Academic Lore: Workload 2nd to Yale
Richard Brandt
> [2] the art school, with acting and film divisions (where Leo would be
> taking classes, natch.) Both divisions are good, the film school
> particularly so - Scorcese, Spike Lee, I think Spielburg, and a number of
> other good directors have graduated from it. Woody Allen dropped out.
Spielberg went to school out West. Unless you mean Spielburg.
Richard "Amblin'" Brandt
--
===Richard Brandt is at http://www.spaceports.com/~rsbrandt===
"A country that can support Herbert Hoover action figures can
certainly get behind this idea." -- Evelyn C. Leeper
Kristin H. Jensen
or "widely believed facts" (is that how Frye of Futurama put it?) of the
sort sometimes booted around here.
At my undergraduate college--namely, Mount Holyoke--I often heard the
following transmitted from student to student and class to class: "You
know, they did a study and found out that Mount Holyoke students have the
second highest workload, after Yale." This line was typically offered in
response to complaints about homework or to the often-heard remark, "My
Amherst class is *so* easy . . ."
Why second highest? Why second to Yale (as opposed to one of the other
Ivies[1])? I suppose these details add to the semblance of voracity, but I
can't imagine where they come from. They were pretty sticky details,
included in every repetition of the factoid that I ever (over)heard.
I heard the "second highest workload" line throughout my time as an MHC
student ('95-'99), often attributed to a study which the ubiquitous "they"
had conducted "a year or two ago." I've never seen reference to any such
study in print, and doubt I ever will. The factoid's combination of
specificity (second to Yale) and vagueness (who did the study? when? how
did other schools rank?), as well as its obvious comforting function
("We're not whiners, we really are working hard, and we should be Velma
and Smith should be Daphne, nyaaah") convince me that it is very likely
apocryphal, or at best a distortion of long-out-of-date facts.
What I want to know now is whether this factoid, like the library legend
[2] and other academic lore, thrives on other campuses as well.
Kristin "piling higher and deeper now" Jensen
[1] Which everyone knows are Harvard, Columbia, Purdue, Caltech, Vassar,
and Grinnell.
[2] Architect didn't account for weight of books, etc blah blah--told at
MHC of the giant brick pe^H^H high-rise library at UMass (as discussed in
my early days on AFU).
Colleen M Sullivan
> This little bit is not a proper UL, but would be in the vein of "factoids"
> or "widely believed facts" (is that how Frye of Futurama put it?) of the
> sort sometimes booted around here.
>
> At my undergraduate college--namely, Mount Holyoke--I often heard the
> following transmitted from student to student and class to class: "You
> know, they did a study and found out that Mount Holyoke students have the
> second highest workload, after Yale." This line was typically offered in
> response to complaints about homework or to the often-heard remark, "My
> Amherst class is *so* easy . . ."
I believe I've heard a similar factoid bandied about by Cornell students -
that Cornell, while precieved as the ivy hanging onto the wall by one
slim vine, in fact had the heaviest workload of all.
But in general, may I say, pheh! to the dryness of your rumours. The best
one I've heard during my time at NYU was that Leo[1] was going to be
taking classes at Tisch [2] next semester [3], "....for sure. Heard it
from someone who works at the admisssions office. I swear to god." Of
course the other big rumor at NYU was that they're trying to get into the
Ivy leauge. But that I'm sure is a rumor at every college ranked somewhere
between 5 and 55 on the US News and World Report Scale.
> [1] Which everyone knows are Harvard, Columbia, Purdue, Caltech, Vassar,
> and Grinnell.
Tell that to those whiners at Brown.
cms - the second rumor was the front page of the only good issue the
student newspaper's ever run, the April Fool's of '98, in which it was
claimed that the school was Astroturfing a dump on Staten Island to put in
a football field [4], thus fufilling and Ivy requirement
[1] diCaprio, of Titanic fame. I think that rumor was born out of NYU's
affinity for second-tier celebrities - the children of famous people have
gone here, the odd model, various of MTV's discarded Real Worlders and
Road Rules people, that chick who's on Sabrina the Teenage Witch...
[2] the art school, with acting and film divisions (where Leo would be
taking classes, natch.) Both divisions are good, the film school
particularly so - Scorcese, Spike Lee, I think Spielburg, and a number of
other good directors have graduated from it. Woody Allen dropped out.
[3] it's always next semester, isn't it? I heard that rumor freshamn year;
I'm sure it's being repeated to freshmen now...
[4] NYU has no football team. One can understand why when considering that
up until very recently, they would have been the NYU Violets. (They're
now the Bobcats. But they still wear purple.)
K. D.
On 20 Dec 1999 02:07:11 GMT, "Kristin H. Jensen" <kh...@Virginia.EDU>
wrote:
>This little bit is not a proper UL, but would be in the vein of "factoids"
>or "widely believed facts" (is that how Frye of Futurama put it?) of the
>sort sometimes booted around here.
>
>At my undergraduate college--namely, Mount Holyoke--I often heard the
>following transmitted from student to student and class to class: "You
>know, they did a study and found out that Mount Holyoke students have the
>second highest workload, after Yale."
