Bab 5 books, comics
C. Neil Milton
January), I was wondering if the books or the comic series are worth
picking up? Are they being overseen by JMS or are they seperate stories
inspired by the television show?
Travers Naran
Yup. JMS keeps an eye on them. The comic books are worth collecting from
issues 1-8 and 11. Why ignore 9 & 10? It just wasn't Peter David's
best work. Shame really, he can write some decent stuff.
--
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Travers Naran Computing Science Graduate and (Unemployed) Programmer
tna...@direct.ca, na...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca, na...@sfu.ca
"Stand back... I'm a Programmer!"
David Henderson
Alan D Earhart
Travers Naran <tna...@direct.ca> wrote:
>C. Neil Milton (colt...@postoffice.ptd.net) pontificated:
>> Being new to the Babylon 5 universe (I started watching the show in
>> January), I was wondering if the books or the comic series are worth
>> picking up? Are they being overseen by JMS or are they seperate stories
>> inspired by the television show?
>
>issues 1-8 and 11. Why ignore 9 & 10? It just wasn't Peter David's
>best work. Shame really, he can write some decent stuff.
>
If you were going to get just one of them (say, to try) then I would
suggest the last one, #11. It's written as informational literature
from the PsiCorp and I thought it was very well done.
Also, you should be able to find it still at cover in one of your local
comic shops.
Erik W. Cornilsen
David Henderson
(an article, followed by)
>^_
But I didn't write that Control-Underline at the end. I've noticed that
articles "Apprived: schi...@spock.usc.edu" have a control-underline at
the end of them... it's my guess that there's either something with the
software or the system that adds this character.
It doesn't affect my system, but I suspect that some browsers might not
like it much.
-- ___
_| |_ David Henderson dav...@squirrel.bradley.edu
[_ _] --------------------------------------------------
-|- __| | -|- BU Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship Home Page:
_,|--~ |_|~~--_|__ http://rhf.bradley.edu/~davidh/ivcf.html
John Schilling
>In <4k17dr$o...@cegt201.bradley.edu>, I wrote:
>(an article, followed by)
>>^_
>But I didn't write that Control-Underline at the end. I've noticed that
>articles "Approved: schi...@spock.usc.edu" have a control-underline at
>the end of them... it's my guess that there's either something with the
>software or the system that adds this character.
>It doesn't affect my system, but I suspect that some browsers might not
>like it much.
Oops. My software is inserting those somewhere along the line, for some
inexplicable reason. Is a trivial matter to add a few lines to the
moderation macros to remove the offending characters, so the problem
should be solved by the time you see this.
If this, or any other similar problem, recurs, do not hesitate to let us
know. The body of a post is not supposed to be changed by moderation at
all, with the very specific exceptions of inserted spoiler protection or
brief, clearly-identified comments. Strange control characters shouldn't
be there, and everything you originally wrote *should*.
--
*John Schilling * "You can have Peace, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * or you can have Freedom. *
*University of Southern California * Don't ever count on having both *
*Aerospace Engineering Department * at the same time." *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * - Robert A. Heinlein *
*(213)-740-5311 or 747-2527 * Finger for PGP public key *
Robert Fisher
Milton) wrote:
>Being new to the Babylon 5 universe (I started watching the show in
>January), I was wondering if the books or the comic series are worth
>picking up? Are they being overseen by JMS or are they seperate stories
>inspired by the television show?
Well, I've been reading the first book (VOICES). I haven't seen the comic.
The ideas behind the books are either from JMS or approved by him.
Unfortunately, he doesn't have much time to devote to double-checking the
manuscripts, so the books aren't as consistant as the series.
I've got minor quibbles with VOICES. The author appearantly has never
actually watched the show, since all the doors on B5 are described as
conventional doors instead of the show's nifty pocket doors. He tells us
the tempature on Mars is extremely hot (which it isn't in the *real* 20th
century), but doesn't explain why this would be. Stuff like that.
He *does* do an admirable job of getting the character's right. It's rare
to find a character in this book saying or doing something you couldn't
imagine the character on TV doing.
Hope that helps...
--
Robert Fisher rfi...@zilker.net
Software Developer rob...@modeloffice.com
Renegade Software/ModelOffice http://www.modeloffice.com
Technomage Wannabe
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On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Robert Fisher wrote:
> I've got minor quibbles with VOICES. The author appearantly has never
> actually watched the show, since all the doors on B5 are described as
> conventional doors instead of the show's nifty pocket doors. He tells us
> the tempature on Mars is extremely hot (which it isn't in the *real* 20th
> century), but doesn't explain why this would be. Stuff like that.
is this the same book where there's a psycorp convention when we already
know from the series that psycorp tries to keep their people apart to
keep them from figuring things out and conspiring against them?
