Century American
history for awhile, and then we'll talk. Ignorant fuck...
> You ain't from around here are ya boy?......hehe.
Say, you were riding on the back of a turnip truck just a moment
ago, weren't you? Hehe...
Joel Garry
>
>
>fathpinder<spamguard>@yahoo.com writes:
>
>> For Gods sake Geof, get a clue. It is 2001. How does that
>> change peoples attitudes?
>
>Recent events in Cincinnati notwithstanding, the state of race
>relations in the U.S. is nowhere near as bad as it was in 1965,
>at the height of the civil rights era. Ever hear of the Watts
>Riots, or the Long Hot Summer? Tell ya what, spud: pull your
>hand out of your pants and go study some 20th Century American
>history for awhile, and then we'll talk. Ignorant fuck...
Let's see, now we have pattern matching computers that claim to be able
to identify criminals in realtime as they drive by, and well-educated
police that are explicitly trained in constitutionally correct procedure.
Or is it 20 somethings with video-game enhanced limbic systems with guns who
think the computer will never lie?
I still think the video of the Long Beach police putting the, uh, minorities
face through the plate glass window was a classic. Especially since the
fellow having his unintended rhinoplasty was an undercover officer investigating
police brutality complaints...
>
>
>> You ain't from around here are ya boy?......hehe.
>
>Say, you were riding on the back of a turnip truck just a moment
>ago, weren't you? Hehe...
>
>
>
>Geoff
>
>--
>"I believe in non-violence, but I think I may be joining the Army
> Reserves. Why join? Because the reserves pay reasonably well, and
> because I may someday get to participate in the slaughter of
> foreigners." --Larry Gridin
jg
Geoff Miller
joel-...@nospam.home.com (Joel Garry) writes:
> Let's see, now we have pattern matching computers that
> claim to be able to identify criminals in realtime as
> they drive by, and well-educated police that are
> explicitly trained in constitutionally correct procedure.
And your point is...?
> I still think the video of the Long Beach police putting
> the, uh, minorities face through the plate glass window
> was a classic.
So you can trot out a couple of examples in which members
of racial minorities were abused by the police. Big deal.
That indicates a police problem, not a race relations
problem in society at large. Police brutality and other
misconduct doesn't exist only in the context of racial
matters.
Geoff
--
"I saw another video once that featured someone fucking a chicken to
death. I don't think the chicken came." --Basking Dirtsnake
gramamine
the US (clicking my heels together).
I'm hoping this will dull the pain of being dragged behind a truck
after being caught in a small town in Texas after dark.
Stop practicing self-proctology you ass-wipe.
This will be my last post on the subject because it's waaaaaaaay off
topic. Feel free to visit the Yahoo Race Relations Room sometime. It's
an execllent example of racial harmony in this country.
On 17 Apr 2001 08:06:37 -0700, geo...@u1.netgate.net (Geoff Miller)
wrote:
>
>
The Traveler
(gramamine) wrote:
[snip]
> This will be my last post on the subject because it's waaaaaaaay off
>topic. Feel free to visit the Yahoo Race Relations Room sometime. It's
>an execllent example of racial harmony in this country.
You're not basing your judgements on the state of race relations in
this country on the banter in a chat room, are you? :)
--
We have all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of
Shakespeare...Thanks to AOL, we know this is not possible.
Geoff Miller
fathpinder<spamguard>@yahoo.com (gramamine) writes:
> Ok Geoff, you've convinced me that there aren't any racial
> problems in the US
Did I say that? No, I did not. I expressed skepticism that
race relations are in such a state that Kenny or any other
black person needs to have a policy of sticking to the
Interstates and staying out of small towns on his cross-
country drives. If race relations were really that bad,
he wouldn't have to go to small towns away from major
highways in order to find trouble.
> (clicking my heels together).
And your point here is...?
> Stop practicing self-proctology you ass-wipe.
Hey, sport, if you lack the intellect and vocabulary to keep
up your end of a discussion without resorting to insults and
namecalling, it's certainly no skin off _my_ ass. You're only
undermining your own credibility with that stuff, after all.