I am not going to attempt to prove a negative ("There *never* was a
study done..."), but I can attest to having heard several rumors like
this, or similar to it (at several different schools). Rumors such as
"highest" or "second highest" suicide rate, or just about any other
measure of alleged academic stress.
Not to mention that it is btwn difficult and impossible to define, and
therefore measure, "workload" .
I wouldn't believe it.
_KD
Brian Yeoh
> Kristin H. Jensen (kh...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
<snip heavy workload story>
> I believe I've heard a similar factoid bandied about by Cornell students -
> that Cornell, while precieved as the ivy hanging onto the wall by one
> slim vine, in fact had the heaviest workload of all.
I do believe that Cornell does have some pretty heavy going, especially in
comparison to Columbia. I was rather unpleasantly shocked by the laxness
of some courses (and conversely, those courses with rigour slapped me in
the face all the harder) there.
> > [1] Which everyone knows are Harvard, Columbia, Purdue, Caltech, Vassar,
> > and Grinnell.
> Tell that to those whiners at Brown.
Is this time for Yeechang Lee's university primer?
> cms - the second rumor was the front page of the only good issue the
> student newspaper's ever run, the April Fool's of '98, in which it was
> claimed that the school was Astroturfing a dump on Staten Island to
> put in a football field [4], thus fufilling and Ivy requirement
There is but one Ivy requirement that I know of -- being established
before the Revolution. Unless this too should happen to be folklore.
Nonetheless, should this not be going to alt.folklore.college?
Brian "slinking alumn since 1998" Yeoh
It was as if even the most intelligent person had this little blank
spot in their heads where someone had written: "Kings. What a good
idea." Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw. It
was its tendency to bend at the knees.
Terry Pratchett, _Feet of Clay_
Lee Rudolph
>At my undergraduate college--namely, Mount Holyoke--I often heard the
>following transmitted from student to student and class to class: "You
>know, they did a study and found out that Mount Holyoke students have the
>second highest workload, after Yale."
Aha! Now that we've got a live Holyoker on the line, maybe I can
get some action on an item that made it into the (late, lamented)
FAQ for our (late, lamented) sibling group, alt.folklore.college,
on the strength of one report (namely, mine), but which never to
my knowledge received independent confirmation. To quote my own
later rephrasing of it elsewhere: "I once overheard two assistant
professors breathlessly informing their department chair (at Mt.
Holyoke College) that their students were convinced that the
distinction between assistant, associate, and full professors
exactly mirrored the terminal degree of the teacher: bachelor's,
master's, doctor's. I don't know who, if anyone, was trying to
fool whom." The assistant professors and chair, if it matters,
were all in the department of mathematics. (I was hanging around
in the department office, waiting to give a talk in the Valley
Geometry Seminar, reading stuff on bulletin boards and eavesdropping
shamelessly.)
So: is that *really* a tale in circulation at Mt. Holyoke?
Lee "terminally degreed" Rudolph
K. D.
On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 02:38:38 -0500, Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Colleen M Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Kristin H. Jensen (kh...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
>
><snip heavy workload story>
>
>> I believe I've heard a similar factoid bandied about by Cornell students -
>> that Cornell, while precieved as the ivy hanging onto the wall by one
>> slim vine, in fact had the heaviest workload of all.
>
>I do believe that Cornell does have some pretty heavy going, especially in
>comparison to Columbia. I was rather unpleasantly shocked by the laxness
>of some courses (and conversely, those courses with rigour slapped me in
>the face all the harder) there.
>
Personal anecdote? Even worse, telling of where the writer went to
school (criticized, earlier, by the AFU Appropriateness Patrol -- does
anyone need a cite?).
<still taking notes and hoping to get this right>
-KD
Meredith Robbins
"K. D." wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 02:38:38 -0500, Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Colleen M Sullivan wrote:
> >
> >> Kristin H. Jensen (kh...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
> >
> ><snip heavy workload story>
> >
> >> I believe I've heard a similar factoid bandied about by Cornell students -
> >> that Cornell, while precieved as the ivy hanging onto the wall by one
> >> slim vine, in fact had the heaviest workload of all.
> >
> >I do believe that Cornell does have some pretty heavy going, especially in
> >comparison to Columbia. I was rather unpleasantly shocked by the laxness
> >of some courses (and conversely, those courses with rigour slapped me in
> >the face all the harder) there.
> >
<I've snipped KD's text so as not to be an enabler>
Does anyone else get that car-accident effect from KD's posts? When you
approach the scene of a car wreck on the other side of the freeway, you
already have a pretty good idea what it's going to look like -- and you
definitely know you're not going to like it. Yet, God help you, you
just can't help slowing down to watch. When I see a post with KD's name
on it, I don't *want* to look. And yet, every time, I do; and, every
time, it's the same ugly, ugly[1] scene. It's a sickness, I recognize
that. And some day soon, I hope to be able to cruise right on by with
both hands on the wheel and my foot firmly planted on the accelerator.
Meredith "But not today, oh Lord, not today" Robbins
[1] Yea, some might even say Loretta Swit-style ugly. Lordy.
--
"...[W]hile it might be funny as hell to plant a cockroach in your
buddy's taco, stabbing him to death just isn't."
-Andrea Jones, alt.folklore.urban
http://www.eclectricity.org might be funny as hell
Ian Munro
> There is but one Ivy requirement that I know of -- being established
> before the Revolution. Unless this too should happen to be folklore.