Becky
REPLY TO: rleh...@uiuc.edu
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~rlehmann
Stephen Moore
>Being new to the Babylon 5 universe (I started watching the show in
>January), I was wondering if the books or the comic series are worth
>picking up? Are they being overseen by JMS or are they seperate stories
>inspired by the television show?
They are, to some extent, overseen by jms...
What you ought to read?
"Clark's Law", a novel set at the end of season 2, it is (rarely for TV
novels) superb...
The comics, issues 5 to 8. These are the best drawn, the best written, and
the most relevant. Just make sure you've seen up to "Messages from Earth"
first, as they link strongly to it (apparently).
Miss out on "Voices" the novel, I've been at it for over a year, and can't
finish it, it's so dull (sorry John Vornholt, I usually like your work).
--
* * * * Steve : smo...@btinternet.com * * * *
Daniel Pawtowski
Robert Fisher <rfi...@zilker.net> wrote:
>
>conventional doors instead of the show's nifty pocket doors. He tells us
>the tempature on Mars is extremely hot (which it isn't in the *real* 20th
>century), but doesn't explain why this would be. Stuff like that.
>
something like this:
The author knew that Mars was cold, and described Mars as cold, giving
degrees in the Kelvin scale (For those who don't know, degrees Kelvin
are equal to degrees Celcius minus 273. That is, Absolute zero = 0 K =
-273 C. It's a common temperature scale used by engineers, physicists, and
the like).
After the book was finished, an editor came along who had never heard of
the Kelvin scale. He basicly took one look, said "Tisk, tisk. I hate it
when authors try to invent their own temperature scale, B5 is supposed to
be realistic". He then did a global search and replace to change all
"Kelvins" to "Centigrade". *Without* changing the numbers AT ALL, effectively
raising the temperature of Mars by 273 degrees. When "120 K" suddenly
becomes "120 C", Mars goes from a freezer to a hothouse.
Another editor came along, sees references to characters freezing to
death at Centigrade temperatures that would boil water. He then decides
that "Gee, the original author must be one of those Americans who dosen't
understand the metic system", and changed all references of characters
"freezing to death" into characters "baking to death".
The book gets printed. The author buys a copy at a bookstand, opens
it up to the part where Bester is about to freeze, and sees him about to
bake. The author then hits the roof, since he knew full well that Mars
is COLD, and WROTE IT THAT WAY. But it's too late to change, the printing
presses have already made thousands of copies.
I'm sure that somebody on the group will jump up and point out the
errors in the above story that I know I made.
While you're at it, ask JMS to tell you the story of the Network exec
who had never heard of Captain Ahab. It's a doozy.
Daniel Pawtowski
dpaw...@vt.edu
GRSwanson
Technomage Wannabe <li...@arh0248.urh.uiuc.edu> writes:
>spoiler space in case you don't want the books ruined for you!
>!
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>On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Robert Fisher wrote:
>
>> I've got minor quibbles with VOICES. The author appearantly has never
>> actually watched the show, since all the doors on B5 are described as
>> conventional doors instead of the show's nifty pocket doors. He tells
us
>> the tempature on Mars is extremely hot (which it isn't in the *real*
20th
>> century), but doesn't explain why this would be. Stuff like that.
>
>is this the same book where there's a psycorp convention when we already
>know from the series that psycorp tries to keep their people apart to
>keep them from figuring things out and conspiring against them
I wish the books would keep the same kind of quality that the comics
did... For example book 5 features the "Fermi's Angels" a group of
christian biker physisists who wreak havok on the station... Is this
ridiculous or what? And book 4 is written as if it were a real book,
complete with pseudoquotes, forwards, epilogues, etc... The guy was taking
things a wee bit to seriously, not to mention the fact that everyone in
the book spoke with an Austrailian accent...
Not to say that reading the books is a bad thing... There are little
important tidbits that should be discussed... Like what were Mordens
motives for saving Garibaldi? And does anyone else remember what happened
to N'grath in that one book? Did he die or not? I can't remember, and the
book was to painful to read again...