> This will be my last post on the subject because it's waaaaaaaay
> off topic.
Translation: "This will be my last post on the subject because
I have just enough neurons to understand that I'm
out of my depth -- as I'd be anyplace the sidewalk
was wet, come to think of it."
Face it, spud: If off-topicality really bothered you, you wouldn't
have gotten drawn into this exchange to begin with. You just want
to find a way out of this discussion with your dignity intact.
> Feel free to visit the Yahoo Race Relations Room sometime. It's
> an execllent example of racial harmony in this country.
One can find an acrimonious forum for _any_ subject. That doesn't
prove a thing.
Run along, now. Mommy might want to use her computer pretty soon,
and she'll be cross if she finds you in the way.
The Traveler
<sfge...@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote:
> Unless you love Dennys and fast food take few extra minutes and
>drive intp small towns.
> If you take 80 and have no tape or CD try to time the Reno-Salt Lake
>City part for night. Boring and little daytime radio choices.
Night? But then he wouldn't have the opportunity to appreciate
places like Ely, or Wells, or Winnemucca, or Lovelock even.... ;)
George Grapman
about two hours before so I could watch it. At speech time only a handful of
people left the tables.
The Traveler wrote:
> Night? But then he wouldn't have the opportunity to appreciate
> places like Ely, or Wells, or Winnemucca, or Lovelock even.... ;)
>
> --
>
--
Rick Damiani
>So you can trot out a couple of examples in which members
>of racial minorities were abused by the police. Big deal.
>That indicates a police problem, not a race relations
>problem in society at large. Police brutality and other
>misconduct doesn't exist only in the context of racial
>matters.
Oddly enough, the only folks I hear about who have suffered from
police misconduct are minorities. Are the white folks just keeping
quiet about it you think?
--
A host is a host from coast to coast ..................... Rick Damiani
and no one will talk to a host that's close .... ri...@nospam.paton.com
Unless the host (that isn't close) ......... ri...@nospam.earthlink.net
is busy, hung or dead ..............................NGI# T695 DoD #2659
'99 Triumph Sprint ST (Guppy) ....... '86 Yamaha Radian (Fire Breather)
Geoff Miller
Earlier I wrote:
: So you can trot out a couple of examples in which members
: of racial minorities were abused by the police. Big deal.
: That indicates a police problem, not a race relations
: problem in society at large.
Rick Damiani <ri...@earthlink.net> replies:
> Oddly enough, the only folks I hear about who have suffered
> from police misconduct are minorities.
Oddly enough, that doesn't address what I wrote above. One more
time, with feeling: isolated examples of police misconduct isn't
the same thing as a race relations problem in the nation at large.
It's a police problem, not a problem between citizens of different
races.
Anyone who hasn't spent his life in a Seconal stupor knows that
there's a tendency among police to overstep the bounds of proper
conduct in dealing with people. It's human nature, given the
hardnosed, ass-kicking nature of police work. That's why there
are police commissions and citizen police oversight committees to
be perpetually on guard against that sort of thing. You have a
long row to hoe if you think minorities are the sole target of
mistreatment by the police.
> Are the white folks just keeping quiet about it you think?
With the solitary exception of racial profiling (which some feel
isn't an example of abuse), do you have any evidence that white
people aren't subject to the same sort of police abuse as anybody
else? It's simply not a scandal when it happens to white people;
there's no white equivalent of Jesse Jackson or the NAACP or the
professional anti-discrimination lobby to raise a stink about it.
Geoff Miller
blac...@asphalt.com (The Traveler) wonders:
[gramamine]
> You're not basing your judgements on the state of race
> relations in this country on the banter in a chat room,
> are you? :)
That seems to be gramamine's level of intellectual
sophistication. We're clearly in the presence of
a real rocket scientist, folks...
Gordon Fisher
> isn't an example of abuse), do you have any evidence that white
> people aren't subject to the same sort of police abuse as anybody
> else? It's simply not a scandal when it happens to white people;
> there's no white equivalent of Jesse Jackson or the NAACP or the
> professional anti-discrimination lobby to raise a stink about it.