Patently untrue; Cornell was founded in 1865, and Oberlin in 1833.
> Nonetheless, should this not be going to alt.folklore.college?
Ian "No one goes to alt.folklore.college anymore" Munro
--
"It isn't a 'line of reasoning'; it's a squiggle of flawed analysis and
erroneous conclusion."--Paraic O'Donnell
Deborah Stevenson
On 20 Dec 1999, Ian Munro wrote:
> Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
> > There is but one Ivy requirement that I know of -- being established
> > before the Revolution. Unless this too should happen to be folklore.
>
> Patently untrue; Cornell was founded in 1865, and Oberlin in 1833.
Okay, I'm hooked--Oberlin?
Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Alec Horgan
> Why second highest? Why second to Yale (as opposed to one of the other
> Ivies[1])?
Because Yale students have to take more classes. Most of the Ivies
require 32 courses for graduation, but at Yale it's 36.
Alec
Brian Yeoh
> Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
> > There is but one Ivy requirement that I know of -- being established
> > before the Revolution. Unless this too should happen to be folklore.
> Patently untrue; Cornell was founded in 1865, and Oberlin in 1833.
Hmm. Am I being trolled here? Because I was told that Ezrans have been
around since the 18th century.
Brian "and since when was Oberlin in the Ivy League?" Yeoh
Brian Yeoh
Well, most Columbians need, on average about 37~40 classes to graduate. As
far as I know, that is. 124 credits and an average of 3.33 credits per
course (generous, in my estimation) leaves you at about 37 classes.
I don't know about others, of course.
Brian "needed only 29 classes to graduate" Yeoh
HWM
> Well, most Columbians need, on average about 37~40 classes to graduate. As
> far as I know, that is. 124 credits and an average of 3.33 credits per
> course (generous, in my estimation) leaves you at about 37 classes.
Eh? How do you calculate credits? We've got 'credit weeks' and I need
some 140 to pass my BBA. The 140 (Finnish) credit weeks transfer as 210
ECTS points. We get a certain amount for thesis and the internship and
then you have the basic obligatory stuff and the optional obligatory
stuff (either-or) and the optional stuff you need to sum up 20 of this,
40 of that, something blue etc. Classwise I've done 31 so far, but most
of them have been 1 or 2 cu j-off classes.
BTW the most efficient way to cut the workload is to make one good essay
on something and then pass it through a few subjects. I think my bravure
was a bit on 'Portable Storage Media' I passed through 4 (obligatory
j-off) classes. A presentation for the basics of computing translated
then into three languages as the required 'professional article' did the
trick. _Never_ clean up the hard drive.
Cheers, | De ore leonis libera me, Domine, et a |
HWM | cornibus unicornium humilitatem meam. |
hen...@iobox.fi & http://www.kuru.da.ru
Brian Yeoh
> Brian Yeoh wrote:
> > Well, most Columbians need, on average about 37~40 classes to graduate. As
> > far as I know, that is. 124 credits and an average of 3.33 credits per
> > course (generous, in my estimation) leaves you at about 37 classes.
> Eh? How do you calculate credits? We've got 'credit weeks' and I need
> some 140 to pass my BBA. The 140 (Finnish) credit weeks transfer as 210
> ECTS points. We get a certain amount for thesis and the internship and
> then you have the basic obligatory stuff and the optional obligatory
> stuff (either-or) and the optional stuff you need to sum up 20 of this,
> 40 of that, something blue etc. Classwise I've done 31 so far, but most
> of them have been 1 or 2 cu j-off classes.
Like I said, an average class has 3 credits. Some harder classes (or
longer classes) have 4 credits. East Asian language classes have the most
credits of all -- 5 credits. These roughly correspond to 67 minutes a week
of class time for each credit, though in the case of seminars, this does
not apply.
Therefore in a regular school semester, taking 21 credits leads to
spending about 23 1/3rd hours a week in class, plus ancillary time used to
do unimportant things like review for exams, and homework, etc. Average
students take about 12 credits a semester, which explains why they are
average.
> BTW the most efficient way to cut the workload is to make one good essay
> on something and then pass it through a few subjects. I think my bravure
> was a bit on 'Portable Storage Media' I passed through 4 (obligatory
> j-off) classes. A presentation for the basics of computing translated
> then into three languages as the required 'professional article' did the
> trick. _Never_ clean up the hard drive.
Heh. Sounds absolutely familiar. I did the same thing with my English
classes.
Brian "took about 21 credits a semester[1]" Yeoh
[1] Yes, I am blowing my own horn, even though it's not that spectacular a
deed.
Cheryl Shipman
> There is but one Ivy requirement that I know of -- being established
> before the Revolution. Unless this too should happen to be folklore.
The only Ivy requirement is being a member of the Ivy League, which isn't
an adjective, it's an athletic association.
Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton, Yale
Cheryl "yeah, so I bit on the hook, so what" Shipman
cshi...@sas.upenn.edu
Colleen M Sullivan
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 02:38:38 -0500, Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Colleen M Sullivan wrote:
> >
> >> Kristin H. Jensen (kh...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
> >
> ><snip heavy workload story>
> >
> >> I believe I've heard a similar factoid bandied about by Cornell students -
> >> that Cornell, while precieved as the ivy hanging onto the wall by one
> >> slim vine, in fact had the heaviest workload of all.