Gerry
ko...@cloud.com
Gharlane of Eddore
dpaw...@access.digex.net (Daniel Pawtowski) writes:
>
> The explanation for that one has appeared in rastb5 before. It goes
>something like this:
No, it doesn't. The series of events you describe is FABRICATION.
> The author knew that Mars was cold, and described Mars as cold, giving
>degrees in the Kelvin scale (For those who don't know, degrees Kelvin
>are equal to degrees Celcius minus 273. That is, Absolute zero = 0 K =
>-273 C. It's a common temperature scale used by engineers, physicists, and
>the like).
It's spelled "Celsius."
> After the book was finished, an editor came along who had never heard of
>the Kelvin scale. He basicly took one look, said "Tisk, tisk. I hate it
>when authors try to invent their own temperature scale, B5 is supposed to
>be realistic". He then did a global search and replace to change all
>"Kelvins" to "Centigrade". *Without* changing the numbers AT ALL, effectively
>raising the temperature of Mars by 273 degrees. When "120 K" suddenly
>becomes "120 C", Mars goes from a freezer to a hothouse.
FABRICATION.
> Another editor came along, sees references to characters freezing to
>death at Centigrade temperatures that would boil water. He then decides
>that "Gee, the original author must be one of those Americans who dosen't
>understand the metic system", and changed all references of characters
>"freezing to death" into characters "baking to death".
FABRICATION.
> The book gets printed. The author buys a copy at a bookstand, opens
>it up to the part where Bester is about to freeze, and sees him about to
>bake. The author then hits the roof, since he knew full well that Mars
>is COLD, and WROTE IT THAT WAY. But it's too late to change, the printing
>presses have already made thousands of copies.
FABRICATION.
> I'm sure that somebody on the group will jump up and point out the
>errors in the above story that I know I made.
>
Count on it.
At the time the book was written, John Vornholt did not know the
difference between Fahrenheit, Centigrade, and Kelvin scales.
He's *STILL* not clear on the difference, or conversion constants.
He looked up Mars' surface gravity and temperature, decided that
200-275 degrees Celsius was *HOT*, like desert with water-boiling
heat, and has specifically acknowledged this in the B-5 topics
on-line.
Vornholt had, and has, no scientific background to speak of; this
is borne out by a GREAT many things in his text.
On the plus side, Vornholt has also been courteous and apologetic
about this stuff, and NOT tried to explain it away; he simply
accepted responsibility, apologized, and promised to do better.
(The third book, his second B-5, *is* a bit better, but not
good enough to qualify as competent SF.)
The concept of "global replace" is a convenient out, but not
applicable, since Vornholt has stated that his publisher was
not set up to accept electronic submissions or corrections,
and that the work was done ON PAPER, and that any subsequent
reprints would not be correctable without great hassle, due
to Dell's printing setup.
(One wonders if they were actually still using PLATES....)
NONE of the editor(s?) working on the text knew, or know, Jack <Exon>
about science, SF, Mars, temperature, continuity, internal coherence,
or logic... or they'd have caught the other big howlers in the book.
It is unlikely, considering the staffing and competence of that
organization, that more than one "editor" ever even saw the
manuscript.
(Actually, considering the quality of the first three B-5 books,
I consider it highly probable that no one sober ever even saw
the things before they were being printed, but that's just me.)
Lastly, JMS has specifically stated that he read, and approved, the
final manuscripts, and that the books had to be approved in his
office before printing. Thus, he has chosen to bear the ultimate
responsibility for the unutterable putridity of the books.
Don't excuse Vornholt on the purported stupidities of a set of
stipulatedly extant "editors."
Vornholt screwed up, big time, in public, because he didn't get
his work checked by anyone who'd passed seventh-grade general
science; some editor passed it, and then Joe Straczynski put
his stamp of approval on it because *HE* thinks technical
advising is a matter of opinion, and unnecessary to the show
or related products.
The miserably mediocre quality of the B-5 books is a reflection
of the franchise-book publishing industry, where it is accepted
that anything with a series logo on the cover is an assured sale.
While there have been good, readable, well-crafted "TREK" books,
they are a minute percentage of the total published wordage in
the "Trek" franchise, all of which sells without regard to quality.
DELL PUBLISHING is one of the major problems here; when the
franchise publication contract allowed Dell to print B-5
books, instead of querying competent SF writers, Dell went
with franchise-specialist hack typists who had only prior
publications with the kind of sub-pulp quality that the fans
of "TREK" and "EARTH 2" found acceptable.
NONE of the first few writers contracted had any legitimate
SF background, NONE of the editors were competent to oversee
the development of SF product, and JMS himself blew it badly.