And it simply doesn't happen to white people as much. Working for a
large aerospace company, the black supervisors would talk about
encounters with the police and the white supervisors simply wouldn't
believe the stories. Since I was young and radically dressed back then,
I could confirm the stories with my own.
It doesn't happen any more to me oddly. Must be the short hair and
wrinkles. But my younger friends tell me enough stories, especially my
ethnic friends to know that its the same old story.
We tried to sweep prejudice under the carpet in the '80s, but it kept
creeping out. Neighbors tried to kick me and a black roommate out of
our house with some outrageous stories told to the landlord, but we
tripped them up in their lies.
I took a college animation course at a liberal university. We were to
do an animation to the tune of "Obladi, Obladah" a song about a poor
Jamaican couple. When it came time to create the characters, only two
people in the whole class voted against making the characters white,
myself and the only black student. These people despite their liberal
words simply couldn't even bring themselves to make a picture of a black
person. No crime, but very telling of attitude.
Rick Damiani
>> With the solitary exception of racial profiling (which some feel
>> isn't an example of abuse), do you have any evidence that white
>> people aren't subject to the same sort of police abuse as anybody
>> else? It's simply not a scandal when it happens to white people;
>> there's no white equivalent of Jesse Jackson or the NAACP or the
>> professional anti-discrimination lobby to raise a stink about it.
>
>And it simply doesn't happen to white people as much. Working for a
>large aerospace company, the black supervisors would talk about
>encounters with the police and the white supervisors simply wouldn't
>believe the stories. Since I was young and radically dressed back then,
>I could confirm the stories with my own.
This was my point. Thanks for making if for me.
Kenneth Crudup
>DC to Cali in a 18-ft Ryder truck. I *really* don't expect the experience
>to be "mind-calming".
Well, it was a 20-ft Penske truck (that lost brake power assist in Elko,
NV, and had to be towed to Fremont) and it took me ~4 days (all night
Thurs early am to Chicago, Chicago to Davenport, IA Thurs night, Davenport
to Laramie, WY on Friday, then Laramie to Elko, NV Saturday, then I was towed
to CA on Sunday.
Kenneth Crudup
>hundreds of miles of "countryside".
... and boy, was I right about that!
Kenneth Crudup
>> horror stories from Southern friends and family.
In article <9bcj2i$l...@u1.netgate.net>, geo...@netgate.net says:
>Oh, for Ghod's sake, Kenny. It's not 1965 anymore.
Then why do I keep hearing new stories?
-Kenny, who was about to tell more than one person in each West Assfuck
to "Take a fucking picture already- it'll last longer!". Don't these
people have TV and/or watch sports and know that non-Whites exist?
Geoff Miller
Earlier I wrote:
: Oh, for Ghod's sake, Kenny. It's not 1965 anymore.
ke...@panix.com (Kenneth Crudup) replies:
> Then why do I keep hearing new stories?
Possibly because the people you hear them from are
hypersensitive, excessively self-conscious and thin-
skinned? I'm sure we've both known people who wore
their ethnicity on their proverbial sleeve, and who
bend over backwards to interpret any and all uncom-
fortable social experiences through the lens of that
ethnicity. Ask yourself something: If you had an
unpleasant run-in with a white person, how quick
would you be to interpret the experience as a black
versus white thing as opposed to the sort of random
asshole-encounters that we all have from time to
time?
I don't know how much time you have for recreational
reading these days in between prowling for poontang,
but I highly recommend Dinesh D'Souza's book, _The
End Of Racism_. I'd be very interested in hearing
your reaction to it one of these days. It's out in
paperback now, so the investment would be minimal.
Kenneth Crudup
>Possibly because the people you hear them from are hypersensitive,
>excessively self-conscious and thin-skinned?
Yeah, that's it.
>Ask yourself something: If you had an unpleasant run-in with a white person
Give me a couple of days; I'll tell you what happened when it does.
-Kenny, more than a bit tired of being told to "suck it up"