> >
> >I do believe that Cornell does have some pretty heavy going, especially in
> >comparison to Columbia. I was rather unpleasantly shocked by the laxness
> >of some courses (and conversely, those courses with rigour slapped me in
> >the face all the harder) there.
> >
> school (criticized, earlier, by the AFU Appropriateness Patrol -- does
> anyone need a cite?).
That's not personal anecdote, not in the context of this newsgroup. I
heard something which seemed ULish about Cornell. Brian offered up
evidence of his own experince that this UL might be true. If your're
one of the people who watched the guy blow up the whale on the beach, and
the beach UL is under discussion, referring to this misadventure, no
matter how amusingly, is a data point, not merely an acedote. If on, the
other hand, this discussion is about smart ckicks not getting any vs.
the blond and well endowed turning 'em away at the doors, and the what
happens to those of both groups, then mentioning your whale thing, no
matter how amusingly, is an irrelevent personal anecdote.
cms - what does happen to those of both groups? If I were of them [1] I
might start a new thread with my persoanl anecdote realting to these
stereotypes...
[1] I'm a brunette, naturally and currently. My other qualifications or
lack thereof ye shall never know...[2]
[2] Well, unless I show up at one of the afu fests
Nina Neudorfer
Meredith Robbins <ma...@columbia.edu> wrote
Does anyone else get that car-accident effect from KD's posts? When you
> approach the scene of a car wreck on the other side of the freeway, you
> already have a pretty good idea what it's going to look like -- and you
> definitely know you're not going to like it. Yet, God help you, you
> just can't help slowing down to watch. When I see a post with KD's name
> on it, I don't *want* to look. And yet, every time, I do; and, every
> time, it's the same ugly, ugly[1] scene. It's a sickness, I recognize
> that. And some day soon, I hope to be able to cruise right on by with
> both hands on the wheel and my foot firmly planted on the accelerator.
Yes! And I even have her killfiled! My disease is so rampant, I check
threads I have no interest in (ex. brown recluse spiders), when I see they
are long and drawn out, and my favorite wags have been posting. Nine times
out of ten I find remnants of KD wrapped around a telephone pole.
--
Nina "apparently the massive mammaries work like air bags "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I am very insulted over your calling me a patsy. I am not gay!"
----seen on an Auctionwatch message board
Phil Edwards
>Personal anecdote? Even worse, telling of where the writer went to
>school (criticized, earlier, by the AFU Appropriateness Patrol -- does
>anyone need a cite?).
>
><still taking notes and hoping to get this right>
You can't imagine how quickly that joke got old. Now shut up, OK?
Phil "there's a good little egotist" Edwards
--
Phil Edwards http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/
Happy to be in K. D.'s killfile
Brian Yeoh
<snip>
> cms - what does happen to those of both groups? If I were of them [1] I
> might start a new thread with my persoanl anecdote realting to these
> stereotypes...
>
> [1] I'm a brunette, naturally and currently. My other qualifications or
> lack thereof ye shall never know...[2]
> [2] Well, unless I show up at one of the afu fests
Which reminds me... anyone interested in 2001?
2000 will probably be a bad, bad year...
Brian "what with planes falling out of skies and all" Yeoh
Alice Faber
Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
> On 20 Dec 1999, Ian Munro wrote:
>
> > Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > There is but one Ivy requirement that I know of -- being established
> > > before the Revolution. Unless this too should happen to be folklore.
> > Patently untrue; Cornell was founded in 1865, and Oberlin in 1833.
>
> Hmm. Am I being trolled here? Because I was told that Ezrans have been
> around since the 18th century.
>
> Brian "and since when was Oberlin in the Ivy League?" Yeoh
I think we may be dealing with a reverse, double troll. From
http://www.ipr.cornell.edu/cufacts/cufacts.htm, we find:
> Founded In 1865 by Ezra Cornell and Andrew Dickson White.
The Oberlin web site is much less helpful. There's no obvious link to a
history of the college or to a FAQ. Searches of the web site (which
somehow kept turning up course syllabi) were extremely unilluminating.
(Search terms: "founding Oberlin" "history of Oberlin") The latter
search turned up a delightful, unexpected, and even ironic fact: the
first football coach of Oberlin College was one John Heisman, legendary
coach and trophy eponym. While searching for more info on Coach Heisman
(to verify the trophy eponymy), I did, however, find the following, at
http://www.oberlin.edu/~presidnt/NSSG/obie_notes.html:
> Oberlin College was founded in 1833 by the Rev. John J. Shipherd. We
> were the first college to adopt an institutional commitment to the
> education of people of color by admitting black students starting in
> 1835. We were also the first men's college to admit women (1837).
> (Women had attended the college all along, but they were not
> permitted to enroll as degree candidates.) We were also the first
> college with co-ed dorms (1970).
So, in answer to Brian's misinformation: Cornell was definitely
post-revolutionary.