-------------------------------------------------------------
S.M. Stirling's "BABYLON 5" book is coming out soon, if it's not
out already. Keep an eye out for it, and unless someone really
dense messed with the manuscript, I expect to see a book that's
actually worth reading.
=======================================================================
|| "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the ||
|| the part of the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen. ||
|| Otherwise it's Fantasy." --- John W. Campbell, Jr. ||
=======================================================================
Nick O.
: At the time the book was written, John Vornholt did not know the
: He's *STILL* not clear on the difference, or conversion constants.
: He looked up Mars' surface gravity and temperature, decided that
: 200-275 degrees Celsius was *HOT*, like desert with water-boiling
: heat, and has specifically acknowledged this in the B-5 topics
: on-line.
Err, Oh-Brain-in-a-Jar, 200-275 degrees Celsius *is* hot. Maybe
it's the normal temperature in your jar but for us -- pink squishy
mortals -- 200 Celsius is rather hot... (Should we count it as GoE's
Third Error of 1996? :-))
Nick O.
David Mitchell
>>>He looked up Mars' surface gravity and temperature, decided that
>>>200-275 degrees Celsius was *HOT*, like desert with water-boiling
>>>heat, and has specifically acknowledged this in the B-5 topics
>>>on-line.
<ni...@cs.arizona.edu> wrote:
>> Err, Oh-Brain-in-a-Jar, 200-275 degrees Celsius *is* hot.
"Steven Miale" <smi...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>Yes, but not 'desert with water-boiling heat' hot, but 'instant
>death likely' hot. 200-275C is roughly 400-500 degrees Fahrenheit.
>Anybody know how long a human could survive in that kind of heat?
About as fast as a cigarette at the Betty Ford Clinic. ;)
dmi...@calweb.com <David Mitchell>
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a
man's character, give him power." Abraham Lincoln
"Knowledge is *not* Power: Power is but *one* attribute
of Knowledge." D. Mitchell
Gharlane of Eddore
.....*PURPORTEDLY* wrote:
>
> He looked up Mars' surface gravity and temperature, decided that
> 200-275 degrees Celsius was *HOT*, like desert with water-boiling
> heat, and has specifically acknowledged this in the B-5 topics
> on-line.
^^^^^^^ That word, "Celsius," was "KELVIN"
when it left my workstation. I had not been
aware of this blatant distortion of reality,
due to the fact that this entry never made it
*back* to *MY* News server... so I thought
the entry had simply been rejected until I
began seeing E-mailed comments from Moderators...
Imagine my reaction when I started to see
quotes from it in other peoples' entries, and
in needling E-Mail.... well, I've done with
waiting for it to show up here, so I could see
what the final version of the entry looked like,
and all I'll say on the subject is that I
bluidie welle KNOW that water freezes around
0 degrees Celsius, at least at anything like
standard pressure, and boils around 100...
and I do *not*, as a rule, refer to "200-275
degrees Kelvin" as "hot" in relation to human-
survivable environment.
Remember, I'm one of the folks who was
screaming about the errors in "VOICES!"
I think someone's messing with my feed and
giggling like heck, is what I think. And no,
I don't think it was any of the Moderators, I
think it happened a LOT closer to home.
I suspect I'd better stop swiping jelly beans
from the local SysGuru's office before I become
even more of an inadvertant fool.
<ni...@cs.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
> Err, Oh-Brain-in-a-Jar, 200-275 degrees Celsius *is* hot.
Agreed. Vociferously. See note above.
"Steven Miale" <smi...@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Yes, but not 'desert with water-boiling heat' hot, but 'instant
> death likely' hot. 200-275C is roughly 400-500 degrees Fahrenheit.
> Anybody know how long a human could survive in that kind of heat?
With wooden shoes, and no clothing, and normal oxynitrogen air at
standard pressure and humidity, long enough to cook a steak held
on a wooden fork; this was a standard stunt in the old days, before
modern safety regs eliminated certain types of stunt performances.
(As long as your sweat glands are in good shape and you don't have
a cardiac problem, or dry out your breathing passages, you can
survive a surprising length of time before you pass out, fall down,
and die of burns. Think of fire-walkers.)
...And I tend to think Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego just loaded
up on their Gator-Ade (tm) before hitting the furnace.....
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
> NONE of the editor(s?) working on the text knew, or know, Jack <Exon>
I thought we were using a different senator for that word...
---
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