And, kudos to IIan for inducing a number of folks who should have known
better to think that they were being trolled when, in fact, he was
telling the truth. Notice that he didn't actually assert that Oberlin
was one of the Ivies. It's as much an Ivy as Grinnell, Purdue, or
Caltech (from the original posting).
Alice " " Faber
--
=====================I don't read crossposts=====================
"Some off topic items are on topic and some are not. That's just
the way it is."--Barbara N clarifies all
***** Check out the goodies at http://www.urbanlegends.com *****
Steve Jones
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:04:28 GMT, kaye...@hotmail.com (K. D.) wrote:
>
> >Personal anecdote? Even worse, telling of where the writer went to
> >school (criticized, earlier, by the AFU Appropriateness Patrol -- does
> >anyone need a cite?).
<piggy-backing on Phil's post>
Geezus! I miss a few days of AFU and K.D. has become a second-stage
newbie?
Did jerryG become an old hat?
Steve "Is there a Dr. H sig file virus?" Jones
David H. Siegel
> > [1] Which everyone knows are Harvard, Columbia, Purdue, Caltech, Vassar,
> > and Grinnell.
There are eight Ivy League schools. You forgot MIT.
>
>
> cms - the second rumor was the front page of the only good issue the
> student newspaper's ever run, the April Fool's of '98, in which it was
> claimed that the school was Astroturfing a dump on Staten Island to put in
> a football field [4], thus fufilling and Ivy requirement
Not an Ivy requirement. Columbia had no football team between 1983 and
1988, and there are those who would say it has no football team now.
More significantly, football didn't exist as such back when the Ivy
League began.
--
David "Roar Lion ...nevermind" Siegel
dh...@columbia.edu
<Webpage Coming Soonish>
"All tautologies are true." -David Kagan
David H. Siegel
>
> On 20 Dec 1999, Kristin H. Jensen wrote:
>
> > Why second highest? Why second to Yale (as opposed to one of the other
> > Ivies[1])?
>
> Because Yale students have to take more classes. Most of the Ivies
> require 32 courses for graduation, but at Yale it's 36.
Not to jump on you or anything, but:
Columbia College requires 124 credits to graduate (To say nothing of the
Core, which produces a workload all its own). To translate this to
classes, I'll tell you that most classes in the College, or accepted by
the College, are either 3 or 4 points, most being 3. Assuming half and
half, that's ~35 courses. Assuming mostly 3pt courses, it's nearly 38.
The core, of course, is monstrous. The only thing we've got easier is
that majors tend to be smaller. CS/Anthropology is, together, 80 pts.
--
David "Suffering through it/loving it[1]"Siegel
dh...@columbia.edu
<Webpage Coming Soonish>
"All tautologies are true." -David Kagan
[1] This love-hate relationship is nigh-universal among both students
and alumni.
Richard Brandt
>
> >On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Colleen M Sullivan wrote:
> >
> >
> ><snip heavy workload story>
> >
> >> I believe I've heard a similar factoid bandied about by Cornell students -
> >> that Cornell, while precieved as the ivy hanging onto the wall by one
> >> slim vine, in fact had the heaviest workload of all.
> >
[note absolute relevance of Brian's riposte]
> >I do believe that Cornell does have some pretty heavy going, especially in
> >comparison to Columbia. I was rather unpleasantly shocked by the laxness
> >of some courses (and conversely, those courses with rigour slapped me in
> >the face all the harder) there.
[note absolute superfluity of K.D.'s reflexive non-sequitur whine]
> Personal anecdote? Even worse, telling of where the writer went to
> school (criticized, earlier, by the AFU Appropriateness Patrol -- does
> anyone need a cite?).
>
> <still taking notes and hoping to get this right>
>
> -KD
You never will. Piss off, fuckwit.
Richard "NTYRT" Brandt
Richard Brandt
> I am not going to attempt to prove a negative ("There *never* was a
> study done..."), but I can attest to having heard several rumors like
> this, or similar to it (at several different schools).
What, you yourself heard it? Would that be a "personal anecdote,"
then?
Richard "Any Number Can Play" Brandt
Viv
:On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 02:38:38 -0500, Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com>
:wrote:
:>On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Colleen M Sullivan wrote:
:>> Kristin H. Jensen (kh...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
:>
:><snip heavy workload story>
:>> [folklore that Cornell has heaviest workload]
:>
:>[Brian's experiences at Columbia compared to reputation of Cornell]
:>
:Personal anecdote? Even worse, telling of where the writer went to
:school (criticized, earlier, by the AFU Appropriateness Patrol -- does
:anyone need a cite?).
:
:<still taking notes and hoping to get this right>
Notes for the Clueless:
1. Your truculence is tedious.
2. A brief reference to one's experience at some place/event topical
to the thread is not to be compared with your usual incapacity to
mentioning an experience in less than mind-numbingly ponderous detail
including every extraneous irrelevant qualifier that pops into your
head.
Vivienne "surprised (really) that you didn't share with us [1] both
your system of taking notes and the equipment you are using, complete
with the history of every computer you've had to date, a comparison
with those computers used by your husband, your sister and the
symphony musicians of your acquaintance, then an explanation of how
you arrived at your current system after describing in excruciating
detail every single other system of note-taking you have ever been
exposed to (probably taking the advice of the eminent professor at the
local music society gala a few years ago and have used his system of
note-taking ever since) and how this one is superior because of its
Latin roots" Smythe
1. This is not an invitation.
--
When you do sarcasm, it's like two hippos dancing a
polka. Sorta ponderous, arencha? ~ Madeleine Page
(applying the clue by four in alt.folklore.urban)
Kristin H. Jensen
> Nonetheless, should this not be going to alt.folklore.college?
Hmn? Sorry. Last I looked (a while ago), alt.folklore.college was a
none-too-prosperous hotdog stand on the sidewalk of a side street off AFU
Plaza. But if Lee Rudolph has been composing a FAQ for
alt.folklore.college, maybe I should revisit it.
Kristin "the thing is, I don't eat hot dogs" Jensen
Kristin H. Jensen
> Kristin H. Jensen <kh...@Virginia.EDU> wrote:
> Aha! Now that we've got a live Holyoker on the line, maybe I can
> get some action on an item that made it into the (late, lamented)
> FAQ for our (late, lamented) sibling group, alt.folklore.college,
> on the strength of one report (namely, mine), but which never to
> my knowledge received independent confirmation.
Glad to be of assistance. If I can. (Incidentally, are you so sure I'm
"live"? I could be the Wilder Ghost, logged on in the guise of an alumna.)
<snip>
> Holyoke College) that their students were convinced that the
> distinction between assistant, associate, and full professors
> exactly mirrored the terminal degree of the teacher: bachelor's,
> master's, doctor's.
I never heard this one. I skeedaddled out of the math department after
fulfilling my distribution with Calc III first semester, but I suppose the
misinformation would not have been limited in circulation to the math
majors. I did encounter some other forms of confusion over professors'
rank. I remember one student who became a bit indignant on discovering
that her favorite prof was a mere "assistant." "But _____ is teaching a
full load of classes" etc etc.
Kristin "Ph.B-" Jensen
Kristin H. Jensen
> But if Lee Rudolph has been composing a FAQ for
> alt.folklore.college, maybe I should revisit it.
Beg pardon. When reading Lee's article the first time around, my eye
somehow skipped over the parenthetical "late, lamented."
Kristin "should I make that a 'viewing' rather than a visit?" Jensen
Brian Yeoh
> Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
> > Nonetheless, should this not be going to alt.folklore.college?
> Hmn? Sorry. Last I looked (a while ago), alt.folklore.college was a
> none-too-prosperous hotdog stand on the sidewalk of a side street off AFU
> Plaza. But if Lee Rudolph has been composing a FAQ for
> alt.folklore.college, maybe I should revisit it.
Oh well, I guess the same thing happened there as did with
alt.folklore.military. Great place, just not such a great place for
folklore and stories.
Brian "kinda miss it" Yeoh
HWM
> Like I said, an average class has 3 credits. Some harder classes (or
> longer classes) have 4 credits. East Asian language classes have the most
> credits of all -- 5 credits. These roughly correspond to 67 minutes a week
> of class time for each credit, though in the case of seminars, this does
> not apply.
Uhhh, sounds more or less of what we have. I mean some of these 2-3
credit courses require a shitload of papers and group assignments and
whatnot whereas you can slide a 5 credit course if you know the stuff.
> Average students take about 12 credits a semester, which explains why they are
> average.
I think we have a similar tendency, I hoarded something closer to 30
with my 'fast&dirty' but now I'll be finishing the 4 year stuff in 2 and
a half.
For someone totally lost on the subject or with a perverse interest:
http://www.helia.fi/guide99/ ...I'm a BIT.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> At my undergraduate college--namely, Mount Holyoke--I often heard the
> following transmitted from student to student and class to class: "You
> know, they did a study and found out that Mount Holyoke students have the
> second highest workload, after Yale."
[snip]
> What I want to know now is whether this factoid, like the library legend
> [2] and other academic lore, thrives on other campuses as well.
We had a version of it at Colorado School of Mines, only ours was
that CSM student workload was the highest in the world. It was easy
to believe, what with an average load of 21 hours a semester, and
with a course of 3 lecture hours and 6 lab hours counting as only 4
semester hours credit, so that most of us were in class about 28
hours a week, not counting evenings and weekends sneaking back
into the labs to finish up. In fact, with most of us having Saturday
morning classes, we usually didn't start our drinking until Saturday
night, and had to stop by Sunday noon so that we could make our
8 am Monday classes. [Time frame ca 1959-62].
Charle Wm. Dimmick, Geol.E. '62
--
http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/dimmick.html
"And some rin up hill and down dale, knapping
the chucky stanes to pieces wi' hammers, like
sae mony road-makers run daft -- they say it is
to see how the warld was made!"
Charles A. Lieberman
Alice Faber
> So, in answer to Brian's misinformation: Cornell was definitely
> post-revolutionary.
Oh, I'm sure it was founded before *some* revolution.
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "I had an exhilarating, deeply moving, sharing mo-
Brooklyn, NY, USA | ment with the woman who brought you into this world"
| --Loomis Farkle gets *nasty*
http://calieber.tripod.com/home.html
Dan Drake
wrote:
>..
>
> At my undergraduate college--namely, Mount Holyoke--I often heard the
> following transmitted from student to student and class to class: "You
> know, they did a study and found out that Mount Holyoke students have the
> second highest workload, after Yale."
In what universe?
I am, _of course_. referring to "universe" in the statistical sense,
related distantly to "universe of discourse", and would not _think_ of
making sarcastic invidious comparisons of Ivy League places to some
where there is a seriously hard workload. Among them, Caltech, the
description of which as Ivy League is the most incredible statement to
appear here since -- well, I guess it's really pretty mild by AFU
standards, so never mind.
--
Dan Drake
d...@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com
Hal Sadofsky
: On 20 Dec 1999, Kristin H. Jensen wrote:
:
: > Why second highest? Why second to Yale (as opposed to one of the other
: > Ivies[1])?
: Because Yale students have to take more classes. Most of the Ivies
: require 32 courses for graduation, but at Yale it's 36.
And their amps go up to 11.
I'd like to see a cite. Most places require a certain number of
credit hours for graduation these days, not a certain number of
course. In lots of universities there is a standard number of credit
hours per course though, so a conversion could be done.
Hal Sadofsky
Yeechang Lee
> : Because Yale students have to take more classes. Most of the Ivies
> : require 32 courses for graduation, but at Yale it's 36.
>
> And their amps go up to 11.
>
> I'd like to see a cite.
Since when has the above sentence become "I don't feel like checking
for myself, even when it could be done in a few moments"? Anyways,
the second paragraph of
<URL:http://www.yale.edu/ycpo/ycps/chapters/chapter1a.html>:
Since 1701 Yale College has offered courses of study leading to
the bachelor's degree. A course is simply a group of students
examining a particular subject under the direction of someone who
has studied it before. Yale College today offers about 2,000 term
courses a year. A student working for a bachelor's degree takes
four or five courses each term, and normally receives the B.A. or
B.S. degree after completing thirty-six term courses or their
equivalent in eight terms of enrollment.
> Most places require a certain number of credit hours for graduation
> these days, not a certain number of course.
As demonstrated above, this does not include Yale, nor Harvard (32
courses), Princeton and Brown (30), Dartmouth (35), or Penn
(32-36). Cornell (120 credit hours) and Columbia (124-128) are the
exceptions.
ObUL:
T. As other present and former Columbia students have pointed
out, a 124-credit hour system when the vast majority of classes are
worth 3 credit hours translates to about 38-40 needed classes.
Yeechang "Only 36 needed, thanks to 15 AP credit hours" Lee
--
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~ylee/>
dr...@panix.com
Does workload necessarily translate into "number of credit hours/classes?"
There was an article in the New York Times a year or so ago
about how incredibly easy it is to get A's and B's at Princeton, and
by implicatoin in the article, Yale and the other Ivies.[1]
Basically the thrust if the article, supported by SAT and entrance
requirements, versus average grades for students was that it was damn
hard to get into the Ivies, but fairly easy once you got there.
So, what is the grade average at Yale?
Andrew
1. The article is tacked to a board outside my office, some
600 miles from my present location. If anyone is still interested,
I can get a cite on January 3d.
Brian Yeoh
> Does workload necessarily translate into "number of credit hours/classes?"
> There was an article in the New York Times a year or so ago
> about how incredibly easy it is to get A's and B's at Princeton, and
> by implicatoin in the article, Yale and the other Ivies.[1]
Like I said, most of the courses I took were disappointingly easy, which
made the challenging ones pretty painful.
My grouse, though, was not so much that the subject matter was difficult,
so much so as it was _cursory_. Yes, yes, I know, as a dedicated student,
I should have gone and searched out information myself, blah, blah blah
but still... I think any class which covers the Tempest in two sittings is
insulting to the subject matter.
> Basically the thrust if the article, supported by SAT and entrance
> requirements, versus average grades for students was that it was damn
> hard to get into the Ivies, but fairly easy once you got there.
You could make the argument that it is fairly easy when you get there
because the people who got in were sufficiently bright. But having heard
too many horror stories about gentleman's C's at Harvard...
Brian "certified Densan" Yeoh
Big Iron5
>> Does workload necessarily translate into "number of credit hours/classes?"
>> There was an article in the New York Times a year or so ago
>> about how incredibly easy it is to get A's and B's at Princeton, and
>> by implicatoin in the article, Yale and the other Ivies.[1]
>
>Like I said, most of the courses I took were disappointingly easy, which
>made the challenging ones pretty painful.
Oh, quit braggin'. <g>
This reminds me of a guy I used to know who trained and otherwise prepared to
join the Navy Seals. He was all psyched when he started but quit after about a
month, claiming they were pussies. Given what I know of the guy and his insane
workout regimen, I belive him (not that the Seals are "pussies" but that this
is why he blew them off).
>
>You could make the argument that it is fairly easy when you get there
>because the people who got in were sufficiently bright. But having heard
>too many horror stories about gentleman's C's at Harvard...
Yeah, the bottom line for a lot of people is, though, that compared to actually
working and being a professional, almost all school environments are a piece of
cake.
Of course, I'm sure that never happens at Yale ...
Mark W. Schumann
>Basically the thrust if the article, supported by SAT and entrance
>requirements, versus average grades for students was that it was damn
>hard to get into the Ivies, but fairly easy once you got there.
I don't know about those so-called Ivies in the east, but the UL around
Grinnell held that it might have been harder to get into
{Yale|Harvard|etc} but it was harder to _stay_ in Grinnell.
One year we had a surfeit of new student enrollments. The college
packed them into dorm lounges until enough quit or flunked out to
rearrange the freshpeople into standardized living quarters. I don't
have specific numbers, but I suppose this qualifies as anecdotal
evidence for the "work you to the point of dropping out" meme.
dr...@panix.com
> But having heard
> too many horror stories about gentleman's C's at Harvard...
Used to be called a "gentleman's D."
Until the Vietnam War meant that students who faile dout got drafted,
so profs raised the grades. Or so the theory goes.
Andrew
ra...@joesbar.cc.vt.edu
> In article <83s1uh$d33$2...@news.panix.com>, <dr...@panix.com> wrote:
>>Basically the thrust if the article, supported by SAT and entrance
>>requirements, versus average grades for students was that it was damn
>>hard to get into the Ivies, but fairly easy once you got there.
> I don't know about those so-called Ivies in the east, but the UL around
> Grinnell held that it might have been harder to get into
> {Yale|Harvard|etc} but it was harder to _stay_ in Grinnell.
Hmm, well, I went to a prospective student[1] presentation at Harvard
a few years ago. One of the statistics which I remember, because it
startled me, was that 98% of the incoming freshman graduate within
5 years. Having listened to this sort of presentation at other
schools I know that to be a very high percentage. In other words,
once you get in, you are almost certain to graduate.
I can see how that sort of statistice could be interpretted as
"it's easy once you get in."
[1] my daughter was the prospective student, not me.
--
*****************************************************************************
* Bill Ranck +1-540-231-3951 ra...@vt.edu *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, Computing Center *
*****************************************************************************
Andrea Jones
Big Iron5 wrote in message
<19991223031412...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
<snip, harder to get into Ivies than to graduate from them>
>This reminds me of a guy I used to know who trained and otherwise prepared
to
>join the Navy Seals. He was all psyched when he started but quit after
about a
>month, claiming they were pussies. Given what I know of the guy and his
insane
>workout regimen, I belive him (not that the Seals are "pussies" but that
this
>is why he blew them off).
>
The ones who quit claiming the program was for "pussies" were usually the
ones who had to ring the bell[1] due to hypothermia or some such, and felt
the need to save face by claiming it was because they were just "too hard"
for the SeALs. I am thus extremely skeptical of any such claim on anyone's
part. Once the full story comes out, it's usually a bit different from the
way the washout tells it.
Andrea "Anyone else remember RawPowerLifter?" Jones
[1] To drop out of BUDS training, you literally ring a bell.
Kristin H. Jensen
> Does workload necessarily translate into "number of credit hours/classes?"
Others may interpret "workload" as they see fit; my understanding of the
"workload" rumor at MHC was that it described some quantity more like the
number of hours spent on homework/studying by the average student in a
week or semester. (I suppose number of classes might be taken to imply
number of hours of homework, but in theory you could have five classes at
Amh^W^W with very little homework to do and have less of a workload than
someone who has four classes each of which requires tons of homework and
studying.)
Kristin
Tired of books and boring classes?
Drop your books, pick up your glasses
And drink a toast
To those who boast
Of mixing Greek and Latin
With a cool Manhattan.
[etc etc etc]
Lee Rudolph
>Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
>> But having heard
>> too many horror stories about gentleman's C's at Harvard...
>
>Used to be called a "gentleman's D."
Cite? A nearby member of the class of '54 says "C" (and that's
also the only way I ever heard it, not that I ever got closer to
Hahvahd than the far end of Mass. Ave., and rather later than 1954,
at that).
>Until the Vietnam War meant that students who faile dout got drafted,
>so profs raised the grades. Or so the theory goes.
^^^^^^
YM "rationalization of the tale."
Lee "and when and where *I* was an undergraduate, there was none of
this crap about `letter grades'--from 1+ to 4- was good enough
for us, and it should be good enough for you youngsters" Rudolph
Mark W. Schumann
>Hmm, well, I went to a prospective student[1] presentation at Harvard
>a few years ago. One of the statistics which I remember, because it
>startled me, was that 98% of the incoming freshman graduate within
>5 years. Having listened to this sort of presentation at other
>schools I know that to be a very high percentage. In other words,
>once you get in, you are almost certain to graduate.
>
>I can see how that sort of statistice could be interpretted as
>"it's easy once you get in."
Goodness gracious. I doubt Grinnell graduated more than about 80%
of my incoming class. Possibly quite a bit fewer.
[1] NMF
R H Draney
> Brian Yeoh <by...@panix.com> wrote:
> > But having heard
> > too many horror stories about gentleman's C's at Harvard...
>
> Used to be called a "gentleman's D."
>
> Until the Vietnam War meant that students who faile dout got drafted,
> so profs raised the grades. Or so the theory goes.
Don't know about your school days, TWIAVBP and all that, but when I was
officially engaged in getting myself educated, a D was a *passing*
grade...not that one would be all that proud to have a whole passel of
them on one's transcript, mind you....r
--
"You are not expected to believe that I really have vibrating
rhubarb in my house."--Peter Deutsch